Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
34
#1
This is for those who wish to refute the idea of sin confession for forgiveness. Its rather long but I found it on the web and feel like it addresses 1 John 1:9 really well. If you have the time, give it a read. It will definitely open your eyes to the truth, in regards to whether a Christian must confess their sins in order to be forgiven or not. One of the best methods to address 1 John 1:9 to those who believe in sin confession, considering this is the only verse to support the doctrine. Enjoy...

Originally from:
1 John and the Gnostics...... - The Watchman's CryWhy did the Gnostics claim to be "without sin"?

The following article has an interesting historical and biblical perspective:

1 John 1:9

When we read the Bible, we need to look at the context in which each book was written. If we don't do that, it's easy to misinterpret what a particular book or chapter is really saying. When that happens, we can easily come to wrong conclusions, which can then cause a lot of misunderstanding about the work of Christ on our behalf.

One example of this is that many people believe that although their sins have been forgiven prior to salvation, after salvation it is up to them to obtain forgiveness through their confession. Others believe that all their sins have been forgiven at the cross, however, they cannot experience forgiveness unless they confess each time they sin. The verse both parties use to defend their belief is I John 1:9. Let's read the first chapter of 1 John, and keep in mind two important questions: "Who was John's audience?" and 'What was he trying to accomplish in this letter?"

The audience was a confused church in Asia. The pastor there asked John to write a letter to help clear up some major doctrinal heresy called "Gnosticism." Gnosticism comes from the Greek word " gnosis", which means knowledge. The Gnostics were a group of people who believed they possessed superior spiritual knowledge. They believed that all flesh is evil and that only spirit is good. Because they believed that, they didn't believe that Jesus really came in the flesh - they believed He was an illusion. They also believed that because sin had to do with our flesh, there really wasn't sin - sin was also just an Illusion. (That's similar to people today who believe sickness is an illusion.) The church in Ephesus was filled with people who not only didn't believe Christ came in the flesh, they didn't believe sin was real.

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life"
(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.

"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).
This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ. Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ.

"This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).
John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).
(edit out link)

"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.

"If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins.We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).
John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here doesn't refer to believers. He is referring to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.

However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." In other words, if the Gnostics were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness. In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future. Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness. And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever!

"If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).
Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.

The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.

Today, there are people who believe that Christians must confess their sins in order to be forgiven. They believe that it is possible for us to be "in and out" of fellowship with God and that we must "keep short accounts" (or stay "fessed up"). The Bible doesn't teach that we are "in and out" of fellowship with God. A person who is saved is in fellowship with God - eternally. "God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful." (1 Corinthians 1:9).
A person who is lost is not in fellowship with God. There is no bouncing back and forth. You are either in fellowship with God (saved, walking in the light) or you are not in fellowship with God (lost, walking in darkness).

Scripture also doesn't teach the idea of "keeping short accounts" (being "fessed up"). Teaching that we are to "keep short accounts" with God causes very real and damaging problems because we miss the point of what confession really is. Such popular teaching makes confession a mindless cure-all, a "bar of soap" we use daily to clean up our flesh. A common scenario would be of a person privately confessing to God a bitter attitude towards another and then asking for forgiveness. Afterwards, he doesn't think about it, feeling that he has adequately met the "spiritual" requirement.

"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins" (Colossians 2:13)
The fact is that while the sin issue is dead between you and God, it isn't between the people with whom we come in contact daily. When we realize we've wronged another, we need to go to that person and take steps toward reconciling the relationship with that person.

It is easy to "confess" our sins and continue on, thinking we have met a spiritual" requirement. But has there really been a change in our attitude, and not just our action? That would be like the little boy whose father angrily tells him to sit down and be quiet in church. The little boy does so, but tells his father that "I may be sitting down on the outside, but I'm standing up on the inside!"
God is much more concerned with changed attitudes. As our attitudes change - through the truth of God's Word - our actions will eventually change.

Teaching we must confess our sins in order to be forgiven doesn't produce changed hearts. Why? Because we have placed ourselves under a "law" which demands that we confess every sin in order to be forgiven and stay in fellowship with God. However, there are no laws, Mosaic or man-made, that can free us from sin. The law was never meant to free us from sin because "the power of sin is the law" (1 Corinthians 15:56). Therefore, we usually end up repeating the same sin before the week (or even the day) is over and feel guilt and frustration over our inability to change.

This obsession with confession keeps us under the power of sin because we are consumed with thoughts of ourselves in a sincere desire to please God. As a result, though, we become so concerned about whether we are "in or out of fellowship" with God that we don't have time for our relationships down here. We are too busy keeping "short accounts" to be able to serve our brothers in love. Compare and see how many times the Scriptures exhort us to love one another versus confessing our sins. The emphasis is overwhelmingly in favor of loving our brothers.

We need to focus on the fact that God has forever settled the sin issue. Before Christ, men's sins separated them from God. Christ was the only solution to this dilemma.
Then He hung on the cross and said "It is finished!",
He meant it is finished! God has bridged the gap between Himself and man through His Son. "All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them... God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:18,19,21).

