Sold under sin

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Jan 7, 2015
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#1
In Romans 7:14 we read “For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.” You ever wonder why Paul used that phrase “sold under sin?” Well I believe Paul used the phrase to give us a clue and insight into what the mark of the beast is in Revelation represents, and how all those who have it also buy and sell souls in a spiritual sense. Much like masters and merchants who also sold servants in the slave trade days, these were also bought and sold being under bondage.

As a matter of fact in Revelation18:13 we see the merchants of the earth were selling slaves, and souls of men.

But in the spiritual sense these servants are slaves to sin, and are also in bondage to the ways of the world, much like the children of Israel were in bondage in Egypt. Paul mentions this bondage in Romans 8:23 as bringing one into captivity to the law of sin, speaking of the flesh. Just as our first man (Adam) is flesh, and is sold under sin when iniquity entered into man and into the world. (mystery of iniquity)

So those who
sin, are in fact servants of sin and also in captivity, or in bondage in this wicked world. But Jesus sets us free from sin, as it is also written He led captivity captive in
Psalm 68:18. Now this concept of being a servant to sin and exchanging ones soul for sin is not foreign to scripture. Even Esau sold his firstborn birthright to serve his own belly for some red pottage, which is also symbolism of sin.

Jesus also said in
Matthew 16:26 “For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?” So again you see these servants of sin are willing to sell themselves out for sin, or give up the possession of their souls for sin. Jesus said John 8:34 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.”

Just as it is written in
1 John 3:8 He that commits sin is of the devil;…” And by your master, according to whom you serve you are also marked, just as Cain was marked because of sin. Also in Job 7:20 “I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?” Job 10:14 “If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.”

So as Jesus said whosoever commits
sin is a servant of sin, and a servant abides not in the house for ever: but the Son abides ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.” There is an interesting sign given to us in Exodus chapter 21 and Deuteronomy 15 where a Hebrew servant was to be set free after serving 6 years, in the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] year they were to be set free. But the servant that did not desire to be set free was to be “marked” at the door, even at the door post before the judges. His master would mark him in the ear, and the servant would be the masters forever.


But this sign is also shown with the blood of the Passover Lamb being placed on the door posts of ones house to keep the spirit of
death, even the Destroyer from entering in. And who died in Egypt that did not have the blood of the Lamb for protection? It was the firstborn of man and beast.


And another sign of the Lord marking his anointed priesthood was also signified in the blood of consecration upon the right ear of his anointed. So depending on whomever one served they were to be marked or sealed, just as these symbolisms above were just shadows of the true spiritual marks.


Just as the Lords seal placed on his servants is that of the Holy Spirit, but those who are in bondage to
sin are also marked in the forehead by the spirit of this world, even by the spirit of that Wicked Prince of this world.

And so by your words and actions you show forth the fruits of whom you serve. As Paul said in Romans 6:16 “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But Jesus said to those who believed on Him in John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


Jesus came to set you free from the bondage of this
evil world and sin, and to destroy the works of the Devil in your life. And those who the Lord has purchased with his own blood needs to keep himself from all evil, and possess his vessel in sanctification and honor. Jesus said we would be hated of all men for His names sake, and some of us shall they cause to be put to death, but in your patience you possess your souls.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#2
Thank you, InSpiritInTruth :)
 
3

3Scoreand10

Guest
#4
I see you are still deceiving yourself that you are sinless and perfect.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#5
Worse piece of exegesis I've ever ever seen.
'Imaginations run wild', should be the title of this thread.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#6
Romans 7:14 (NET) For we know that the law is spiritual – but I am unspiritual, sold into slavery to sin.

Paul is simply stating his powerlessness under the law, unredeemed, and void of the power of the Holy Spirit.
There is no indication he is talking of slave trade merchants, pottage, or marked doors in mind. That's fanciful thinking and arrogant to say "the Lord showed me this". Christ's crucifixtion and resurrection cuts the power of sin and His Spirit empowers us to holiness...

Romans 8:2-4 (NET)
2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.
3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#7
I see you are still deceiving yourself that you are sinless and perfect.
Where exactly does the OP say anything about "sinless and perfect"?

I read the OP post and it clearly speaks about the "service of sin." That context is clearly Biblical...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Yet you avoid that context completely, you don't even reference it, and instead use this phrase, "sinless and perfect."

What would be the reason that you do such a thing?

Is appears that directly addressing the context of "serving sin" is very problematic for you.

