Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

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K

KennethC

Guest
#21
#21
oldthennew said:
the history is true, there were gnostic in the Church...and it is a dangerous teaching...
basically the argument is that because there are 'gnostics' in the Church, the scripture
was only directed to THEM,,,we hear a 'similar argument' about the Book of Hebrews -
because there is some very harsh Judgment in there, the defense is, that (it is ONLY written to the Hebrews) -
this would be a 'getting-off-the-hook-defense....

the Book of 11JOHN is directed to the 'elect lady and her children' - so, you would be OFF THE HOOK
there also,
the Book of JAMES - the 12Tribes of Israel, so IF YOU WERE A GENTILE, you would be OFF THE HOOK
concerning James teachings.

but, it IS written,
All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for.......

it IS written again,
Man shall not live by bread alone...

to think or believe that we are not required to CONFESS our SINS that we are aware of, but instead
just go into DENIAL about them or just fluff them OFF...this would be denying Jesus Christ, our Mediator,
and our living relationship with our High Priest..

as far as sins of 'ignorance'...as it is written, The Holy Spirit makes Intercession'.......
Click to expand...

This exactly right on but the only part that I would differ on is the part of saying the one's we are aware of, because of being a born again believer it says you will grieve the Holy Spirit every time you sin. That would mean the Holy Spirit will let you know when you have done wrong, and also the Lord's prayer (Matthew 6:9-13) and David (Psalm 19:12-13) are generic prayers that do not pin point sins for forgiveness for David even says in his Psalm to cleanse him from secret/unknown faults.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#22
#22
thank you Ken,

we will surely consider your line of thought.....

we appreciate you wisdom and the obvious time you have spent
in the Holy Scriptures.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#23
#23
crossnote said:
I never spoke of the christian confessing their sin in order not to be condemn (I guess you don't even read my short posts) but rather we as Christians confess our sins for forgiveness that our embattled conscience may be washed clear by the blood of Christ..not for salvation..

Your little theologial system robs the christian wracked with guilt from benefitting by short circuiting the surest way to a peaceful conscience.

1 John 1:7-9 (KJV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Psalms 51:1-9 (KJV)
1 Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

James 5:15 (KJV) And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

So yes, a christian doesn't need to ask forgiveness of sins to be given eternal life each time but rather for a clean conscience and restored fellowship.
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==========================================

ACTS 24:16.
And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.

John was fully aware of the principle of 'keeping a good conscience' - that's why he 'includes himself'
in 1JOHN 1:9. - he doesn't say, if YOU confess, but he says WE, and he is obviously being very careful
to include himself and was NOT a gnostic.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#24
#24
oldthennew said:
thank you Ken,

we will surely consider your line of thought.....

we appreciate you wisdom and the obvious time you have spent
in the Holy Scriptures.
Click to expand...
Well at least some do appreciate all views, but that is another subject....................LOL

There is other places in the scriptures that need to be taken into account with 1 John 1:7-10 that are hardly mentioned by some, and that is passages like Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9, and Hebrews 10:26-31.

These are just a few as there are multiple scriptures that warn about future sins committed by believers, even Apostle Paul warns Apostle Timothy that he could still be caught up again in future sins......(1 Timothy 5:22)
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#25
Dec 9, 2011
14,128
1,803
113
#25
shotgunner said:
The simple truth is that if no sin is forgiven until you confess it, we would be bound for hell every time we commit even the smallest infraction. The only way to get to heaven would be to confess all our sins, if that is even possible, and then die in the microseconds afterwards, before we have any chance to sin.
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I wanted to like your post but I wasn't sure if you were saying we only need to repent/confess once.

I know It sounds bad but I used to think OSAS sounded bad too.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#26
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
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#26
Another thing for people to consider, in 1 John we have two ways of dealing with sin. Yes, it mentions two. The first, of course, is sin confession (though misunderstood) and the other is walking in the light. Its interesting because one would think that if we sin, we are out of the light. However, that isn't what the verse says. Lets take a look...

1 John 1:7 - If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Lets make some logical inferences. When we sin, do we sin in or outside of the light? One might be inclined to say we sin outside of the light, even going on to say that to be in darkness is to sin. However, how would you align such thinking with 1 John 1:7? It says that if we walk in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

That means that you sinned in the light. That means that you had sin that was to be washed by the blood, and you did that sin in the light. Otherwise how does the blood of Christ cleanse you from all sin when you walk in the light if sinning took you out of the light? It doesn't make sense. The blood cleanses you from all sin when you walk in the light, therefore you sinned in the light otherwise there wouldn't be any sin to cleanse. Do you see it?