Since the Bible tells us that all of our sins are forgiven because of the grace of God, then what do we do when we do sin?
Ignore it and say "I'm under grace, so it doesn't make any difference if I sin?" Many believe that teaching the forgiveness of Christ will cause people to go out and sin more. Paul dealt with this argument over 2,000 years ago. He responded, "By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" (Romans 6:2). He continues to tell us that "we should no longer be slaves to sin - because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. . . In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. . . For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace"
(Romans 6:6,7,11,14).

The more we understand our identification with Christ, the more we understand that we have been freed from the power of sin. We are freed from sin because of the work of Christ Jesus on our behalf, not because of our law keeping. Teaching the forgiveness we have in Christ is not a license to sin - we don't need a license to sin. The only reason people often believe this is true is because they lack an understanding of God's unconditional love, forgiveness and acceptance. They do not understand the motivating power of Christ's love for them.

The Bible tells us "to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness" (Ephesians 4:23,24).
Concerning lying, for instance, we are told "to put off falsehood and speak truthfully to our neighbor, for we are all members of one body" (verse 25).
Or, concerning stealing, Ephesians 4:28 says that "he who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need."
In other words, stop lying and start telling the truth. Quit stealing and go to work so you can share with others. These are not laws we are to keep. Because we are children of God, it doesn't make sense for us to continue lying or stealing.

These are just a few verses that tell us what to do when we do sin. Not one verse says to confess our sins before we can go on with life. The motivation, instead, is found in Ephesians 4:32, which says we are to "be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." The only way we can ever love, forgive and accept others is because Christ has first loved, forgiven and accepted us. It is true that we will treat others the way we feel God is treating us. If we feel we have to perform for God and ask His forgiveness each time we sin, we expect the same performance from everyone else. If we believe God loves us only when we do the right things, then we tend to also love others when they, too, do the right things.

The opposite is also true. Only when we understand the unconditional love, forgiveness and acceptance of God will we ever be able to share that same love with those around us. It is impossible for us to love and forgive one another if we are constantly worrying about our own acceptance to God. The simple truth is that "we love because He first loved us" (1 John 4:19).

If we believe we must continually confess our sins in order to be loved and forgiven by God, we are actually mocking God and telling Him that Christ's work on our behalf was not sufficient. The damage caused by this belief is extensive. There are many who are in bondage to this "law" that was created and perpetuated by man. That's why it is so important to understand what the bible says about Christ's finished work on the cross and our identity in Him. As we understand these truths and keep our eyes on the Lord instead of ourselves, we will see our lives change.
 
Last edited:

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
3,678
113
#2
I confess. It was too long an article to try and decipher just another persons opinion.

1 John 1:9 (KJV) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Plain enough to me.

Even children should confess to their parents...makes them no less a son or daughter.
 
Last edited:

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
34
#3
I confess. It was too long an article to try and decipher just another persons opinion.

1 John 1:9 (KJV) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Plain enough to me.

Even children should confess to their parents...makes them no less a son or daughter.
Context Crossnote, context. Give it a read, you'll be happy you did. I think a strong point that this isn't to believers but to Gnostics is verse 3.

"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).

They are being invited and proclaimed to, in order to join the fellowship that the believers have with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.
 
Jan 17, 2013
612
19
18
#4
Confession

Are all of our sins—past, present, and future—forgiven once and for all when we become Christians? Not according to the Bible or the early Church Fathers. Scripture nowhere states that our future sins are forgiven; instead, it teaches us to pray, "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors" (Matt. 6:12).

The means by which God forgives sins after baptism is confession: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Minor or venial sins can be confessed directly to God, but for grave or mortal sins, which crush the spiritual life out of the soul, God has instituted a different means for obtaining forgiveness—the sacrament known popularly as confession, penance, or reconciliation.

This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men"). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23).

Since it is not possible to confess all of our many daily faults, we know that sacramental reconciliation is required only for grave or mortal sins—but it is required, or Christ would not have commanded it.
Over time, the forms in which the sacrament has been administered have changed. In the early Church, publicly known sins (such as apostasy) were often confessed openly in church, though private confession to a priest was always an option for privately committed sins. Still, confession was not just something done in silence to God alone, but something done "in church," as theDidache (A.D. 70) indicates.
Penances also tended to be performed before rather than after absolution, and they were much more strict than those of today (ten years’ penance for abortion, for example, was common in the early Church).
But the basics of the sacrament have always been there, as the following quotations reveal. Of special significance is their recognition that confession and absolution must be received by a sinner before receiving Holy Communion, for "[w]hoever . . . eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:27).

The Didache

"Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas

"You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light" (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch

"For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ" (Letter to the Philadelphians 3 [A.D. 110]).
"For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God, and to communion with the bishop" (ibid., 8).

Irenaeus

"[The Gnostic disciples of Marcus] have deluded many women. . . . Their consciences have been branded as with a hot iron. Some of these women make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this, and in silence, as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of the life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between the two courses" (Against Heresies 1:22 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian

"[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness" (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]).

Hippolytus

"[The bishop conducting the ordination of the new bishop shall pray:] God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . . Pour forth now that power which comes from you, from your royal Spirit, which you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, and which he bestowed upon his holy apostles . . . and grant this your servant, whom you have chosen for the episcopate, [the power] to feed your holy flock and to serve without blame as your high priest, ministering night and day to propitiate unceasingly before your face and to offer to you the gifts of your holy Church, and by the Spirit of the high priesthood to have the authority to forgive sins, in accord with your command" (Apostolic Tradition 3 [A.D. 215]).

