Why Joseph Prince is a Cancerous Growth within God's People

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I also speak fluent French, I used to teach FSL and immersion, as well as knowing German and Spanish. More recently I learned Biblical Greek and Hebrew. Growing up, I was probably the last generation of Canadians who were drilled in grammar - both English and French. And Greek is all grammar, along with vocabulary. Which is why I did so well in Greek in Seminary and now that I am taking Intermediate Grammar. I remember how many dropped out of Greek, because they had no background in grammar, which is very sad, I think. My sister is 8 years younger than me, and she had no grammar and no math, and it hindered her in a lot of things - although she did become a lawyer!

So no, grace is not capitalized, unless it is a proper noun that stands alone. And when you make it stand alone, you are separating it from God. Grace is an amazing gift, there is no doubt about it. But a gift is a common noun, and the gift is not the giver - the giver is God and he alone deserves the capitalization for being a proper noun - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Which I believe is part of the whole point of this thread.
Ah, thanks. I do have linguistics in my background and knew capping words has nothing to do with linguistics. I'm not a polyglot though. (I'm a monoglot.) So I thought she might have been talking about another language and that's how linguistics comes into play in other languages somehow. Now I know. That's not it either. Two excuses to cap the name of a god.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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God is love, true...Scripture says so.
No where do I read that God is grace.

Grace is only possible because justice was met ( God's wrath was poured out on Christ) in our stead.
Ask the fallen angels who sinned if God is grace.
Jesus = truth

Jesus = God

Therefore

Truth = God


Jesus = love

Jesus = God

Therefore


Love = God
Terrible logic. God is love, true:but it doesn't follow that love is God.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Pretty much. LOL (Didn't you just love that video series of his?)
I did..I loved it..it has much to say about the hearing of the truth or being stuck in our religious man-made traditions..


[video=youtube;F1tNjT7x8k0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1tNjT7x8k0[/video]

 
Nov 22, 2015
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Terrible logic. God is love, true:but it doesn't follow that love is God.
Agape love is God in manifestation. There are different kinds of love. If we think of human love - we'll get mixed up in our understanding of truths about the nature and heart and essence of our Lord.

You can't separate grace from Jesus just like you can't separate the wet from water anymore then we can separate love or truth from Jesus.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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David lived in a different covenant altho he did seem to see glimpses of the new from time to time as he did say this too - speaking of the New Covenant to come. I think this is one of the reasons why God called David a man after His own heart.

The New Covenant is different from the Old.

Romans 4:6-8 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

[SUP]7 [/SUP] "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED.


[SUP]8 [/SUP] "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT."
Different covenant:same sin, same guilty conscience, same God, same Redeemer.
Remember, that was David who Paul quoted!!
 
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You were right lynn..I can't stay away from the confusing and twisted things being said. Trying to separate grace from Jesus is like trying to separate the wet from water. I too agree that grace should not be capitalized ( however I do understand the reason one might do it but for the sake of it being a stumbling block to others I don't do it nor have I ever in the past )

I do agree too however that young Christians could get mixed up and not put their focus in on Christ and just a mental concept because they are not able to understand that Jesus is grace personified as it is all Him. Us older Christians should be able to see that Jesus is grace and love and it is impossible to separate them out.

Here are some thoughts on trying to separate the wet from the water and grace from Jesus. Anyone that takes the time to read the scriptures below would agree that it is impossible to separate grace from Jesus Himself as it is impossible to separate love from Him. Jesus is called the Truth. Does that make it wrong to say Jesus is Truth now?

Why is grace another name for Jesus?


  1. The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus (Acts 20:24, 2 Th 1:8).


  1. We are saved by grace (Eph 2:5); we are saved by Jesus (2 Tim 1:9).


  1. We are justified by grace (Rom 3:24); we are justified by Jesus (Rom 4:25).


  1. Grace helps us; Jesus helps us (Heb 4:16).


  1. God’s grace offers salvation to all (Tit 2:11); Jesus is the Savior of all (1 Tim 4:10).


  1. God is love and love that stoops (or comes down) is grace; Jesus is the Father’s love come down (John 16:28).


  1. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ (Rom 8:9) and the Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29).


