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E
Symbolic prophecy with a time period in it should interpret the time period symbolicly. Literal prophecy with no symbols that has a time period should interpret the time period literaly, like the flood was a literal prophecy. Ezekiel 4 is symbolic prophecy.
This makes no sense. there is no reason to believe God would not give us a literal time from in all prophesy. Even when and if he uses symbolic things to represent literal things.
The biggest reason is we can easily interpret the symbols. There is no way possible to interpret time if we take it as a symbol.
T
What principle, is all prophetic days interpreted as years?
Did God prophesy that it would rain for 40 years, not literal days?
Prophesy must be interpreted
1. In context
2. As the person who was given the prophesy would have interpreted it
3. As the people to whom the prophesy was given would interpret it.
If God came to you and prophesied that some beast (figurative language would ensare you for 49 days, and then you would be realeased from its power. would you interpret him to mean 49 days, or 49 years? or would you take the 49 days as symbolic? and interpret him to mean some amount of time, but have NO CLUE how many days or years this is? (as laodicea wants us to do)
why not take God at his word, and he means 49 days, if he meant years why would he not say 7 weeks, as was custom in hebrew language?, and even then, a week could mean a literal week, or a time period of 7 sevens or 49 years.
Just because the beast is symbolic of something real, does not mean the time period should be symbolic either.
Did God prophesy that it would rain for 40 years, not literal days?
Prophesy must be interpreted
1. In context
2. As the person who was given the prophesy would have interpreted it
3. As the people to whom the prophesy was given would interpret it.
If God came to you and prophesied that some beast (figurative language would ensare you for 49 days, and then you would be realeased from its power. would you interpret him to mean 49 days, or 49 years? or would you take the 49 days as symbolic? and interpret him to mean some amount of time, but have NO CLUE how many days or years this is? (as laodicea wants us to do)
why not take God at his word, and he means 49 days, if he meant years why would he not say 7 weeks, as was custom in hebrew language?, and even then, a week could mean a literal week, or a time period of 7 sevens or 49 years.
Just because the beast is symbolic of something real, does not mean the time period should be symbolic either.
Ezekiel 4:5-6 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
Now "all scripture is given for our learning" and God didn't tell Ezekiel, "OK, prophet, only you are to understand that prophetic days in visions are really years." Since He didn't tell Ezekiel that, we should look at all other visionary prophetic days as years unless there is Scripture telling us otherwise. There isn't such a verse anywhere I've been able to find, so prophetic days are years.
If that isn't true, please show me chapter and verse that changes the prophetic day-year principle.
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E
You keep missing the "prophetic days in visions" point. I've quoted these verses so many times, you guys should have them memorized by now. <wry smile>
Ezekiel 4:5-6 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
Now "all scripture is given for our learning" and God didn't tell Ezekiel, "OK, prophet, only you are to understand that prophetic days in visions are really years." Since He didn't tell Ezekiel that, we should look at all other visionary prophetic days as years unless there is Scripture telling us otherwise. There isn't such a verse anywhere I've been able to find, so prophetic days are years.
If that isn't true, please show me chapter and verse that changes the prophetic day-year principle.
Ezekiel 4:5-6 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
Now "all scripture is given for our learning" and God didn't tell Ezekiel, "OK, prophet, only you are to understand that prophetic days in visions are really years." Since He didn't tell Ezekiel that, we should look at all other visionary prophetic days as years unless there is Scripture telling us otherwise. There isn't such a verse anywhere I've been able to find, so prophetic days are years.
If that isn't true, please show me chapter and verse that changes the prophetic day-year principle.
why did you refuse to answer the 40 day and night question? you said if we can find a passage of prophesy where day does not mean year to show you. I did it and you are still fighting it.
You showed a command, I showed a prophesy. and you still want to argue?
Did Jonah stay in the belly of a fish 3 years? if you want to interpret each day as a year. you would be making a huge mistake.
T
You gave one passage, where God told someone to lay for 40 days, one day for each year of iniquity. which is not even a prophesy, but a command, God tells him and us specifically what each day represented. in this ONE area. and again, this one area not even related to prophesy. and you want to demand it means we must take each prophesy this way?
why did you refuse to answer the 40 day and night question? you said if we can find a passage of prophesy where day does not mean year to show you. I did it and you are still fighting it.