Origen

"[A final method of forgiveness], albeit hard and laborious [is] the remission of sins through penance, when the sinner . . . does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord and from seeking medicine, after the manner of him who say, ‘I said, "To the Lord I will accuse myself of my iniquity"’" (Homilies on Leviticus 2:4 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian of Carthage

"The apostle [Paul] likewise bears witness and says: ‘ . . . Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience has been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest . . . they do violence to [the Lord’s] body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than when they denied him" (The Lapsed 15:1–3 (A.D. 251]).
"Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who . . . confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. . . . I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord" (ibid., 28).
"inners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition of the hand of the bishop and clergy receive the right of Communion. [But now some] with their time [of penance] still unfulfilled . . . they are admitted to Communion, and their name is presented; and while the penitence is not yet performed, confession is not yet made, the hands of the bishop and clergy are not yet laid upon them, the Eucharist is given to them; although it is written, ‘Whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]" (Letters 9:2 [A.D. 253]).
"And do not think, dearest brother, that either the courage of the brethren will be lessened, or that martyrdoms will fail for this cause, that penance is relaxed to the lapsed, and that the hope of peace [i.e., absolution] is offered to the penitent. . . . For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace is given" (ibid., 51[55]:20).
"But I wonder that some are so obstinate as to think that repentance is not to be granted to the lapsed, or to suppose that pardon is to be denied to the penitent, when it is written, ‘Remember whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works’ [Rev. 2:5], which certainly is said to him who evidently has fallen, and whom the Lord exhorts to rise up again by his deeds [of penance], because it is written, ‘Alms deliver from death’ [Tob. 12:9]" (ibid., 51[55]:22).

Aphraahat the Persian Sage

"You [priests], then, who are disciples of our illustrious physician [Christ], you ought not deny a curative to those in need of healing. And if anyone uncovers his wound before you, give him the remedy of repentance. And he that is ashamed to make known his weakness, encourage him so that he will not hide it from you. And when he has revealed it to you, do not make it public, lest because of it the innocent might be reckoned as guilty by our enemies and by those who hate us" (Treatises 7:3 [A.D. 340]).

Basil the Great

"It is necessary to confess our sins to those to whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries is entrusted. Those doing penance of old are found to have done it before the saints. It is written in the Gospel that they confessed their sins to John the Baptist [Matt. 3:6], but in Acts [19:18] they confessed to the apostles" (Rules Briefly Treated 288 [A.D. 374]).

John Chrysostom

"Priests have received a power which God has given neither to angels nor to archangels. It was said to them: ‘Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose, shall be loosed.’ Temporal rulers have indeed the power of binding; but they can only bind the body. Priests, in contrast, can bind with a bond which pertains to the soul itself and transcends the very heavens. Did [God] not give them all the powers of heaven? ‘Whose sins you shall forgive,’ he says, ‘they are forgiven them; whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.’ What greater power is there than this? The Father has given all judgment to the Son. And now I see the Son placing all this power in the hands of men [Matt. 10:40; John 20:21–23]. They are raised to this dignity as if they were already gathered up to heaven" (The Priesthood 3:5 [A.D. 387]).

Ambrose of Milan

"For those to whom [the right of binding and loosing] has been given, it is plain that either both are allowed, or it is clear that neither is allowed. Both are allowed to the Church, neither is allowed to heresy. For this right has been granted to priests only" (Penance 1:1 [A.D. 388]).

Jerome

"If the serpent, the devil, bites someone secretly, he infects that person with the venom of sin. And if the one who has been bitten keeps silence and does not do penance, and does not want to confess his wound . . . then his brother and his master, who have the word [of absolution] that will cure him, cannot very well assist him" (Commentary on Ecclesiastes 10:11 [A.D. 388]).

Augustine

"When you shall have been baptized, keep to a good life in the commandments of God so that you may preserve your baptism to the very end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin, but they are venial sins which this life is never without. Baptism was instituted for all sins. For light sins, without which we cannot live, prayer was instituted. . . . But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the body of Christ. Perish the thought! For those whom you see doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities. That is why they are doing penance. If their sins were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out. . . . In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptisms, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance" (Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15, 8:16 [A.D. 395]).

Confession | Answers
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
3,678
113
#5
I just confessed to Jesus my sin of lack of love to Him. Is this not covered in 1John 1:9 ?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
3,678
113
#6
Context Crossnote, context. Give it a read, you'll be happy you did. I think a strong point that this isn't to believers but to Gnostics is verse 3.

"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).

They are being invited and proclaimed to, in order to join the fellowship that the believers have with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.
vs. 9 says IF WE CONFESS etc. I'll take we to be we and not gnostics.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
34
#7
I just confessed to Jesus my sin of lack of love to Him. Is this not covered in 1John 1:9 ?
You fail to realize that I did not say you couldn't confess your sins, but rather I am addressing what you are confessing for. If you are confessing in order to be forgiven, then you are in error, as it isn't scriptural, as is shown in the article above you didn't take the time to read.

We can be open about our humanity with the Lord, we can ask Him for victory in areas we are struggling with. We can tell him we are struggling with a peculiar sin and ask for the grace to overcome it, or the revelation needed for its grip to be loosened (such that it doesn't have dominion because we arent under law but grace). Another revelation, could be the gift of no condemnation that aids in the power of sin over a person's life.