  1. All the blessings of God come to us by grace alone and all of them are found in Jesus (Eph 1:3).


  1. Grace is a teacher (Tit 2:12); Jesus is a teacher (Matt 8:19).


  1. Grace reigns (Rom 5:21); Jesus reigns (1 Cor 15:25).


  1. When the Galatians cut themselves off from Christ, they cut themselves off from grace (Gal 5:4).


  1. In the same way that God is love, Jesus is grace (see 2 Cor 13:14).


  1. The Bible speaks of “the love of God” and “the grace of Jesus” ( 1Cor 16:23, Rev 22:21).


  1. God’s grace is given in Christ Jesus” (1 Cor 1:4, Eph 1:6, 2 Tim 1:9, 2:1). Jesus is the embodiment of God’s grace.


  1. Here are two Biblical blessings that say the same thing: “The Lord be with you” and “grace be with you” (2 Tim 4:22, Phm 1:25).


  1. The Old Testament prophets foretold the coming of Jesus and the coming of grace (1 Pet 1:10). These weren’t two separate events. Grace came when Jesus came (John 1:17).


  1. To the degree that we know Jesus, we enjoy God’s grace (2 Pet 1:2)


  1. Jesus is the word of God and the word of his grace which can build you up (Act 20:32)





Why does it matter?

This matters a great deal because grace will not bear fruit in your life if you think it is merely a concept or a doctrine. As Judah Smith said recently:

We shudder at the term grace because it has been so maligned, so abused, so misrepresented. We see grace as the get out of jail free card. “Oh yeah, I love me some grace man. I get my jiggy on in the weekend then I come back on Sunday and get me my grace on.” No, that’s not grace. You’ve met a concept, not a Person.”

I regularly encounter people who don’t know what grace is so they misuse it or they attack it. Just the other day someone wrote to tell me that too much preaching on grace leads to wrongdoing. That’s simply not possible when you have a proper understanding of grace. Grace no more leads to wrongdoing than love for your spouse will lead you to Ashley Madison.

The other day I happened to catch a prominent TV evangelist tearing my stuff to shreds on his program. (Watched by millions!) It’s nice to be noticed but I was saddened that he was using his platform to disparage the only thing that can empower people to live well.

I occasionally get asked by pastors to come and preach a sermon or run a seminar on grace because they recognize it as a hot topic. It makes me wonder what they’re preaching when they’re not preaching grace. Jesus is not a “hot topic” or a buzzword to be slotted into your teaching schedule. He’s the Lover of our souls and the Center of Everything!

What grace is not

Grace is not a doctrine or a podcast or a tweet. Grace is not a season to walk through or a midweek seminar. Grace is not one aspect of God’s character to be balanced against his other, less gracious aspects.
Grace is a Person who loves you, died for you, and now lives for you. The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus – there is no difference.

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you!

Here is the link that has more of this article on it for those that are interested.

https://escapetoreality.org/2015/09/04/grace-is-a-person/
That did it. From now on, according to y'all, I should only reference my husband as blue eyes. That's it. That's the one and only characterization there is about him. And everyone should know he is only Blue-Eyes. Not John!

Now you know all you need to know about him. He IS Blue-Eyes. Nothing else to know, nothing else to think about with him.

Seems stupid, doesn't it? And yet this IS the same thing you're trying to get all others to believe.

Yes, he has blue-eyes! No, that is not all there is to know about him.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Agape love is God in manifestation. There are different kinds of love. If we think of human love - we'll get mixed up in our understanding of truths about the nature and heart and essence of our Lord.

You can't separate grace from Jesus just like you can't separate the wet from water anymore then we can separate love or truth from Jesus.
Strawman categories. Apart from the sacrifice of Christ, God did not have to move in grace.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Different covenant:same sin, same guilty conscience, same God, same Redeemer.
Remember, that was David who Paul quoted!!

And a covenant build upon better promises and of then blood of Jesus that speaks of better things.

Here is a whole thread about all this if you want to see the differences between forgiveness in the Old Covenant vs the New Covenant. There has been a change! We have a great salvation inn our Lord!

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ion-confession-1-john-1-9-sin-confession.html
 
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Strawman categories. Apart from the sacrifice of Christ, God did not have to move in grace.

It's ok with me if you want to try to separate the wet from the water....and Jesus from grace..but I'll stick to what the scriptures say to me.