You showed a command, I showed a prophesy. and you still want to argue?
Did Jonah stay in the belly of a fish 3 years? if you want to interpret each day as a year. you would be making a huge mistake.
why did you refuse to answer the 40 day and night question? you said if we can find a passage of prophesy where day does not mean year to show you. I did it and you are still fighting it.
You showed a command, I showed a prophesy. and you still want to argue?
Did Jonah stay in the belly of a fish 3 years? if you want to interpret each day as a year. you would be making a huge mistake.
You keep avoiding the "in a vision" point. What's more, in the first post of the "Seven Year Trib, Really?" thread, how those day-years were fulfilled was srtatistically proven beyond reasonable doubt. Understandibly, you have a doctrine to defend, which you do so vociferously, but those were indesputable facts that you refuse to accept. This is useless, so I'm outta here.<grin>
L
As I mentioned before if a prophecy is a literal prophecy that is a prophecy with no symbols then the time period is also literal. Like the flood, 400 years told to Abraham and the 70 years captivity are all literal prophecy with no symbols therefore the time prophecy is also literal.
If a prophecy has symbols it is a symbolic prophecy and the time period mentioned is also symbolic and the year/day principle should be used. To say that the ten horns, little horn and time, times and a half in Daniel 7 is future is to interpret the prophecy incorrectly.
Daniel 7 has 4 kingdoms beginning with Babylon. Each kingdom succeeded the previous kingdom immediately the kingdom fell. Then the 4th kingdom is Rome and Rome fell in 476 AD so then according to how the prophecy is working we should see the 10 kings in 476 AD. The horns come out of the 4th beast (Rome) making them Roman in origin the Little horn also comes out of the 4th beast making the little horn Roman in origin. To put the horns in the future then the horns would not be Roman in origin and God would have had to put another 5th beast in the vision.
With this in mind the the time, times and dividing of time in Daniel 7 began a little time after 476 AD and went for 1260 years.
If a prophecy has symbols it is a symbolic prophecy and the time period mentioned is also symbolic and the year/day principle should be used. To say that the ten horns, little horn and time, times and a half in Daniel 7 is future is to interpret the prophecy incorrectly.
Daniel 7 has 4 kingdoms beginning with Babylon. Each kingdom succeeded the previous kingdom immediately the kingdom fell. Then the 4th kingdom is Rome and Rome fell in 476 AD so then according to how the prophecy is working we should see the 10 kings in 476 AD. The horns come out of the 4th beast (Rome) making them Roman in origin the Little horn also comes out of the 4th beast making the little horn Roman in origin. To put the horns in the future then the horns would not be Roman in origin and God would have had to put another 5th beast in the vision.
With this in mind the the time, times and dividing of time in Daniel 7 began a little time after 476 AD and went for 1260 years.
E
As I mentioned before if a prophecy is a literal prophecy that is a prophecy with no symbols then the time period is also literal. Like the flood, 400 years told to Abraham and the 70 years captivity are all literal prophecy with no symbols therefore the time prophecy is also literal.
If a prophecy has symbols it is a symbolic prophecy and the time period mentioned is also symbolic and the year/day principle should be used. To say that the ten horns, little horn and time, times and a half in Daniel 7 is future is to interpret the prophecy incorrectly.
Daniel 7 has 4 kingdoms beginning with Babylon. Each kingdom succeeded the previous kingdom immediately the kingdom fell. Then the 4th kingdom is Rome and Rome fell in 476 AD so then according to how the prophecy is working we should see the 10 kings in 476 AD. The horns come out of the 4th beast (Rome) making them Roman in origin the Little horn also comes out of the 4th beast making the little horn Roman in origin. To put the horns in the future then the horns would not be Roman in origin and God would have had to put another 5th beast in the vision.
With this in mind the the time, times and dividing of time in Daniel 7 began a little time after 476 AD and went for 1260 years.
If a prophecy has symbols it is a symbolic prophecy and the time period mentioned is also symbolic and the year/day principle should be used. To say that the ten horns, little horn and time, times and a half in Daniel 7 is future is to interpret the prophecy incorrectly.