The point being, you don't confess in order to be forgiven. Jesus is where your forgiveness lies. The blood of Christ cleanses you from all unrighteousness. Also consider, a person who knows their sin doesn't condemn them and they need not confess in order to be forgiven would actually feel free to be open with the Lord about their sin, because it has no say in their eternal destination. Jesus does. They wouldn't feel like Adam and Eve hiding from the Lord in the garden, but could stand before God without condemnation, even so going to the Father for advice and comfort.
 
Jan 17, 2013
612
19
18
#8
It is required. Otherwise Christ would not have commanded it.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#10
Wow Ben, hats off to you for attempting to open up this subject. :eek: I heard a message about confession for the "believer" after I began being very confused about taking communion. Since I believe it is scriptural that we were saved once and that means we are always saved, I could not understand how if I confessed my sins He would be faithful and just to forgive me my sins and cleanse me from all unrighteousness...when I was already cleansed from all unrighteousness. (as far as the east is from the west)

Being taught we are not to take communion if there is any sin inside us.... yikes... there is always something in us like getting angry just minutes before church and communion., or feeling jealous about those shoes she has on.. or not grateful that moment for all the blessings because I was feeling sad about a misunderstanding with my husband... or hundreds of other wrong thoughts at any given time. Did I always have the mind of Christ?? And what about worry? the Bible says what ever is not of faith is sin.... so what does that mean? If we offend in one we offend in all.

Just how is a believer supposed to believe they are worthy enough to go to communion free of known sin? What about unknown sin? sin is sin. Worry is sin., fear is sin., whatever is not of faith is sin.... Do we as believers go back and forth into the light and out of the darkness? in and out of fellowship with God so that if we happen to be in the dark at that moment then God can't fellowship with us and is angry at us? But often we stay away from Him and don't take communion because we can't resolve some issue right away. (what about Jesus?)

The Bible says we are not of the night but we are children of the day., Children of the light. We do not go back and forth into the darkness and out of the light... confess our sins and go back into the light and out of the darkness depending on our own righteousness and ability. Our righteousness is settled IN Christ., we are IN Christ at all times. We go before God based on our righteous standing in Christ. We can not ever lose that standing because it is secured by and in Christ. Those verses in 1 John 1:9 and on must be seen in light of the truth of our standing in Christ.

I don't have my Bible with me tonight but would like to share the amazing too good to be true news (Gospel) of our being the righteousness of God IN Christ. Look forward to coming back to this thread tomorrow when I am home. Blessings Ben!



 
S

shotgunner

Guest
#11
The simple truth is that if no sin is forgiven until you confess it, we would be bound for hell every time we commit even the smallest infraction. The only way to get to heaven would be to confess all our sins, if that is even possible, and then die in the microseconds afterwards, before we have any chance to sin.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
3,678
113
#12
You fail to realize that I did not say you couldn't confess your sins, but rather I am addressing what you are confessing for. If you are confessing in order to be forgiven, then you are in error, as it isn't scriptural, as is shown in the article above you didn't take the time to read.

We can be open about our humanity with the Lord, we can ask Him for victory in areas we are struggling with. We can tell him we are struggling with a peculiar sin and ask for the grace to overcome it, or the revelation needed for its grip to be loosened (such that it doesn't have dominion because we arent under law but grace). Another revelation, could be the gift of no condemnation that aids in the power of sin over a person's life.

The point being, you don't confess in order to be forgiven. Jesus is where your forgiveness lies. The blood of Christ cleanses you from all unrighteousness. Also consider, a person who knows their sin doesn't condemn them and they need not confess in order to be forgiven would actually feel free to be open with the Lord about their sin, because it has no say in their eternal destination. Jesus does. They wouldn't feel like Adam and Eve hiding from the Lord in the garden, but could stand before God without condemnation, even so going to the Father for advice and comfort.
Nothing but word games of a sophist
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#13
Catholic dogma doesn't fly in here.....as a matter of fact it drops like a rock to the bottom of the dogma pool!
Confession

Are all of our sins—past, present, and future—forgiven once and for all when we become Christians? Not according to the Bible or the early Church Fathers. Scripture nowhere states that our future sins are forgiven; instead, it teaches us to pray, "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors" (Matt. 6:12).

The means by which God forgives sins after baptism is confession: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Minor or venial sins can be confessed directly to God, but for grave or mortal sins, which crush the spiritual life out of the soul, God has instituted a different means for obtaining forgiveness—the sacrament known popularly as confession, penance, or reconciliation.

This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men"). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23).

Since it is not possible to confess all of our many daily faults, we know that sacramental reconciliation is required only for grave or mortal sins—but it is required, or Christ would not have commanded it.
Over time, the forms in which the sacrament has been administered have changed. In the early Church, publicly known sins (such as apostasy) were often confessed openly in church, though private confession to a priest was always an option for privately committed sins. Still, confession was not just something done in silence to God alone, but something done "in church," as theDidache (A.D. 70) indicates.
Penances also tended to be performed before rather than after absolution, and they were much more strict than those of today (ten years’ penance for abortion, for example, was common in the early Church).
But the basics of the sacrament have always been there, as the following quotations reveal. Of special significance is their recognition that confession and absolution must be received by a sinner before receiving Holy Communion, for "[w]hoever . . . eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:27).