So, here you have sin confession mentioned but then you also have this concept of walking in the light and the blood of Christ cleansing you from all sin. Which is it? If the blood of Christ cleanses you from all sin by walking in the light, then what sin is there left to be confessed and forgiven of? Its already taken care of. His blood cleansed you. This is something to ponder. If sin doesn't take you out of the light, and the blood of Christ cleanses you of that sin while in the light, what are you confessing for? It is but wasted breath. Your prayer life could be so much more fruitful.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#27
#27
BenFTW said:
Another thing for people to consider, in 1 John we have two ways of dealing with sin. Yes, it mentions two. The first, of course, is sin confession (though misunderstood) and the other is walking in the light. Its interesting because one would think that if we sin, we are out of the light. However, that isn't what the verse says. Lets take a look...

1 John 1:7 - If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Lets make some logical inferences. When we sin, do we sin in or outside of the light? One might be inclined to say we sin outside of the light, even going on to say that to be in darkness is to sin. However, how would you align such thinking with 1 John 1:7? It says that if we walk in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

That means that you sinned in the light. That means that you had sin that was to be washed by the blood, and you did that sin in the light. Otherwise how does the blood of Christ cleanse you from all sin when you walk in the light if sinning took you out of the light? It doesn't make sense. The blood cleanses you from all sin when you walk in the light, therefore you sinned in the light otherwise there wouldn't be any sin to cleanse. Do you see it?

So, here you have sin confession mentioned but then you also have this concept of walking in the light and the blood of Christ cleansing you from all sin. Which is it? If the blood of Christ cleanses you from all sin by walking in the light, then what sin is there left to be confessed and forgiven of? Its already taken care of. His blood cleansed you. This is something to ponder. If sin doesn't take you out of the light, and the blood of Christ cleanses you of that sin while in the light, what are you confessing for? It is but wasted breath. Your prayer life could be so much more fruitful.
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The promise of 1 John 1:9 is not to establish a false system of confession as we see, but to promote honesty and for the purpose of our own pure conscience before God. A BELIEVER walking in the light of truth will see their sin and be hindered in their conscience from walking in the life of the Spirit...God gave us this promise to help us know we can be honest and be cleansed in our conscience from all sin....basically its a promise from God, for our benefit. :)
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#28
#28
BenFTW said:
Another thing for people to consider, in 1 John we have two ways of dealing with sin. Yes, it mentions two. The first, of course, is sin confession (though misunderstood) and the other is walking in the light. Its interesting because one would think that if we sin, we are out of the light. However, that isn't what the verse says. Lets take a look...

1 John 1:7 - If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Lets make some logical inferences. When we sin, do we sin in or outside of the light? One might be inclined to say we sin outside of the light, even going on to say that to be in darkness is to sin. However, how would you align such thinking with 1 John 1:7? It says that if we walk in the light the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

That means that you sinned in the light. That means that you had sin that was to be washed by the blood, and you did that sin in the light. Otherwise how does the blood of Christ cleanse you from all sin when you walk in the light if sinning took you out of the light? It doesn't make sense. The blood cleanses you from all sin when you walk in the light, therefore you sinned in the light otherwise there wouldn't be any sin to cleanse. Do you see it?

So, here you have sin confession mentioned but then you also have this concept of walking in the light and the blood of Christ cleansing you from all sin. Which is it? If the blood of Christ cleanses you from all sin by walking in the light, then what sin is there left to be confessed and forgiven of? Its already taken care of. His blood cleansed you. This is something to ponder. If sin doesn't take you out of the light, and the blood of Christ cleanses you of that sin while in the light, what are you confessing for? It is but wasted breath. Your prayer life could be so much more fruitful.
Click to expand...
That is not true as walking in the light means you walk by the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Walking by those fruits will not lead you to sin or stumble (2 Peter 1:10), and if you keep reading in John's epistle you will see that if you do sin then that is darkness (1 John 2:9). For he says if you claim to love God but hate your brother, which is a sin, you are in darkness.

James 1:14-16 says that you are drawn away when you sin, and if you let that sin/s take back control of you it will lead to eternal death.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#29
#29
KennethC said:
That is not true as walking in the light means you walk by the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Walking by those fruits will not lead you to sin or stumble (2 Peter 1:10), and if you keep reading in John's epistle you will see that if you do sin then that is darkness (1 John 2:9). For he says if you claim to love God but hate your brother, which is a sin, you are in darkness.

James 1:14-16 says that you are drawn away when you sin, and if you let that sin/s take back control of you it will lead to eternal death.
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Kenneth you just ignored the clear logic of his point...it did not say "if you walk in the light, you will not sin"
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#30
#30
KennethC said:
That is not true as walking in the light means you walk by the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Walking by those fruits will not lead you to sin or stumble (2 Peter 1:10), and if you keep reading in John's epistle you will see that if you do sin then that is darkness (1 John 2:9). For he says if you claim to love God but hate your brother, which is a sin, you are in darkness.

