Gift of Tongues: Contrary to Pentecost

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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#1
Many people believe that those speaking in tongues at Pentecost spoke in the languages of those present (though it says they heard them in their own language), but lets say this is true. That the tongue speakers literally were speaking in the language of the people and the people were not just hearing their language supernaturally. These tongues were obviously languages currently on the earth, presently used as people understood them. This in mind, lets pull some scriptures up about tongues that clearly reveals a contradiction from the tongues used at Pentecost and the gift of tongues used by the Corinthians.

Please note in the following verses that the gift of tongues requires an interpretation, where as the tongues used at Pentecost were understood by the people listening with no one interpreting.

1 Corinthians 14:2

2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

Please note: The tongues aren't being used to speak to the people but to God. Therefore they aren't speaking in the language of the people present supernaturally, because "no one understands them." Also, "they utter mysteries..."
which means it is hidden.

1 Corinthians 14:27

27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.

Please note: Each individual speaks in a tongue and then a person, the interpreter, interprets what has been said in tongues. The people don't understand the tongue like at Pentecost, these tongues "someone must interpret."


1 Corinthians 14:13

13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.

Please note: The tongue speaker may pray that he/she interprets
what they have spoken in tongues. This even points to another interesting thing; a tongue speaker can interpret their own tongues by the revelation of the Holy Spirit. Again, the tongues require an interpretation where as at Pentecost they did not (as the belief is they spoke in the languages of those present).

You may be asking, "For
what reason?" After having read the previous verse. For this reason...


1 Corinthians 14:9-12

9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church.

Please note: The person speaking in tongues is being encouraged to interpret (in verse 13) so as to edify those listening. Notice verse 9 says, "ho
w will anyone know what you are saying?" This means there exist in the use of the gift of tongues languages that those present do not understand. This is, obviously, contrary to how Pentecost is perceived where the people understood the tongues being spoken.


1 Corinthians 14:14-17

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding. 16 Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer,[a] say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? 17 You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

Please note: This verse makes it clear that those listening to the tongues are not edified in mind
without an interpretation because "they do not know what you are saying". Again, this reveals a different aspect to tongues that are contrary to how people perceive Pentecost. People will say tongues must be a language of the earth, or in the language of those present but clearly in these verses the tongues need to be interpreted for the edification of those around them.

You may be wondering what the point of all these verses are and what exactly is the argument I am putting forth. Simply, I am addressing the false notion that tongues must be an understood language of those present (meaning the tongue speaker is speaking supernaturally the language of those present) and that Pentecost is, contrary to popular belief, not the complete definition of the gift of tongues and all its operations. In the verses above it even mentions "singing in the spirit" and "praying in the spirit" (in 1 Corinthians 14:14-16) which points to worship and private prayer life, in tongues (context reveals this).

So, the notion that the gift of tongues is simply being gifted with the ability to address a foreigner in their native tongue has been shown, scripturally, to be incorrect. VVe have verses that completely contradict this premise, and therefore means that tongues are far more varied than people give the gift credit. Rather, give the Lord credit as God has put this gift into believers for the edification of the body of Christ and self. Keep this in mind, the whole chapter's focus is to emphasize edifying others and that is why the tongue speaker is to pray to interpret.

VVe are to use this gift for singing in the Spirit, giving a message to the body of Christ (with an interpreter), private prayer, and even intercession on behalf of others. The Holy Spirit guides this gift in our spirit to the Father. Remember the source of the use of our gifts. Love. To edify and uplift others as the Lord leads us to use these gifts for His glory and His comfort towards us. This thread is simply to address false notions that limit tongues and its use in edifying the body of Christ. Use the gift wisely and lovingly, in order. Use it to praise God and use your gifts so that others praise Him. Hallelujah.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#2
I don't mean to say the the gift of tongues referenced in Corinthians is contrary to what happened at Pentecost, but rather that the verses in 1 Corinthians 14 contradict people's belief that the tongues at Pentecost define tongues as only being languages of those present for their understanding. This isn't the case, as shown above. The gift of tongues, or speaking in tongues is varied in its uses. Sometimes they need interpretation and it isn't simply just speaking in another's native tongue for their edification.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#3
One of Paul's later instructions is if there is no interpreter to stay silent. (Chap 14:28) Why would they need to stay silent if it is a tongue to edify everyone?

The whole emphasis on this chapter is to bring order to the church in Corinth.

If Paul wanted to talk about ecstatic utterances I am sure he would have used those words. Ecstatic utterances were already in use by the pagans at the temple.

In the church of Corinth there were many different languages and nationalities being an ancient trading city so there were many different languages therefore there was need for interpreters and the use of tongues.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#4
If your speaking in tongues is a hindrance to other people you should not do it... And if there is no one to interpret it you should not do it.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#5
One of Paul's later instructions is if there is no interpreter to stay silent. (Chap 14:28) Why would they need to stay silent if it is a tongue to edify everyone?