The Didache

"Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas

"You shall judge righteously. You shall not make a schism, but you shall pacify those that contend by bringing them together. You shall confess your sins. You shall not go to prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of light" (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch

"For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of penance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ" (Letter to the Philadelphians 3 [A.D. 110]).
"For where there is division and wrath, God does not dwell. To all them that repent, the Lord grants forgiveness, if they turn in penitence to the unity of God, and to communion with the bishop" (ibid., 8).

Irenaeus

"[The Gnostic disciples of Marcus] have deluded many women. . . . Their consciences have been branded as with a hot iron. Some of these women make a public confession, but others are ashamed to do this, and in silence, as if withdrawing from themselves the hope of the life of God, they either apostatize entirely or hesitate between the two courses" (Against Heresies 1:22 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian

"[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness" (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]).

Hippolytus

"[The bishop conducting the ordination of the new bishop shall pray:] God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. . . . Pour forth now that power which comes from you, from your royal Spirit, which you gave to your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, and which he bestowed upon his holy apostles . . . and grant this your servant, whom you have chosen for the episcopate, [the power] to feed your holy flock and to serve without blame as your high priest, ministering night and day to propitiate unceasingly before your face and to offer to you the gifts of your holy Church, and by the Spirit of the high priesthood to have the authority to forgive sins, in accord with your command" (Apostolic Tradition 3 [A.D. 215]).

Origen

"[A final method of forgiveness], albeit hard and laborious [is] the remission of sins through penance, when the sinner . . . does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord and from seeking medicine, after the manner of him who say, ‘I said, "To the Lord I will accuse myself of my iniquity"’" (Homilies on Leviticus 2:4 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian of Carthage

"The apostle [Paul] likewise bears witness and says: ‘ . . . Whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience has been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest . . . they do violence to [the Lord’s] body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than when they denied him" (The Lapsed 15:1–3 (A.D. 251]).
"Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who . . . confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. . . . I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord" (ibid., 28).
"inners may do penance for a set time, and according to the rules of discipline come to public confession, and by imposition of the hand of the bishop and clergy receive the right of Communion. [But now some] with their time [of penance] still unfulfilled . . . they are admitted to Communion, and their name is presented; and while the penitence is not yet performed, confession is not yet made, the hands of the bishop and clergy are not yet laid upon them, the Eucharist is given to them; although it is written, ‘Whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]" (Letters 9:2 [A.D. 253]).
"And do not think, dearest brother, that either the courage of the brethren will be lessened, or that martyrdoms will fail for this cause, that penance is relaxed to the lapsed, and that the hope of peace [i.e., absolution] is offered to the penitent. . . . For to adulterers even a time of repentance is granted by us, and peace is given" (ibid., 51[55]:20).
"But I wonder that some are so obstinate as to think that repentance is not to be granted to the lapsed, or to suppose that pardon is to be denied to the penitent, when it is written, ‘Remember whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works’ [Rev. 2:5], which certainly is said to him who evidently has fallen, and whom the Lord exhorts to rise up again by his deeds [of penance], because it is written, ‘Alms deliver from death’ [Tob. 12:9]" (ibid., 51[55]:22).

Aphraahat the Persian Sage

"You [priests], then, who are disciples of our illustrious physician [Christ], you ought not deny a curative to those in need of healing. And if anyone uncovers his wound before you, give him the remedy of repentance. And he that is ashamed to make known his weakness, encourage him so that he will not hide it from you. And when he has revealed it to you, do not make it public, lest because of it the innocent might be reckoned as guilty by our enemies and by those who hate us" (Treatises 7:3 [A.D. 340]).

Basil the Great

"It is necessary to confess our sins to those to whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries is entrusted. Those doing penance of old are found to have done it before the saints. It is written in the Gospel that they confessed their sins to John the Baptist [Matt. 3:6], but in Acts [19:18] they confessed to the apostles" (Rules Briefly Treated 288 [A.D. 374]).

John Chrysostom

"Priests have received a power which God has given neither to angels nor to archangels. It was said to them: ‘Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose, shall be loosed.’ Temporal rulers have indeed the power of binding; but they can only bind the body. Priests, in contrast, can bind with a bond which pertains to the soul itself and transcends the very heavens. Did [God] not give them all the powers of heaven? ‘Whose sins you shall forgive,’ he says, ‘they are forgiven them; whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.’ What greater power is there than this? The Father has given all judgment to the Son. And now I see the Son placing all this power in the hands of men [Matt. 10:40; John 20:21–23]. They are raised to this dignity as if they were already gathered up to heaven" (The Priesthood 3:5 [A.D. 387]).

Ambrose of Milan

"For those to whom [the right of binding and loosing] has been given, it is plain that either both are allowed, or it is clear that neither is allowed. Both are allowed to the Church, neither is allowed to heresy. For this right has been granted to priests only" (Penance 1:1 [A.D. 388]).

Jerome

"If the serpent, the devil, bites someone secretly, he infects that person with the venom of sin. And if the one who has been bitten keeps silence and does not do penance, and does not want to confess his wound . . . then his brother and his master, who have the word [of absolution] that will cure him, cannot very well assist him" (Commentary on Ecclesiastes 10:11 [A.D. 388]).

