OSAS doctrine denies the faith

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
No, I really dont have to continue quoting what he said because everyone here knows very well what is said there as its one of those verses here that get people slandering you.

So you really dont need to continue to quote it because it does not violate the context or the other verses which agree in the same and keeps to the same theme of the one picture.

I have adressed the same before on other threads and was verbally vomitted on and words put in my mouth and falsely accused according to the same, I am certainly not interested in taking up any conversation with you.

I have no problem with any of the verses I posted, if you do, thats between you and God.
no my friend you do have a problem.

You cause John to contradict himself by your interpretation of your passage, there is no getting around that. The word of God can not contradict. otherwise it is a useless document which is meaningless



 
Dec 12, 2013
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You call what the scriptures say would happen a lie, I call it the Truth.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

I speak the Truth according to the words of God. :)
Here I will post your accusatory LIE once more.....go cut and paste where anyone who believes in eternal security has said, implied or taught what you are accusing of......or be found a liar! Rather simple.....

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

They want to hear feel good preachers who tell them they can sin all they want
and still be "IN CHRIST" WHICH IS A LIE.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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A dog can't return to its vomit, without still being a dog. That's stumbling at the very concept of being a new creature, in Christ, by the Spirit of Christ.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Not maybe, might get, but know that you have. It's hard to conceive of a "faith" that doesn't trust the word of God.
Amen! Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Yes, notice it says every branch "IN ME" meaning they were once "IN CHRIST" but did not bring forth fruit.
John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit
he taketh away
:

And if we do not abide in the Word, in the belief of what the Word says is true, then what happens

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me,
he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them,
and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


Same as I showed in my OP....
Romans 11:20-22 “Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.”

That sure sounds like a
warning to abide in faith doesn’t it? For we stand by faith, but some say you cannot fall from the faith, which is contrary to the words of God.
Jn 15:1-6
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
KJV

I believe that this passage attempts to deal with the person who prays a prayer asking Jesus to be their Savior without accepting Jesus as Lord.

I believe that the operative premise here is that the indwelling Holy Spirit does produce fruit in EVERY true believer.

Gal 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
KJV


If we look at the parable of the tares, we see that the tares look like believers but do not bear good fruit.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What she posted was what God says, how is God's words a lie? Here is her post...

Originally Posted by DesiredHaven
We are to abide in the doctrine of Christ,

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.

He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned

John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

John 15:2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

The Father removes the branches that bear no fruit and men gather these branches

Psalm 125:5
As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, (((( the LORD ))))) shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity: but peace shall be upon Israel. [ end quote]

You people are calling what God says is true a lie, you say a person cannot fall away, Jesus said people would fall away which I've proven by scripture. But you say Gods words are lies. WOW!

lol. You people do not get it do you?

John said whoever is born of God can not sin, thus they will abide in God. John did not change his mind a few paragraphs later and claim one who is born of God can STOP abiding in God. he would be contradicting himself.

John said it and made it clear. whoever transgresses has never seen god or known God. What is so hard to understand that they were never saved to begin with??
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Wow, so many equally-intelligent, well-meaning people, all reading from the same set of writings .....
how many vastly different and conflicting conclusions.
And all totally convinced they have "the Truth".

What a pity things could not have been made clearer.
Thank you for coming around to pontificate, you being so unlike other men. One would suppose we can only conclude there's no truth, attested to by your vast contribution of truth. Any other nothings to offer?
 
Jan 7, 2015
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Washed/cleaned up on the outside doesn't mean washed/cleaned up on the inside. Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But true believers have escaped the corruption (Strongs #5356 - different Greek word) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk) that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4). Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside. True believers have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. The pig returned to the ways of the world, and sin, and filth, because by nature it was still a pig and did not become a sheep. Temporary self moral reformation is no substitute for regeneration.
WOW, you guys try sooooo hard not to believe what the scriptures plainly say. Please spare me all the word twisting and wrangling with the Truth. LOL !!!!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
WOW, you guys try sooooo hard not to believe what the scriptures plainly say. Please spare me all the word twisting and wrangling with the Truth. LOL !!!!

it sure does not say what you claim it does.

if you do not believe in the assurance of Gods salvation. you do not have faith in God. period!
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Here I will post your accusatory LIE once more.....go cut and paste where anyone who believes in eternal security has said, implied or taught what you are accusing of......or be found a liar! Rather simple.....

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

They want to hear feel good preachers who tell them they can sin all they want
and still be "IN CHRIST" WHICH IS A LIE.
Always the same. Nobody has ever said what they claim. Again, devil means slanderer. It's a tell, the point I've been trying to make of the spirit behind it all. The doctrines and approach are textbook Satanic.
 
Dec 26, 2014
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being a member of the flock is free (it is a gift).

wandering off from the flock to perish is free. anyone can do it.

Oh NOOOOO!!! There is that Shepherd again. He just won't let me wander off and perish. What am I to do now?
don't worry. he will let you perish.
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
WOW, you guys try sooooo hard not to believe what the scriptures plainly say. Please spare me all the word twisting and wrangling with the Truth. LOL !!!!
Fools, liars, false teachers, and Judaizers accuse others of doing what they themselves do. In counseling, we call that "Deflection: When the individual is in group therapy and consists of redirecting attention to another group member so as to avoid negative feelings and attitudes about self."

(It is often also accompanied by nervous laughter.)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Oh, I get it. She posted all scripture (which is the words of God) and you called it a lie. WOW!
lol. I can post scripture and make it say anything also.

posting scripture and making it agree with all of scripture is demanded by God. we can not just take a passage out of context and call it truth.

She did not prove her point with the scripture she posted. I proved that by posting the scripture which contradicts what she says and believes..

so again, you do not get it.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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WOW, you guys try sooooo hard not to believe what the scriptures plainly say. Please spare me all the word twisting and wrangling with the Truth. LOL !!!!
Okay then. Just go ahead and ignore the distinction between pollutions/defilements (Strongs #3393) in 2 Peter 2:20 and corruption (Strongs #5356 - different Greek word and definition) in 2 Peter 1:4 and just believe what you want to believe. ;)
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Amen! Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
Revolving door analogy, how prescient! And when you put the pieces together, they portray an incompetent and impotent God you can't trust, along with the silliness of a gospel that can save nobody, then, if perfection in the flesh is the standard. They have an empty heaven.
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest

Desired,



Heb 3:12
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
KJV


I can see how this appears to speak against OSAS. I don't interpret it that way. I see this as a differentiation between intellectual assent and true faith. The writer of Hebrews is saying that belief that doesn't include trust is not saving faith.


unbelief ἀπιστίας means without trust. The same issue tears apart marriages and leads to divorces.

Jas 1:5-8
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
KJV


James is addressing the same issue here.
Yes, looked up unbelief

Unbelief.png

Root

Unbelief root.png

Speaks of making the LORD our trust also yes


Psalm 40:4 Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

And speaks of one heart departing from the LORD here

Jerm 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

These two of departing from the Living God

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Jerm 17:13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed,
and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

Let me post context as well so folks will know I can read in context


Unbelief Hebrews.png
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Titus 1:16 KJV

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.