Do you still serve sin or are you a servant of righteousness? Or is it both that you perceive you serve?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#8
Christ's crucifixtion and resurrection cuts the power of sin and His Spirit empowers us to holiness...

Romans 8:2-4 (NET)
2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death.
3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
You liked 3Scoreand10's critique where "sinless and perfect" was brought up.

If the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in you who walk after the Spirit (as the Bible teaches), does not such a thing negate an ongoing service of sin? In other words one surely cannot be serving sin (obeying sin) if one is indeed walking after the Spirit.

If the service of sin has indeed ceased for those whom walk after the Spirit in accordance with the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ what exactly is your issue with the OP? Why equate the OP to this term "sinless and perfect" which you then equate to error?

You allusion to "sinless and perfect" being some kind of error surely equates with "sinful and imperfect" being true.

The context of the OP is specifically SERVICE which obviously necessitates an "act of the will" (for obedience/disobedience is always rooted in choice, without choice there can neither be obedience or disobedience, just a wrong or right direction). Your allusion to the OP context of SERVING SIN being an error means that your are opposed to a cessation of SERVING SIN, how could it not?

Logic 101.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#9
My contention is that those whom raise the terms "sinless and perfect" or "sinless perfection" are simply petitioning a strawman which they can tear down because they are very uncomfortable in dealing directly with the issue of "obedience from the heart."

Paul clearly wrote...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Ergo...

Sin Unto Death = Obedience unto unrighteousness.

Obedience Unto Righteousness = Disobedience Unto Righteousness.

Thus when Paul refers to "obedience from the heart" as relating to "being set free from sin" the context is clearly as to whether an individual actually obeys God or not.

Those who still knowingly do that which they know is wrong are servants of Satan. Thus...

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

The context ALWAYS being how we exercise free agency.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#10
You liked 3Scoreand10's critique where "sinless and perfect" was brought up.

If the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in you who walk after the Spirit (as the Bible teaches), does not such a thing negate an ongoing service of sin? In other words one surely cannot be serving sin (obeying sin) if one is indeed walking after the Spirit.

If the service of sin has indeed ceased for those whom walk after the Spirit in accordance with the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ what exactly is your issue with the OP? Why equate the OP to this term "sinless and perfect" which you then equate to error?

You allusion to "sinless and perfect" being some kind of error surely equates with "sinful and imperfect" being true.

The context of the OP is specifically SERVICE which obviously necessitates an "act of the will" (for obedience/disobedience is always rooted in choice, without choice there can neither be obedience or disobedience, just a wrong or right direction). Your allusion to the OP context of SERVING SIN being an error means that your are opposed to a cessation of SERVING SIN, how could it not?

Logic 101.
That's right ski, I'm glad you have reached perfection, I have not...

1 John 1:8-10 (KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

BIBLE 101
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#11
Worse piece of exegesis I've ever ever seen.
'Imaginations run wild', should be the title of this thread.
2 Peter 2:12
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Jude 1:10
But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
 
I

Is

Guest
#12
I think "sold under sin' would be better rendered "enslaved to it".
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#13
Isaiah 50:1
Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.
 

Yonah

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2014
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#14
Prov. 14:12 and Prov. 16:25, there is a reason for the instruction we are given in the scripture...
2Ti 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
now the question is: what "scripture" do you think he is speaking of here? the NT? no because the NT didn't exist yet, so the scripture here described is the OT , it is very clear what ways we are instructed to walk in, yet many go about seeking a different way, Paul understood this, he addressed it in many of his letters, and yet many failed to heed, the instructions are quite clear and fairly straight forward, it only becomes complicated when man chooses to find ways to avoid them and go his own way, despite the warnings and admonition mankind is constantly seeking ways to minimize his own sin when the solution to all sin is clear (our Savior) and our willing and knowing cooperation with His Spirit to lead and guide us into all truth, all we have to do is yield, not try to find ways aroiund His clear instructions for us.

 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#17
2 Peter 2:12
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Jude 1:10
But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
So is this some type of mental telepathy? Mind directly responding to me personally rather than implying certain things through out of context Scripture?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#18
skinski said:
Originally Posted by Skinski7

You liked 3Scoreand10's critique where "sinless and perfect" was brought up.

If the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in you who walk after the Spirit (as the Bible teaches), does not such a thing negate an ongoing service of sin? In other words one surely cannot be serving sin (obeying sin) if one is indeed walking after the Spirit.