Augustine

"When you shall have been baptized, keep to a good life in the commandments of God so that you may preserve your baptism to the very end. I do not tell you that you will live here without sin, but they are venial sins which this life is never without. Baptism was instituted for all sins. For light sins, without which we cannot live, prayer was instituted. . . . But do not commit those sins on account of which you would have to be separated from the body of Christ. Perish the thought! For those whom you see doing penance have committed crimes, either adultery or some other enormities. That is why they are doing penance. If their sins were light, daily prayer would suffice to blot them out. . . . In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptisms, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance" (Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15, 8:16 [A.D. 395]).

Confession | Answers
 

Galatians2-20

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2013
261
19
18
#16
This is for those who wish to refute the idea of sin confession for forgiveness. Its rather long but I found it on the web and feel like it addresses 1 John 1:9 really well. If you have the time, give it a read. It will definitely open your eyes to the truth, in regards to whether a Christian must confess their sins in order to be forgiven or not. One of the best methods to address 1 John 1:9 to those who believe in sin confession, considering this is the only verse to support the doctrine. Enjoy...

Originally from:
1 John and the Gnostics...... - The Watchman's CryWhy did the Gnostics claim to be "without sin"?

The following article has an interesting historical and biblical perspective:

1 John 1:9

When we read the Bible, we need to look at the context in which each book was written. If we don't do that, it's easy to misinterpret what a particular book or chapter is really saying. When that happens, we can easily come to wrong conclusions, which can then cause a lot of misunderstanding about the work of Christ on our behalf.

One example of this is that many people believe that although their sins have been forgiven prior to salvation, after salvation it is up to them to obtain forgiveness through their confession. Others believe that all their sins have been forgiven at the cross, however, they cannot experience forgiveness unless they confess each time they sin. The verse both parties use to defend their belief is I John 1:9. Let's read the first chapter of 1 John, and keep in mind two important questions: "Who was John's audience?" and 'What was he trying to accomplish in this letter?"

The audience was a confused church in Asia. The pastor there asked John to write a letter to help clear up some major doctrinal heresy called "Gnosticism." Gnosticism comes from the Greek word " gnosis", which means knowledge. The Gnostics were a group of people who believed they possessed superior spiritual knowledge. They believed that all flesh is evil and that only spirit is good. Because they believed that, they didn't believe that Jesus really came in the flesh - they believed He was an illusion. They also believed that because sin had to do with our flesh, there really wasn't sin - sin was also just an Illusion. (That's similar to people today who believe sickness is an illusion.) The church in Ephesus was filled with people who not only didn't believe Christ came in the flesh, they didn't believe sin was real.

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life"
(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.

"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).
This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ. Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ.

"This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).
John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost). Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).
(edit out link)

"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.

"If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins.We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" (verse 8).
John is now addressing the belief the Gnostics had regarding sin because they didn't believe it was real and therefore believed they had no sin. The "we" John is using here doesn't refer to believers. He is referring to the Gnostics, who believed they were without sin. Because they claimed to be without sin, then they were only deceiving themselves and the truth (Jesus) was not in them.

However, verse 9 says that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." In other words, if the Gnostics were to confess they had sins, then God, Who is faithful and righteous, would forgive and cleanse them from their unrighteousness. In the Greek language, the words "forgive" and "cleanse" mean past actions that have results today and will continue to have results in the future. Also, the word "all" used in these verses means all. It doesn't mean that we are cleansed of our past sins and our past unrighteousness, it means we were cleansed of all our unrighteousness. And if God cleanses us from all unrighteousness, then we are cleansed forever!

"If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives" (verse 10).
Basically this verse is a repeat of verse 8. To put it simply, it means that the Gnostics can't claim to be without sin and yet be saved. John is saying that because the Gnostics claimed they had no sin, they were actually calling God a liar and therefore didn't know the truth.

The purpose of the first chapter of 1 John was to compare the truth of God to the error of gnosticism. John was addressing the Gnostics, who were deceived by their own teaching. He wanted the Gnostics to understand that what they believed conflicted with what God said. He was not, however, addressing believers.

Today, there are people who believe that Christians must confess their sins in order to be forgiven. They believe that it is possible for us to be "in and out" of fellowship with God and that we must "keep short accounts" (or stay "fessed up"). The Bible doesn't teach that we are "in and out" of fellowship with God. A person who is saved is in fellowship with God - eternally. "God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful." (1 Corinthians 1:9).
A person who is lost is not in fellowship with God. There is no bouncing back and forth. You are either in fellowship with God (saved, walking in the light) or you are not in fellowship with God (lost, walking in darkness).

Scripture also doesn't teach the idea of "keeping short accounts" (being "fessed up"). Teaching that we are to "keep short accounts" with God causes very real and damaging problems because we miss the point of what confession really is. Such popular teaching makes confession a mindless cure-all, a "bar of soap" we use daily to clean up our flesh. A common scenario would be of a person privately confessing to God a bitter attitude towards another and then asking for forgiveness. Afterwards, he doesn't think about it, feeling that he has adequately met the "spiritual" requirement.

"When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins" (Colossians 2:13)
The fact is that while the sin issue is dead between you and God, it isn't between the people with whom we come in contact daily. When we realize we've wronged another, we need to go to that person and take steps toward reconciling the relationship with that person.