Daniel 7 has 4 kingdoms beginning with Babylon. Each kingdom succeeded the previous kingdom immediately the kingdom fell. Then the 4th kingdom is Rome and Rome fell in 476 AD so then according to how the prophecy is working we should see the 10 kings in 476 AD. The horns come out of the 4th beast (Rome) making them Roman in origin the Little horn also comes out of the 4th beast making the little horn Roman in origin. To put the horns in the future then the horns would not be Roman in origin and God would have had to put another 5th beast in the vision.
With this in mind the the time, times and dividing of time in Daniel 7 began a little time after 476 AD and went for 1260 years.
If the 4th kingdom is completed and no longer. then we should be at the end time,
As for interpreting prophesy. I see no need or proof to not interpret literally. The symbol represented a literal kingdom, or kings or peoples. Why should we not interpret the time literally to represent literal time?
E
Rome did fall apart. Western Rome fell in 476 ad and was divided into 10 parts as the prophecy said. There are symbols to represent something literal it is the same with the 1260 days which are 1260 years
1260 days or 3 1/2 years. or the last part of the week. (7 year period)
L
Yes it did. Literally as God said it would, And it is said to come back stonger. One of its princes confirms a covenant with many for one week (7 years) and then in the middle break this covenant by commiting the abomination of desolation. Then great tribulation, ending with the return of Christ.
1260 days or 3 1/2 years. or the last part of the week. (7 year period)
1260 days or 3 1/2 years. or the last part of the week. (7 year period)
E
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[d] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time. 26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
The destruction of the final beast starts the rule of the entire earth of the saints of the most high.. this all occurs at the end of the 3 1/2 years, after he persecutes them for this time.
It is what Christ warned them about, when they see the abomination of desolation, which occurs in the middle of a 7 year covenant made by the final king of that empire
He breaks the covenant by committing the abomination, then there is great tribulation.
Then he is given reign for times times and half a time, to make war with the saints. Then he is destroyed by the son of man returning
He tried to go after the woman, But she did what God told her to do and ran to the mountains. Thus the final beast went after her offspring, Or the church.
Isreal gave birth to Christ and the Church (Christ was Jewish) thus the woman who God protected is Isreal.
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[d] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time. 26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
The destruction of the final beast starts the rule of the entire earth of the saints of the most high.. this all occurs at the end of the 3 1/2 years, after he persecutes them for this time.
It is what Christ warned them about, when they see the abomination of desolation, which occurs in the middle of a 7 year covenant made by the final king of that empire
He breaks the covenant by committing the abomination, then there is great tribulation.
Then he is given reign for times times and half a time, to make war with the saints. Then he is destroyed by the son of man returning
He tried to go after the woman, But she did what God told her to do and ran to the mountains. Thus the final beast went after her offspring, Or the church.
Isreal gave birth to Christ and the Church (Christ was Jewish) thus the woman who God protected is Isreal.
The Bible has only one author and God changes not. If God needed to say "Let there be light" only once and it was so, in the same way, God only needs to show us prophetic days are years, once, for that principle to stand throughout all time.
If prophetic days are not years, please show me chapter and verse in the Bible that does away with the principle.
If prophetic days are not years, please show me chapter and verse in the Bible that does away with the principle.
May I ask you, Ezekiel 4 how do you interpret this siege?
L
You will note that Yahvah God gave the instruction and the explanation of what each day represented with in the Ezekiel verse.
Please then show this explanation mentioned in Daniel?
Where is the explanation, to say that each day represented a year?
There is no explanation, because the day was meant to be interpreted as a day.
So even when ALmighty Yahvah God uses a day to mean a year, he gives us an explanation to help us understand.
Did he decide to confuse us all, by using day and not year? mmmmmmm no, I think not, only man would confuse us.....
Please then show this explanation mentioned in Daniel?
Where is the explanation, to say that each day represented a year?
There is no explanation, because the day was meant to be interpreted as a day.
So even when ALmighty Yahvah God uses a day to mean a year, he gives us an explanation to help us understand.