The whole emphasis on this chapter is to bring order to the church in Corinth.

If Paul wanted to talk about ecstatic utterances I am sure he would have used those words. Ecstatic utterances were already in use by the pagans at the temple.

In the church of Corinth there were many different languages and nationalities being an ancient trading city so there were many different languages therefore there was need for interpreters and the use of tongues.
You seemed to have skipped over the part that says,"no one understands them." This seems to go over the head of people opposed to the use of this gift, for some reason. Do you understand that if the audience is varied with multiple languages that a person speaking in tongues must be using a language that none understand (for it to be a mystery and need interpretation, by the gift of interpretation)? That the tongues need interpretation is clear that none of the people, having all those languages present, understood what was being said. Not one, unless by the gift of interpretation.

The reason for silence is because the chapter is addressing edifying others and in the context of edification a person speaking in tongues without interpretation is not edifying the mind of those around them (as shown in the verses in the OP). They cannot "Amen" the praises you've just uttered in tongues.

You're trying to use history to override the clear verses that show that the tongues need an interpretation because none of the people present understand what is being said. The use of the gift is not dependent upon there being a multicultural community. One can speak in tongues in a place of only one language, and you'd still need an interpreter. You can have all languages of the earth present in a room and still need an interpreter. "No one understands..." and "mystery in the spirit." Also, "does not speak to people but to God." The fact of the matter is that the gift of tongues and interpretation go hand in hand, regardless of the audience.

You are trying to see it in practicality, but operating in the gift of tongues goes beyond just speaking to people in their native tongue. That is one use, but not all of the uses of the gift of tongues evident through all the verses shared in the OP. I think I can name at least five to six uses and benefits of tongues. However, it must be made clear. The gift is not simply used to communicate to others. There exists a public and private use of this gift.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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#6
I don't mean to say the the gift of tongues referenced in Corinthians is contrary to what happened at Pentecost, but rather that the verses in 1 Corinthians 14 contradict people's belief that the tongues at Pentecost define tongues as only being languages of those present for their understanding. This isn't the case, as shown above. The gift of tongues, or speaking in tongues is varied in its uses. Sometimes they need interpretation and it isn't simply just speaking in another's native tongue for their edification.
Indeed, the Scriptures seem to show two type of glossolalia (which are not contradictory, just different, like you said). The one at Pentecost and the other of the Corinthians.

However, I also do not believe that speaking in tongues is edifying for the church and we can't know if the speaking in tongues of the pentecostals/charismatics is the same as the glossolalia of the Corinthians.

I look with suspicion at every new sect/cult. I don't think Saint Paul is happy that we are separated. Also, the pentecostals focus too much on this particular gift of the Holy Spirit and Saint Paul said that this was the lesser of the gifts. He also said he'd rather say five words and be understood by everyone instead of saying thousands words that have no meaning for the others...
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#7
If your speaking in tongues is a hindrance to other people you should not do it... And if there is no one to interpret it you should not do it.
If the Lord led you to heal a person in the congregation but you know there is a person present that thinks healing is of the devil, do you choose God or man? Do you listen to the Lord, or do not pray for the sake of the person who is disbelieving? VVhile we may be under control of the gifts the Lord gives us, 'The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" we must also consider when and how to use our gifts. I agree we must use the gift in order and wisely. Also too, though, we must not quench the Spirit.

People will come up with a thousand reasons to not act out in faith with what God has given us for the sake of others, but there comes a time they need to wake up and stop denying the supernatural reality of our walk. You may be that beacon of light that opens their eyes that there is something more.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#8
I look with suspicion at every new sect/cult. I don't think Saint Paul is happy that we are separated. Also, the pentecostals focus too much on this particular gift of the Holy Spirit and Saint Paul said that this was the lesser of the gifts. He also said he'd rather say five words and be understood by everyone instead of saying thousands words that have no meaning for the others...
I get uncomfortable if people speak in tongues for all to hear without interpretation... How do you minister if people don't understand what you are saying? How is that a blessing to somebody new in Christ that doesn't understand the gifts of the Spirit yet?
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#9
Indeed, the Scriptures seem to show two type of glossolalia (which are not contradictory, just different, like you said). The one at Pentecost and the other of the Corinthians.

However, I also do not believe that speaking in tongues is edifying for the church and we can't know if the speaking in tongues of the pentecostals/charismatics is the same as the glossolalia of the Corinthians.

I look with suspicion at every new sect/cult. I don't think Saint Paul is happy that we are separated. Also, the pentecostals focus too much on this particular gift of the Holy Spirit and Saint Paul said that this was the lesser of the gifts. He also said he'd rather say five words and be understood by everyone instead of saying thousands words that have no meaning for the others...
The apostle Paul said that tongues were just as edifying, equally, with prophecy if one interprets (for the body of Christ).