It is easy to "confess" our sins and continue on, thinking we have met a spiritual" requirement. But has there really been a change in our attitude, and not just our action? That would be like the little boy whose father angrily tells him to sit down and be quiet in church. The little boy does so, but tells his father that "I may be sitting down on the outside, but I'm standing up on the inside!"
God is much more concerned with changed attitudes. As our attitudes change - through the truth of God's Word - our actions will eventually change.

Teaching we must confess our sins in order to be forgiven doesn't produce changed hearts. Why? Because we have placed ourselves under a "law" which demands that we confess every sin in order to be forgiven and stay in fellowship with God. However, there are no laws, Mosaic or man-made, that can free us from sin. The law was never meant to free us from sin because "the power of sin is the law" (1 Corinthians 15:56). Therefore, we usually end up repeating the same sin before the week (or even the day) is over and feel guilt and frustration over our inability to change.

This obsession with confession keeps us under the power of sin because we are consumed with thoughts of ourselves in a sincere desire to please God. As a result, though, we become so concerned about whether we are "in or out of fellowship" with God that we don't have time for our relationships down here. We are too busy keeping "short accounts" to be able to serve our brothers in love. Compare and see how many times the Scriptures exhort us to love one another versus confessing our sins. The emphasis is overwhelmingly in favor of loving our brothers.

We need to focus on the fact that God has forever settled the sin issue. Before Christ, men's sins separated them from God. Christ was the only solution to this dilemma.
Then He hung on the cross and said "It is finished!",
He meant it is finished! God has bridged the gap between Himself and man through His Son. "All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them... God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Corinthians 5:18,19,21).

Since the Bible tells us that all of our sins are forgiven because of the grace of God, then what do we do when we do sin?
Ignore it and say "I'm under grace, so it doesn't make any difference if I sin?" Many believe that teaching the forgiveness of Christ will cause people to go out and sin more. Paul dealt with this argument over 2,000 years ago. He responded, "By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" (Romans 6:2). He continues to tell us that "we should no longer be slaves to sin - because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. . . In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. . . For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace"
(Romans 6:6,7,11,14).

The more we understand our identification with Christ, the more we understand that we have been freed from the power of sin. We are freed from sin because of the work of Christ Jesus on our behalf, not because of our law keeping. Teaching the forgiveness we have in Christ is not a license to sin - we don't need a license to sin. The only reason people often believe this is true is because they lack an understanding of God's unconditional love, forgiveness and acceptance. They do not understand the motivating power of Christ's love for them.

The Bible tells us "to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness" (Ephesians 4:23,24).
Concerning lying, for instance, we are told "to put off falsehood and speak truthfully to our neighbor, for we are all members of one body" (verse 25).
Or, concerning stealing, Ephesians 4:28 says that "he who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need."
In other words, stop lying and start telling the truth. Quit stealing and go to work so you can share with others. These are not laws we are to keep. Because we are children of God, it doesn't make sense for us to continue lying or stealing.

These are just a few verses that tell us what to do when we do sin. Not one verse says to confess our sins before we can go on with life. The motivation, instead, is found in Ephesians 4:32, which says we are to "be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." The only way we can ever love, forgive and accept others is because Christ has first loved, forgiven and accepted us. It is true that we will treat others the way we feel God is treating us. If we feel we have to perform for God and ask His forgiveness each time we sin, we expect the same performance from everyone else. If we believe God loves us only when we do the right things, then we tend to also love others when they, too, do the right things.

The opposite is also true. Only when we understand the unconditional love, forgiveness and acceptance of God will we ever be able to share that same love with those around us. It is impossible for us to love and forgive one another if we are constantly worrying about our own acceptance to God. The simple truth is that "we love because He first loved us" (1 John 4:19).

If we believe we must continually confess our sins in order to be loved and forgiven by God, we are actually mocking God and telling Him that Christ's work on our behalf was not sufficient. The damage caused by this belief is extensive. There are many who are in bondage to this "law" that was created and perpetuated by man. That's why it is so important to understand what the bible says about Christ's finished work on the cross and our identity in Him. As we understand these truths and keep our eyes on the Lord instead of ourselves, we will see our lives change.

I've read your post and do agree with some of the points that are made. However, I am curious where you are going with this.

You are probably familiar with the "Hyper Grace" movement that has become the latest trend on Christian television and radio. They use a similar argument in their claims that a believer need not repent after their initial salvation. The only problem with their claims is that most hyper grace advocates mistake confession of sin only to be repentence. However, Jesus teaches in His sermon on the mount that repentence is a lifestyle of humility, meekness, and reliance on the Lord.

Unfortunately, many hyper grace advocates also claim that Jesus' teachings before His crucifixion and ressurection are for the Old Testament Jew only and should be ignored by New Testament believers. Then they go about preaching and teaching their take on Paul's letters, most of which conflicts with Jesus' teachings as well other New Testament authors, namely Peter & John.

As for the Apostle John, He taught that salvation is relational and that failing to abide in fellowship with Christ is wander outside of faith. John clearly teaches that one can not walk in authentic faith and in sin simultaneously. Both Peter & Paul say similar things in 2nd Peter 1 & Galatians 5.
 