Did he decide to confuse us all, by using day and not year? mmmmmmm no, I think not, only man would confuse us.....
(1) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
This verse is symbolic and the meanings of the symbols is not found within this chapter you have to look in other parts of the Bible for the meaning. According to what you are saying that the meaning is not found there but, in other parts of the Bible does that mean it is not symbolic? NO it is symbolic as is the time prophecy in Revelation chapter 12. As I said before your reasoning on explaining the Bible is incorrect and we are to use all the Bible to explain the Bible.
Symbolic prophecy that has a time period mentioned in it makes the time prophecy also symbolic and a literal prophecy with no symbols makes the time prophecy literal time.
Revelation 12:1
(1) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
This verse is symbolic and the meanings of the symbols is not found within this chapter you have to look in other parts of the Bible for the meaning. According to what you are saying that the meaning is not found there but, in other parts of the Bible does that mean it is not symbolic? NO it is symbolic as is the time prophecy in Revelation chapter 12. As I said before your reasoning on explaining the Bible is incorrect and we are to use all the Bible to explain the Bible.
Symbolic prophecy that has a time period mentioned in it makes the time prophecy also symbolic and a literal prophecy with no symbols makes the time prophecy literal time.
(1) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
This verse is symbolic and the meanings of the symbols is not found within this chapter you have to look in other parts of the Bible for the meaning. According to what you are saying that the meaning is not found there but, in other parts of the Bible does that mean it is not symbolic? NO it is symbolic as is the time prophecy in Revelation chapter 12. As I said before your reasoning on explaining the Bible is incorrect and we are to use all the Bible to explain the Bible.
Symbolic prophecy that has a time period mentioned in it makes the time prophecy also symbolic and a literal prophecy with no symbols makes the time prophecy literal time.
Yes the whole Bible is to be used to receive understanding.
Now was Ezekiel 4 a Prophetic vision?
symbolic or literal?
Why don't you tell me? And show me from the Bible why you think the 1260 days are literal not symbolic? Not just someones opinion.
I have not been taught by man.
And I asked you to state Ezekiel 4 as literal or symbolic? Prophetic vision?
If the key to this is Ezekiel 4 then we must understand it.
L
May I ask, you to elaborate on, the someones opinion?
I have not been taught by man.
And I asked you to state Ezekiel 4 as literal or symbolic? Prophetic vision?
If the key to this is Ezekiel 4 then we must understand it.
I have not been taught by man.
And I asked you to state Ezekiel 4 as literal or symbolic? Prophetic vision?
If the key to this is Ezekiel 4 then we must understand it.
Since you have not been taught by man then you should have no trouble showing me Bible.
Since you have not been taught by man then you should have no trouble showing me Bible.
I have no trouble showing you the Bible here :
Ezekiel 4
1Thou also, son of man, take thee a tile, and lay it before thee, and pourtray upon it the city, even Jerusalem:
2And lay siege against it, and build a fort against it, and cast a mount against it; set the camp also against it, and set battering rams against it round about.
3Moreover take thou unto thee an iron pan, and set it for a wall of iron between thee and the city: and set thy face against it, and it shall be besieged, and thou shalt lay siege against it. This shall be a sign to the house of Israel.
4Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.
5For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
6And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
7Therefore thou shalt set thy face toward the siege of Jerusalem, and thine arm shall be uncovered, and thou shalt prophesy against it.
8And, behold, I will lay bands upon thee, and thou shalt not turn thee from one side to another, till thou hast ended the days of thy siege.
9Take thou also unto thee wheat, and barley, and beans, and lentiles, and millet, and fitches, and put them in one vessel, and make thee bread thereof, according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon thy side, three hundred and ninety days shalt thou eat thereof.
10And thy meat which thou shalt eat shall be by weight, twenty shekels a day: from time to time shalt thou eat it.
11Thou shalt drink also water by measure, the sixth part of an hin: from time to time shalt thou drink.
12And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.
13And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them.
14Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.
15Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith.
16Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, behold, I will break the staff of bread in Jerusalem: and they shall eat bread by weight, and with care; and they shall drink water by measure, and with astonishment:
17That they may want bread and water, and be astonied one with another, and consume away for their iniquity.