If the service of sin has indeed ceased for those whom walk after the Spirit in accordance with the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ what exactly is your issue with the OP? Why equate the OP to this term "sinless and perfect" which you then equate to error?

You allusion to "sinless and perfect" being some kind of error surely equates with "sinful and imperfect" being true.

The context of the OP is specifically SERVICE which obviously necessitates an "act of the will" (for obedience/disobedience is always rooted in choice, without choice there can neither be obedience or disobedience, just a wrong or right direction). Your allusion to the OP context of SERVING SIN being an error means that your are opposed to a cessation of SERVING SIN, how could it not?

Logic 101.
That's right ski, I'm glad you have reached perfection, I have not...

1 John 1:8-10 (KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

BIBLE 101

1Joh 1:8-10 is simply an allusion to coming clean with God in repentance in order to be cleansed from all unrighteousness and cleansed from all sin.

Even though that is very obvious you choose to treat it as if it somehow cancels out any notion of ceasing the service of sin.

Look at what you did. You presented a single verse as a proof text to completely avoid addressing anything I actually stated.

Your head is deeply imbedded in the sand.



As for perfection, Jesus stated the following...

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus commanded people to be complete in moral character and that is all I argue in favour of also. We simply have to be pure in heart and that is simply wrought through us yielding ourselves to the Spirit of God having truly repented, a repentance which purged the rebellion from our hearts. The power of God reaps a purity within our spirit when we faithfully cooperate with God, hence we are saved by grace through faith, a very powerful operation which brings a very powerful and total transformation. We are truly complete in Christ.

Jesus said to people, "be ye complete as God is complete." The context of the statement of Jesus was...

Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.


The day has come when a multitude of religious people absolutely refuse to directly discuss the teachings of Jesus because those teachings undermine their bullet point theology.

It is much easier to ignore the very plain teachings of Jesus and quote 1Joh 1:8-10 and pretend John is teaching the every individual is perpetually inwardly wicked whilst they are in a flesh body. Those whom buy into that have been soundly defeated in the mind and have been efficiently immunised against being redeemed from all iniquity as well as being purified that they be truly zealous of righteousness.

:)
 
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Jan 7, 2015
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#19
In Revelation 12:3 we read “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.” The great red dragon in this verse is a symbolism of Satan, the Devil, or the Serpent as he has many names. But you ever wonder why he is shown as red? I believe it because it is clue for us to understand the nature of the man/beast, which by the way is also shown as red (scarlet).

Revelation 17:3; “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.” Again the color is a clue to figure out the nature of the beast, which is also the nature of the firstborn man.

Adam being the first man to have
iniquity found in him is also a sign of this very thing; just as the name of Adam means earthly, red. To confirm this sign we are also given a clue in Esau, who was also the firstborn.
Genesis 25:25; “And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.” Who also by the way sold his birthright over some red pottage. Genesis 25:30; “And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.” ( Edom means red, earthly, of blood.)

More insight into the sign of the firstborn
Esau is also shown here in
Romans 9:13; “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Why was this statement made by the Lord? If you back up to verse 8 we see the meaning in Romans 9:8; “That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

So now we begin to see the firstborn
nature of man is flesh, or carnally minded like natural brute beasts. Jesus confirms this truth here in
John 3:6; “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” And is also shown here 1 Corinthians 15:46; “Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.”

The difference between the flesh (
carnally mind man) and the Spirit (spiritually minded man) also shows the difference between the serpents seed and the womans seed; and is also why the firstborn man persecutes those who are born again of God’s Holy Spirit.
Galatians 4:29; “But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.” Even as Cain the firstborn of Adam killed his righteous brother Abel and then received a “mark.”

In this we also see the
firstborn nature of man has a different spirit working in him than that of God’s heavenly Spirit. Just as the Lord said in Genesis 6:3 My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh:”


This spirit in the
firstborn carnally minded man is earthly, lustful and is also of this world; which is also the same spirit of the Red Dragon, or prince of this world. We see the red dragon empowers the scarlet beast which comes up out of the sea.
Revelation 13:2; “And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:4; “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”

If we worship our heavenly Father and His Lamb in the Spirit of Truth and in righteousness; how do you suppose the
firstborn man worships the red dragon and the scarlet beast?


And perhaps in better understanding these spiritual things, it will also help one to understand the
mark of the beast, and also the image of the beast they truly worship through the lusts of their own flesh.


So you still might be wondering what is that
red mark shown in the firstborn man of sin, and the red dragon, and the scarlet colored beast?


The answer is found right here in
Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”