[h=1]1 Corinthians 14:5 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Tongues are most definitely edifying for the body of Christ, and it as
with all gifts is dependent upon its use. Scripture is clear, if it is interpreted it is edifying for all. Otherwise, be silent if none interpret and keep it between you and God. [/FONT]
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#10
If the Lord led you to heal a person in the congregation but you know there is a person present that thinks healing is of the devil, do you choose God or man? Do you listen to the Lord, or do not pray for the sake of the person who is disbelieving? VVhile we may be under control of the gifts the Lord gives us, 'The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" we must also consider when and how to use our gifts. I agree we must use the gift in order and wisely. Also too, though, we must not quench the Spirit.

People will come up with a thousand reasons to not act out in faith with what God has given us for the sake of others, but there comes a time they need to wake up and stop denying the supernatural reality of our walk. You may be that beacon of light that opens their eyes that there is something more.
The difference is that God said He will use the Holy Spirit to guide you. I am sure that He will not forsake you if you are in that predicament brother.

Pray for the sick and if by the grace of God they are healed I am sure your stiff necked person will ask you to pray for them as well :)
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#11
I get uncomfortable if people speak in tongues for all to hear without interpretation... How do you minister if people don't understand what you are saying? How is that a blessing to somebody new in Christ that doesn't understand the gifts of the Spirit yet?
Yes, there ought to be order. I agree as there is scripture that says so.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#12
The difference is that God said He will use the Holy Spirit to guide you. I am sure that He will not forsake you if you are in that predicament brother.

Pray for the sick and if by the grace of God they are healed I am sure your stiff necked person will ask you to pray for them as well :)
Haha :p

The point being, there comes a time that we must not limit the edification of many for the sake of few. The few will catch up, hopefully. haha
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#13
Haha :p

The point being, there comes a time that we must not limit the edification of many for the sake of few. The few will catch up, hopefully. haha
Our Pastor is fluent in Hebrew. He can speak in tongues all day long if he wishes :p
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#14
Well the historical piece is always important because they were far removed from 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century mindset.

In verse 2 all Paul is saying that if a person is a speaker of English goes into a congregation where no one understands English, and begins to speak to that congregation in English, no one is going to understand what is being said, thus the speaker would only be speaking to God (because God would understand).

That is all he is referring to a linguistic language with meaning.
The word he uses is glossa, no other.

Secondly, the word used in Greek in pnuema (spirit) also means breath (this is done in Italian as well) so by his breath he speaks mysteries to the hearers.

So sure, I am edified if I am talking because even though the tongue is unknown to others I am still understanding what I am saying and so does God. (verse 4)

It is absolutely true that an unknown tongue (foreign language) is a mystery, you ever sat room where a foreign language is spoken, yup I have, they do speak mysteries because without an interpreter I do not have any understanding, you know what though God still understands.







You seemed to have skipped over the part that says,"no one understands them." This seems to go over the head of people opposed to the use of this gift, for some reason. Do you understand that if the audience is varied with multiple languages that a person speaking in tongues must be using a language that none understand (for it to be a mystery and need interpretation, by the gift of interpretation)? That the tongues need interpretation is clear that none of the people, having all those languages present, understood what was being said. Not one, unless by the gift of interpretation.

The reason for silence is because the chapter is addressing edifying others and in the context of edification a person speaking in tongues without interpretation is not edifying the mind of those around them (as shown in the verses in the OP). They cannot "Amen" the praises you've just uttered in tongues.

You're trying to use history to override the clear verses that show that the tongues need an interpretation because none of the people present understand what is being said. The use of the gift is not dependent upon there being a multicultural community. One can speak in tongues in a place of only one language, and you'd still need an interpreter. You can have all languages of the earth present in a room and still need an interpreter. "No one understands..." and "mystery in the spirit." Also, "does not speak to people but to God." The fact of the matter is that the gift of tongues and interpretation go hand in hand, regardless of the audience.

You are trying to see it in practicality, but operating in the gift of tongues goes beyond just speaking to people in their native tongue. That is one use, but not all of the uses of the gift of tongues evident through all the verses shared in the OP. I think I can name at least five to six uses and benefits of tongues. However, it must be made clear. The gift is not simply used to communicate to others. There exists a public and private use of this gift.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#15
Before the judgement upon the Tower of Babel, all the world spoke in one tongue.

Toke a class in college where they talked about the history of various languages and a root language that all others might have developed from.

Sanskrit, pali, Latin..all might have stemmed from a common source language.

Met people into witchcraft, sorcery, tantric arts who sought to speak in a "magical" language thinking they can speak and command the elements or nature or that their prayers would be heard with the repetition of a "sacred" sound.