Last edited:
Dec 9, 2011
14,142
1,806
113
#17
Wow Ben, hats off to you for attempting to open up this subject. :eek: I heard a message about confession for the "believer" after I began being very confused about taking communion. Since I believe it is scriptural that we were saved once and that means we are always saved, I could not understand how if I confessed my sins He would be faithful and just to forgive me my sins and cleanse me from all unrighteousness...when I was already cleansed from all unrighteousness. (as far as the east is from the west)

Being taught we are not to take communion if there is any sin inside us.... yikes... there is always something in us like getting angry just minutes before church and communion., or feeling jealous about those shoes she has on.. or not grateful that moment for all the blessings because I was feeling sad about a misunderstanding with my husband... or hundreds of other wrong thoughts at any given time. Did I always have the mind of Christ?? And what about worry? the Bible says what ever is not of faith is sin.... so what does that mean? If we offend in one we offend in all.

Just how is a believer supposed to believe they are worthy enough to go to communion free of known sin? What about unknown sin? sin is sin. Worry is sin., fear is sin., whatever is not of faith is sin.... Do we as believers go back and forth into the light and out of the darkness? in and out of fellowship with God so that if we happen to be in the dark at that moment then God can't fellowship with us and is angry at us? But often we stay away from Him and don't take communion because we can't resolve some issue right away. (what about Jesus?)

The Bible says we are not of the night but we are children of the day., Children of the light. We do not go back and forth into the darkness and out of the light... confess our sins and go back into the light and out of the darkness depending on our own righteousness and ability. Our righteousness is settled IN Christ., we are IN Christ at all times. We go before God based on our righteous standing in Christ. We can not ever lose that standing because it is secured by and in Christ. Those verses in 1 John 1:9 and on must be seen in light of the truth of our standing in Christ.

I don't have my Bible with me tonight but would like to share the amazing too good to be true news (Gospel) of our being the righteousness of God IN Christ. Look forward to coming back to this thread tomorrow when I am home. Blessings Ben!



people are saying they believe in OSAS but they don't believe that once you are forgiven of your sins/sinful nature then you don't have to keep asking for forgiveness.

The spirit is saved and sealed.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#18
Catholic dogma doesn't fly in here.....as a matter of fact it drops like a rock to the bottom of the dogma pool!
Half of those people and writings mentioned by Maynard are not Catholic, as those came before the Catholic church was even heard of and others were done during the 2nd century when the term catholic first started and was only used to explain the universal aspect of all nationalities can become Christians (believers in Christ).

Only the last 6 can be considered to be part of Catholic dogma, but still the early church leaders taught the same in the 1st 2 centuries.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#19
the history is true, there were gnostic in the Church...and it is a dangerous teaching...
basically the argument is that because there are 'gnostics' in the Church, the scripture
was only directed to THEM,,,we hear a 'similar argument' about the Book of Hebrews -
because there is some very harsh Judgment in there, the defense is, that (it is ONLY written to the Hebrews) -
this would be a 'getting-off-the-hook-defense....

the Book of 11JOHN is directed to the 'elect lady and her children' - so, you would be OFF THE HOOK
there also,
the Book of JAMES - the 12Tribes of Israel, so IF YOU WERE A GENTILE, you would be OFF THE HOOK
concerning James teachings.

but, it IS written,
All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for.......

it IS written again,
Man shall not live by bread alone...

to think or believe that we are not required to CONFESS our SINS that we are aware of, but instead
just go into DENIAL about them or just fluff them OFF...this would be denying Jesus Christ, our Mediator,
and our living relationship with our High Priest..

as far as sins of 'ignorance'...as it is written, The Holy Spirit makes Intercession'.......
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
3,678
113
#20
You fail to realize that I did not say you couldn't confess your sins, but rather I am addressing what you are confessing for. If you are confessing in order to be forgiven, then you are in error, as it isn't scriptural, as is shown in the article above you didn't take the time to read.

We can be open about our humanity with the Lord, we can ask Him for victory in areas we are struggling with. We can tell him we are struggling with a peculiar sin and ask for the grace to overcome it, or the revelation needed for its grip to be loosened (such that it doesn't have dominion because we arent under law but grace). Another revelation, could be the gift of no condemnation that aids in the power of sin over a person's life.

The point being, you don't confess in order to be forgiven. Jesus is where your forgiveness lies. The blood of Christ cleanses you from all unrighteousness. Also consider, a person who knows their sin doesn't condemn them and they need not confess in order to be forgiven would actually feel free to be open with the Lord about their sin, because it has no say in their eternal destination. Jesus does. They wouldn't feel like Adam and Eve hiding from the Lord in the garden, but could stand before God without condemnation, even so going to the Father for advice and comfort.
I never spoke of the christian confessing their sin in order not to be condemn (I guess you don't even read my short posts) but rather we as Christians confess our sins for forgiveness that our embattled conscience may be washed clear by the blood of Christ..not for salvation..

Your little theologial system robs the christian wracked with guilt from benefitting by short circuiting the surest way to a peaceful conscience.

1 John 1:7-9 (KJV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Psalms 51:1-9 (KJV)
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

James 5:15 (KJV) And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

So yes, a christian doesn't need to ask forgiveness of sins to be given eternal life each time but rather for a clean conscience and restored fellowship.