James 1:14-16 says that you are drawn away when you sin, and if you let that sin/s take back control of you it will lead to eternal death.
Click to expand...

Also I would add that 1 John 3:9 and 5:18 says those who are born of God (born again) can not sin, meaning that when you walk in the Spirit/light/fruits you can not sin. It is only when you are drawn away do you sin !!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#31
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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#31
KennethC said:
Half of those people and writings mentioned by Maynard are not Catholic, as those came before the Catholic church was even heard of and others were done during the 2nd century when the term catholic first started and was only used to explain the universal aspect of all nationalities can become Christians (believers in Christ).

Only the last 6 can be considered to be part of Catholic dogma, but still the early church leaders taught the same in the 1st 2 centuries.
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This told me all I needed to know about his post....the sacrament known popularly as confession, penance, or reconciliation.

and

 In the Church, therefore, there are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptisms, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance" (Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15, 8:16 [A.D. 395]).

 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#32
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
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#32
KennethC said:
That is not true as walking in the light means you walk by the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

Walking by those fruits will not lead you to sin or stumble (2 Peter 1:10), and if you keep reading in John's epistle you will see that if you do sin then that is darkness (1 John 2:9). For he says if you claim to love God but hate your brother, which is a sin, you are in darkness.

James 1:14-16 says that you are drawn away when you sin, and if you let that sin/s take back control of you it will lead to eternal death.
Click to expand...
How can you be cleansed of sin when walking in the light, if there is no sin in the light? The verse would not make sense. Connect the dots. You can't be cleansed of what is not there, it had to be present. However, and thank God, we are continually washed in the blood of Jesus Christ.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#33
#33
Mitspa said:
Kenneth you just ignored the clear logic of his point...it did not say "if you walk in the light, you will not sin"
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I did not ignore nothing because He said we sinned while in the light, but that is impossible because sin/darkness has no place in light. You can not sin while being in the light, for if you sinned that means you were drawn away from the light !!!
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#34
#34
KennethC said:
Also I would add that 1 John 3:9 and 5:18 says those who are born of God (born again) can not sin, meaning that when you walk in the Spirit/light/fruits you can not sin. It is only when you are drawn away do you sin !!!
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So do you sin? of course you do! then you have to read these scriptures as saying your not a real Christian. What its saying is that as a justified believer in Christ..you cannot be reckoned a sinner by God. God don't call us sinners and justified in Christ...that's just unbiblical.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#35
#35
KennethC said:
I did not ignore nothing because He said we sinned while in the light, but that is impossible because sin/darkness has no place in light. You can not sin while being in the light, for if you sinned that means you were drawn away from the light !!!
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Your just wrong and the clear logic of the passage proves it.
 
BenFTW

BenFTW

Senior Member
#36
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
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#36
KennethC said:
I did not ignore nothing because He said we sinned while in the light, but that is impossible because sin/darkness has no place in light. You can not sin while being in the light, for if you sinned that means you were drawn away from the light !!!
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Thats the point. His blood cleanses you in the light of all sin because sin cannot be in the light. Welcome to a revelation of grace.
 
M

Mec99

Banned
#37
Jul 4, 2015
648
6
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#37
Colossians 1:14
[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Ephesians 1:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Its interesting that by His Blood on the Cross we have been forgiven for all our sins. If we have been Forgiven for ALL our sins then why would we need to confess our sins to Jesus Christ?

1 John 1:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The reason we are to confess our sins is to bring us back into our relationship with God. How can you have a Relationship with God if you are sinning? This is why we are to confess our sins.

We are to confess our sins only to Jesus Christ because only He can forgive us for our sins. No one else other than God can forgive us for our sins.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#38
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
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#38
BenFTW said:
Thats the point. His blood cleanses you in the light of all sin because sin cannot be in the light. Welcome to a revelation of grace.
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Well..it has to be received first....!
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#39
#39
BenFTW said:
How can you be cleansed of sin when walking in the light, if there is no sin in the light? The verse would not make sense. Connect the dots. You can't be cleansed of what is not there, it had to be present. However, and thank God, we are continually washed in the blood of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
It says to continue walking in light, and how does one do this ???

By confessing their sins as verse 7 and not be applied by itself without verse 9 as well.
Once again I will make this point that trying to make scriptures stand alone is not how to properly study the word, as that way always leads to wrong understanding.

If you continue to walk in the light those fruits of the Spirit will not lead you to sin, and when you confess and return to walking in the Lords way those sins you fell back to commit will be covered as well.


Sin = Darkness = lawlessness = iniquity


2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#40
#40
So this scripture makes no sense...walking in the light, means you don't sin and have no sin....but that's not what the scripture says! where does this sin (that your cleansed from) come from Kenneth according to your doctrine?
 
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