Personally I do not believe that sounds uttered that make no sense to the hearers are profitable. God can understand our groans and moans so does not need a "holy" or "angelic" language. Of someone feels moved to babble than its not a sin. If they want to pray by babbling,then God can still hear and see their heart message.

However even Paul said he would rather one sentence of prophecy or edification to an hour of babbling in tongues (paraphrased).

Sometimes God asks us to be His fool and we step out in faith. For the foolishness of God exceeds the wisdom of men.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#16
A dose of healthy suspicion is a good thing Guess Who.

True believers are those who adhere to Truth. That may sound too simplistic, and, in a way it is. Present day deception is of a very crafty variety. It takes work to determine if someone is really speaking Truth.

Always have a healthy dose of skepticism!



Indeed, the Scriptures seem to show two type of glossolalia (which are not contradictory, just different, like you said). The one at Pentecost and the other of the Corinthians.

However, I also do not believe that speaking in tongues is edifying for the church and we can't know if the speaking in tongues of the pentecostals/charismatics is the same as the glossolalia of the Corinthians.

I look with suspicion at every new sect/cult. I don't think Saint Paul is happy that we are separated. Also, the pentecostals focus too much on this particular gift of the Holy Spirit and Saint Paul said that this was the lesser of the gifts. He also said he'd rather say five words and be understood by everyone instead of saying thousands words that have no meaning for the others...
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#17
Well the historical piece is always important because they were far removed from 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century mindset.

In verse 2 all Paul is saying that if a person is a speaker of English goes into a congregation where no one understands English, and begins to speak to that congregation in English, no one is going to understand what is being said, thus the speaker would only be speaking to God (because God would understand).

That is all he is referring to a linguistic language with meaning.
The word he uses is glossa, no other.

Secondly, the word used in Greek in pnuema (spirit) also means breath (this is done in Italian as well) so by his breath he speaks mysteries to the hearers.

So sure, I am edified if I am talking because even though the tongue is unknown to others I am still understanding what I am saying and so does God. (verse 4)

It is absolutely true that an unknown tongue (foreign language) is a mystery, you ever sat room where a foreign language is spoken, yup I have, they do speak mysteries because without an interpreter I do not have any understanding, you know what though God still understands.
This is not you speaking in English to a room full of Spanish people. This is you operating in a gift of the Spirit, the Holy Spirit who distributes gifts as He wills. VVhat you are presenting is disregarding the supernatural aspect of what is taking place with the gift of tongues.

You don't even see the gift of tongues appropriately, you are seeing that verse as simply speaking, again, English in a room full of Spanish people. Also the interpreter simply as that, an interpreter like at an evangelistic outreach in a foreign nation. A translator. You're taking the supernatural aspect of the gifts down to a practical and natural concept, one that is void of the Holy Spirit's operation.

The problem with your line of thought and practicality, is that the gift of tongues and interpretation of tongues is amongst other gifts that are most definitely miraculous and supernatural. The verse is speaking of operating in the gift of tongues, not just simply in tongues. Nor is it simply just referring to a person translating your English into Spanish in a room full of Spanish speaking people.

Keep in mind, and see this clearly. If no one understands the tongue speaker according to scripture, how is it the interpreter understands them? It is because it is a supernatural thing taking place. Supernaturally the person is speaking a foreign language to them, and supernaturally the interpreter is getting the understanding via the Holy Spirit through their spirit. This is why it is a gift, and not just simply a speaker with a translator present.
 
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Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
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#18
I just wanna add somethin on the inperpretaton fuss.. Sometimes people get the interpretation and dont say them openly. Depending on what it is, especially if its a private word I dont blast it into the crowd but bring it to that specific person when God wants me to. Its now always noticeable if there is ant interpretaton spoken.
Sometimes ppl get the interpretation for themselves and think about it at home without talking about it openly etc.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#19
Paul was talking about the 2 uses of tongues in 1 Cor. One is a devotional tongue for personal use in praying mysteries to God and other people are not involved.

Then there is the use of tongues as a gift of the Holy Spirit and as He wills only and used with the other gift - interpretation and it is used for the edification of those around us. This has the same effect as simple prophecy has - for edification, comfort and consolation to fellow believers.

Confuse the two uses of tongues and we'll end up with a mess. I believe the reason Paul brought order in the Corinthian gatherings because the people were just speaking in tongues all the time when they were together and that tongue is used for praying with our spirit to the Lord only. He was simply correcting the use of tongues so that there would be order.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#20
I agree when there is no unction from the Holy Spirit to give out a tongue for a message to the people there in a meeting - they should remain silent - in the fact of not speaking our loud in tongues as Paul does say we can speak to ourselves in tongues ( which is edifying us ) and to God.

1 Corinthians 14:28 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.