We can agree to disagree too!....:)
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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When we speak of God's attributes, we are talking about those characteristics that helps us to understand who He truly is. That which follows is a thorough, yet incomplete list and summary of His attributes.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Eternality[/TD]
[TD]Mercy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Goodness[/TD]
[TD]Omnipotence[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Grace[/TD]
[TD]Omnipresence[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Holiness[/TD]
[TD]Omniscience[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Immanence[/TD]
[TD]Righteousness[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Immutability [/TD]
[TD]Self-Existence[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Justice[/TD]
[TD]Sovereignty[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Love[/TD]
[TD]Transcendence[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/attributes.cfm


know and worship all of God, just for Who He is.
 
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Depleted

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Jesus = truth

Jesus = God

Therefore

Truth = God


Jesus = love

Jesus = God

Therefore


Love = God
The sun is a star = truth
Truth = God
God = Sun is a star?
(Your logic.)
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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Lynn, you can't join two different things, simply because a statement about them is true, and claim they are the same.

That's like saying:

Satan = is alive

God = is alive

God and Satan = are one
 
Nov 22, 2015
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The sun is a star = truth
Truth = God
God = Sun is a star?
(Your logic.)
Nope....sorry.....Your first premise is throwing your logic thing off. (The sun is a star = truth ) Everything starts and ends with Jesus. In everything He is the preeminence.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Terrible logic. God is love, true:but it doesn't follow that love is God.
true , but it does follow that any love not up to the standard of Gods love, is not love at all.. he should be our example. Thus God is love.
 
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I have left the posts filled with scriptures about grace and Jesus so I'm done with my part and everyone is allowed to believe what they want in this area.

Ok now though it looks like it's time to obey this scripture below as it is becoming useless and unprofitable....have a great day everyone!

2 Timothy 2:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
If He is grace and forgiveness, why didn't he forgive the fallen angels?
Why does he not forgive those who reject him?

Trying to put fallen angels in the same category as fallen man is not applicable. Man has not seen and Known God as they did.. They have seen God as he is, we have not..

He acts graciously toward mankind because He chose to on account of Christ, he didn't have to. He could have moved in justice as He did with the angels that sinned.
Did not have to. thanks, Thats grace, God did not have to but he did anyway, Not because we earned it, but because he loved.

God is the pure example of grace and love and mercy. There will never be another fall after this world is destroyed, because of this very reason..
 
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Well...thank you for the information.....we could have a lengthy discussion on the ever changing nature of language (written and oral) and grammar rules but then that is not the topic of discussion. Along with what I already said this is a discussion board not a formal essay, I capitalize what I want for emphasis as well.
Angela
1. If it's not part of the discussion why did you bring it up and explain your expertise in it? (Which ends up wasn't expertise.)

2. And you didn't get downgraded on your grades for unnecessary capping?

I'm not nitpicking. I'm exposing the marketing techniques in promoting this heresy. If I were writing a marketing book, I could use the techniques you've used just in this thread alone to fill up half the book with examples of what doesn't work.

Either you fell for a bait-and-switch so hard you're still trying to convince yourself that you still made a wise choice, or your working on baiting others for the bait-and-switch. It's just not working either way. If you're the former, deal with you've been had and move on, because the more time invested in this scheme the more it's going to hurt when you realize you were scammed.

God is not Grace.
Grace is not God.
Grace is something given by God to "whosoever will believe."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
1. If it's not part of the discussion why did you bring it up and explain your expertise in it? (Which ends up wasn't expertise.)

2. And you didn't get downgraded on your grades for unnecessary capping?

I'm not nitpicking. I'm exposing the marketing techniques in promoting this heresy. If I were writing a marketing book, I could use the techniques you've used just in this thread alone to fill up half the book with examples of what doesn't work.

Either you fell for a bait-and-switch so hard you're still trying to convince yourself that you still made a wise choice, or your working on baiting others for the bait-and-switch. It's just not working either way. If you're the former, deal with you've been had and move on, because the more time invested in this scheme the more it's going to hurt when you realize you were scammed.

God is not Grace.
Grace is not God.
Grace is something given by God to "whosoever will believe."
what heresy did you expose? Salvation by Grace?

Seems all you have done is attack a man who can not defend himself.

We had a word for that when I was young.. Maybe you did too?
 
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