Holiness Is Not Legalism

Stephen63 · Sep 18, 2016

Cee said:

The issue can not be skirted around...

Either we believe Christ work makes us righteous or we believe our work does. And our work is self-righteousness.

But tthis also necessarily needs to play out into all forms of belief.

Is He my source of holiness or am I?
Do I follow Him and His Spirit by my effort or by His grace?
Am transformed by His grace or my works?

Christ gives us the answer to all of these questions.

I am the Vine.
You are the branches.
Apart from Me you can do nothing.
We bear His fruit because we abide in Him.
Why do we abide in Him? Because He loved us first.
We died to being our own Vine with sick fruit.
And we were grafted into Him, the True Vine.

No matter the question it comes down to this understanding...
He is the Truth
He is the Way
He is the Life.

ANYTHING we need we Ask Him.
He supplies ALL our needs.
As we understand this we bear His fruit.

He supplies our joy, our life, our grace, our power, our love, our freedom, our understanding of Him, our good works, our new man, our peace, our provision. He supplies it all. All. All.

Apart from Him we can do no-thing.
Any theology or Scripture interpretation that detracts from this should be questioned strongly.

Simply look to His life.
Everything He did was through the Spirit.
He only did His Father's works.
It was all given to Him.
And He Agreed with Him.
May we do the same in ALL things.

This theme is through ALL Scripture.
Adam and Eve were tempted by it.
Jesus was tempted by it.
And today we are still tempted by it.
Did God really say I was free?
Or do I need to try to figure out on my own?
Selah.

Yep..... leave us with an either/or situation, as if hypergrace or legalism can be the only choices. My question is how can you be so narrow-minded or judgmental that it HAS to be one or the other?

Everything after that piece of judgement carries no weight no matter how "nice" it sounds. Just fluff.

Stephen63 · Sep 18, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

Just like that..... you're fine & no damage because he said so.

Do you walk around thinking you carry enough spiritual weight to cover that? Or, is it you believe the readers are so gullible they will swallow your story?
Hold on..... there could be another reason, I wouldn't want to judge & leave you with only two options.

RobbyEarl · Sep 18, 2016

Look, people, The issue of grace and legalism has been a long theological discussion for ages. But , there is a solution. Faith properly place in the work of the Cross allows the Holy Spirit to work in you and through to produce good fruit. Placing faith in good fruit, The Father will not accept. Even heathens give to charity and do good works. I assure you that beyonce and P-diddy give to charities and feed the children. But, The Father will not accept that. The only thing that The Father will accept is a person that accepts His sacrafice and that is the Cross and nothing else. Accepting Jesus will allow the Holy Spirit to work in you producing Holiness. The Father will not accept any work of the flesh. It must by him and through Him. We are just willing vessels that He uses and will be greatly rewarded for allowing Him to use Us. Amen

Cee · Sep 19, 2016

Our works are filthy rags. We do not seek to be justified by our own righteousness, but His. If we seek to be justified by the law, we must keep all the law. Even our obedience flows from our love from Him because of His love, mercy and forgiveness first. Ours is a response to His grace.

Stephen63 said:

FreeNChrist · Sep 19, 2016

Stephen63 said:

Well, don't leave us in suspense. What, pray tell, is this "other" option??

JaumeJ · Sep 19, 2016

Without Salvation in the Blood of Jesus Christ, our works were filthy rags, but since we have come to Christ we have been given works , good works, that are worthy of heavenly reward. Our first concern is never the reward though, our first concern is praise and thanksgiving to Jesus Christ for His Sacrifice for us. It is certain all here know this already, but it is important to keep in mind. We bear teh fruits of teh Holy Spirit because of grace and our gratitude, constant thanksgiving and praise, and doing those good workds.

Good works are not necessarily miraculous at first sight, those who pray are doing good works, thosw who chare the Word, even those wh simply wait on the Lord. The apparently smallest of works is glorious because it stems from loving Jesus chrsit.

Yes, without Jesus Christ, our works, our deeds are filthy rags, but with His blessing we have washed our robes His Blessed Blod. Our deeds are our robes, wahsed whiter than any fuller can achieve.

God bless allwho are in Jesus Christ, amen.

Cee said:

Utah · Sep 19, 2016

PollyAnna said:

Poor John Wesley; the man lacked the very faith he demanded others have.

FreeNChrist · Sep 19, 2016

“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence." - Major Ian Thomas

heavenly_bound · Sep 19, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence." - Major Ian Thomas

a big amen to that bro

UnderGrace · Sep 19, 2016

Cee said:

Cee, Beautifully and truthfully stated. AMEN

Preacha24-7 · Sep 19, 2016

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the Law of sin and death. John8:36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. John17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. To God be the glory. Preacha24-7

PeterJens · Sep 21, 2016

Utah said:

How much have you read of John Wesley?
I would suggest you are expressing your own ignorance of his faith and theology.

If I am reading your words right, you are suggesting Wesley was not saved.

Now this is quite a comment from a protestant on another protestant, and suggests
you do not know what you are talking about, or worse do not know the Lord who
we follow.

Other than slandering Wesley, what thing are you condemning in the man?

PeterJens · Sep 21, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Though this quote sounds great, it is actually a form of legalism, and is saying a good
work is not a good work in and of itself.

It is this kind of morality that stops love, because it says, love can only be expressed
by this person and in these circumstances. But God honours all love expressed from
everyone. Where He has problems is over sin and evil.

