Unsaved Disciples In Acts 19th Chapter

[Enow]

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

The author of the Book of Acts, Luke, did not signify what kind of disciples they were other than that Paul came across some kind of disciples, but did not know of whom.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Their response to Paul's inquiry above now leads to Paul's question of what water baptism they were under below.


[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

That means they were never believers in Jesus Christ because they were disciples of John the Baptist's.

That was when Paul told them of Whom John the Baptist was preparing the way for; Jesus Christ.


[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

It was then after hearing Paul preached Jesus Christ to them that they then were baptized in Jesus's name.


[SUP]5 [/SUP]When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

And that is why they did not know about the Holy Ghost because they were formerly non-believers in Jesus Christ wherein now, after believing in Him & got water baptized n His name, they had received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ and that was when they got saved.


[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.[SUP]7 [/SUP]And all the men were about twelve.

So do not allow anyone to use that reference as if the promise of the Holy Spirit is separate from salvation, because those disciples of John the Baptist's were not believers in Jesus Christ nor were they His disciples because they were not baptized in His name, but under the water baptism of John the Baptist's. It was after Paul had told them about Jesus Christ that they had believed, got water baptized in His name, and then had received the Holy Spirit at their salvation.

Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[stonesoffire]

Joh_20:22　 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them,
Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
When was this event?

~
Joh 20:19　 It was the evening of the first day of the week, and the doors of the house where the disciples had met were locked because they were afraid of the Jews. Jesus came and stood among them. He told them, "Peace be with you."　



Joh 20:20　 After saying this, he showed them his hands and his side, and when they saw the Lord the disciples were overjoyed.　



Joh 20:21　 Jesus told them again, "Peace be with you. Just as the Father has sent me, so I am sending you."　



Joh 20:22　 When he had said this, he breathed on them and told them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.　

Joh 20:23　 If you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven. If you retain people's sins, they are retained."　
Jesus and Thomas
Joh 20:24　 Thomas, one of the Twelve (called the Twin), wasn't with them when Jesus came.
　

Joh 20:25　 So the other disciples kept telling him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he told them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands, put my finger into them, and put my hand into his side, I will never believe!"
　

Joh 20:26　 A week later his disciples were again inside, and Thomas was with them. Even though the doors were shut, Jesus came, stood among them, and said, "Peace be with you."
　

Joh 20:27　 Then he told Thomas, "Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Take your hand, and put it into my side. Stop doubting, but believe."　



Joh 20:28　 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"　



Joh 20:29　 Jesus told him, "Is it because you have seen me that you have believed? How blessed are those who have never seen me and yet have believed!"　


The Purpose of This Book
Joh 20:30　 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples that are not recorded in this book.　



Joh 20:31　 But these have been recorded so that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and so that through believing you may have life in his name.　

This is after the death, resurrection, and ascension, which many believe that He poured His actual blood on the mercy seat before Father in heaven. I believe this is so. This is the gospel, this good news brings salvation...the Spirit of Christ...which no man who has not...is of Him.

He tells them to wait for the power...and what will happen...the acts, the power to witness, and the power to live a life in the Spirit.

Its for all. Why deny?

 

[stonesoffire]

The Jews do have a doctrine of new birth. This is seen in circumcision as an infant which is on the 8th day, a new beginning in the culture of Israel. And then as older...they repent of sin, turn to God, and are baptized in water. Johns baptism. Cleansing in preparation for Messiah.

They have many water baptisms..some sects daily.

These ( disciples of John) were prepared to receive the truth.

 

[Enow]

The disciples were not saved until Pentecost because the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost would not be given until Jesus was no longer present with them as the Father will send the Comforter in Jesus's name.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.[SUP]2 [/SUP]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.[SUP]3 [/SUP]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also......

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:[SUP]20 [/SUP]At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 14:[SUP]23 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.[SUP]24 [/SUP]He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.[SUP]25 [/SUP]These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So the condition for the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost to be sent from the Father was when Jesus was no longer physically present with them.

So the filling of the Holy Ghost in Matthew 10th chapter which included the unbeliever & betrayer, Judas Iscariot was not for salvation and neither was the John 20th chapter event for salvation which did not include the Thomas the disciple.

Jesus has to be no longer physically present for His disciples and new believers to receive the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ, and so the disciples were not saved until the day of Pentecost.

John 7:[SUP]38 [/SUP]He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.[SUP]39 [/SUP](But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Jesus was not glorified until He had ascended to Heaven for us in preparing a way for us to be adopted as citizens of Heaven.

1 Peter 3:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit is receiving the promise of eternal life from Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.[SUP]13 [/SUP]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,[SUP]14 [/SUP]Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:[SUP]15 [/SUP]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:[SUP]17[/SUP]And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

To be born again is to be born of the Spirit and that comes about by believing in Jesus Christ.

John 3:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Jesus answers how as to when one is born again for it will happen after He had been crucified & after He had ascended.

John 3:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.[SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:[SUP]15 [/SUP]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.[SUP]17 [/SUP]For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So the 2 times that Jesus had given the Holy Spirit while He was on earth was not the promise from the Father regarding our salvation. Therefore the remaining disciples were not saved until Pentecost when His church was born with Him as the Head in Heaven.

 

[stonesoffire]

Well obviously, we do not agree.

 

[iamsoandso]

The issue is whether they were (Re)-baptised or were they baptised for the first time this is where the discussion always seems to drift.

 

[Dino246]

It seems rather silly to me that people argue about when exactly the original disciples were saved. That situation was unique. We are not sharing the gospel in the same context, so why worry about what happened when with the disciples? Just my observation.

 

[Locutus]

I'm guessing they probably were "saved" at some point.

enow seems to be a wee obsessed with this "saved" topic.

Soon we can rename him eknows.

 

[Lionjudah]

Those disciples who are baptized with water filled with holy spirit became lukewarm. Some of turned back to their sins and never repent again. When disciples struggles and never repent from their sins that means they fall and never they can call disciples again....