But that is how the enemy gets in, turning good into evil, and evil to either be good or
irrelevant. Too many societies have been destroyed by this kind of morality, it always
has to be opposed wherever it appears.

And the same people are always pushing this double standard. A little yeast levens
the whole lump.

Grace777x70 · Sep 21, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

Well said and so very true.

Here is another one from Major Ian Thomas that drives the D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness mindset crazy.

Quote:

You may have harnessed the energy of the flesh in an otherwise quite genuine desire to honor the Lord Jesus in your life. The flesh, which has its origin in Satan, will go along with you; to survive, it is quite prepared to engage in every form of Christian activity, even though this may seem to honor Christ.

The flesh will sing in the choir, teach Sunday school, preside at a deacons’ meeting, preach from the pulpit, organize an evangelistic crusade, go to Bible college, volunteer for the mission field, and a thousand other things, all of which may in themselves be otherwise legitimate, if only it can keep its neck out of the noose.

The flesh will threaten, shout, strut, domineer, sulk, plot, creep, beg, plead, or sob, whatever the situation may demand in the interests of its own survival. By any and all means it will seek to cause every Christian to live by his own strength instead of by the power and grace of the Lord Jesus, and to conclude that doing so is actually a good thing!

The characteristic of the spiritually immature is that they are unable to discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:13-14), and the baby Christian, like the foolish Galatians, “having begun in the Spirit” still tries to be “made perfect by the flesh” (Galatians 3:3).

We must be particularly patient with those whose lack of understanding allows a genuine love for the Lord Jesus to be satisfied with, and sometimes to be quite enthusiastic about, Christian activities involving means and methods which are heavily contaminated by the flesh. These are more deserving of instruction than rebuke, for they are still in their spiritual babyhood.

.....The flesh will seek to produce the most plausible arguments in justification of its own illegitimate activities, even though these activities are only what the Bible calls “dead works” (Hebrews 6:1; 9:14) and not the “good works” which are truly the work of God.

“Good works” are those that have their origin in Jesus Christ, as Christ’s activity is released through your body because you present it to Him as a living sacrifice. You do this only by faith that expresses total dependence, as opposed to Adamic independence."

Major Ian Thomas: The Way Of The Flesh; from The Indwelling Life of Christ

FreeNChrist · Sep 21, 2016

PeterJens said:

Though this quote sounds great, it is actually a form of legalism, and is saying a good
work is not a good work in and of itself.

It is this kind of morality that stops love, because it says, love can only be expressed
by this person and in these circumstances. But God honours all love expressed from
everyone. Where He has problems is over sin and evil.

But that is how the enemy gets in, turning good into evil, and evil to either be good or
irrelevant. Too many societies have been destroyed by this kind of morality, it always
has to be opposed wherever it appears.

And the same people are always pushing this double standard. A little yeast levens
the whole lump.

It's actually a form of legalism? ROFLOL

PeterJens · Sep 21, 2016

PeterJens said:

What really drives the HG mindset crazy, is daring to suggest good things are actually good.
It is a wonder they feel they have to express their condemnation of doing good, no matter
who you are and where you are.

Jesus went so far to oppose the condemnation of good things by saying this

Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a
righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward.
Matt 10:41

Now the idea of God giving rewards truly winds them up unless they are part
of the "chosen" where there is no limit to how "blessed" they are. If ofcourse you
are not "blessed" you must not have enough "faith" and fallen into some terrible
"sin" to be judged like this.

PeterJens · Sep 21, 2016

FreeNChrist said:

I have read so many HG people confessing how each act they do they have to check
whether it is from the flesh or the Spirit, rather than seeing good as good.

So far from being free from condemnation they actually make more condemnation for
themselves and stop doing good things in case it is from the wrong place.

But true spiritual insight is beyond you obviously.

JaumeJ · Sep 21, 2016

It should always be not ony permissable but avisable to cosult with God on all actions that come into question. If we go against anything God dwelling within us does not want we are putting salvation, albeit free as it is, into jeapardy. Why would anyon condemn another in Christ for actually always being in consultation with Him? This is not any form of legalism except perhaps to the disobedient, it is simply living to please our God.

I bless all who try to always be in the will of God in Jesus Christ's name, amen.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 21, 2016

JaumeJ said:

This is the defenition of legalism, It says that although we are saved, If we do not live up to some standard, Our salvation may be in jeopardy.

It is one thing to say we should all be obedient, and how we will not be blessed if we are not obedient, and we are blessed if we are obedient.. It is a far other thing to say our salvation is dependent on how obedient we are. That is legalism.

PeterJens · Sep 21, 2016

JaumeJ said:

One has to be careful about what we are talking about here.
The ethic being preached is good deeds can be evil if done from self rather than inspired by God.

The fruit of such a link is to say random acts of kindness are not things of blessing.

It works out where people get confused about seeing the good in a situation and doing it rather
than trying to see excuses for not doing good, because it could have alterior motives.

Unfortunately in life there are always a possibility of ulterior motives to everything.
And the enemy wants people to stop doing good through any means possible.

In a world of evil and selfishness, it is the salt of good acts of love that brings hope and
life to everyone. So many times when people are having a bad day, an act of kindness brings
hope back to them. So this truly matters, at a very fundamental level.

But those who want to condemn and destroy have no concerns for the lost.

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