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There are so many errors in those posts it is impossible to know where to start.
I'll try and cover a few....
The 10 Com which include the Sabbath Ex 20, were given personally by God to the people and are not in/or part of Moses' law ONLY in as far as Moses RE-ITERATED them when the people REFUSED to hear GOD anymore, Ex 20v19, Deut 5v25. This does not make void the fact that GOD had already given the first 10 Com and therefore some people throughout the ages WILL HEAR THEM FROM GOD TO-DAY if you will hear His voice Heb 3&4 - only the disobedient will hear through Moses and which later were abolished on the cross Eph 2v15....hence their understanding that they (the 10) are no longer to be kept.
Remember _ God NEVER made a covenant past or present with anyone OUTSIDE ISRAEL - ALL who wanted to obey Him had to JOIN themselves with HIS people Israel. Christians do not have their own special preference with God apart from Israel - they all share in the same Ex 12 !!!
JESUS did not resurrect on Sunday but was ALREADY risen ! He was SEEN on sunday and that is what people base their 'sunday-observance' on...without Godly instruction. Same for 'breaking bread together on the first day of the week which was nothing more than 'social fellowshipping. There is no biblical mandate for 'official sunday worship - introduced by the RCC and ungodly men.
PAUL says we are to follow him 'as he followed Christ....when was it Jesus' custom to enter church/synagogue on sundays ? or Paul's custom ? ALL the original Apostles were sabbath-keepers unto death as they were persecuted and killed - after which we have sunday worship creeping in detatching gentiles from Israel and established by MEN. Don't be deceived .
I'll try and cover a few....
The 10 Com which include the Sabbath Ex 20, were given personally by God to the people and are not in/or part of Moses' law ONLY in as far as Moses RE-ITERATED them when the people REFUSED to hear GOD anymore, Ex 20v19, Deut 5v25. This does not make void the fact that GOD had already given the first 10 Com and therefore some people throughout the ages WILL HEAR THEM FROM GOD TO-DAY if you will hear His voice Heb 3&4 - only the disobedient will hear through Moses and which later were abolished on the cross Eph 2v15....hence their understanding that they (the 10) are no longer to be kept.
Remember _ God NEVER made a covenant past or present with anyone OUTSIDE ISRAEL - ALL who wanted to obey Him had to JOIN themselves with HIS people Israel. Christians do not have their own special preference with God apart from Israel - they all share in the same Ex 12 !!!
JESUS did not resurrect on Sunday but was ALREADY risen ! He was SEEN on sunday and that is what people base their 'sunday-observance' on...without Godly instruction. Same for 'breaking bread together on the first day of the week which was nothing more than 'social fellowshipping. There is no biblical mandate for 'official sunday worship - introduced by the RCC and ungodly men.
PAUL says we are to follow him 'as he followed Christ....when was it Jesus' custom to enter church/synagogue on sundays ? or Paul's custom ? ALL the original Apostles were sabbath-keepers unto death as they were persecuted and killed - after which we have sunday worship creeping in detatching gentiles from Israel and established by MEN. Don't be deceived .
[FONT="]Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Good question.
Oh, look, here's the answer!!!
Hebrews 7:15-19
[/FONT][FONT="]15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
[/FONT]
Good question.
Oh, look, here's the answer!!!
Hebrews 7:15-19
[/FONT][FONT="]15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
[/FONT]
The stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner
Psalm 118:22 RSV
To you therefore who believe he is precious
but for those who do not believe
The very stone which the builders rejected
has become the head of the corner.A rock that will make them fall
1 Peter 2:7 RSV
Christ is the corner stone. What you infer is that those who worship on a Sunday do not believe in Christ.and are not Christians which includes myself most people on this site and countless millions who have worshiped on a Sunday for the past 2000 years. That is the logical conclusion following your remarks. I only wish you would have been straight and just come out with it.
Psalm 118:22 RSV
To you therefore who believe he is precious
but for those who do not believe
The very stone which the builders rejected
has become the head of the corner.A rock that will make them fall
1 Peter 2:7 RSV
Christ is the corner stone. What you infer is that those who worship on a Sunday do not believe in Christ.and are not Christians which includes myself most people on this site and countless millions who have worshiped on a Sunday for the past 2000 years. That is the logical conclusion following your remarks. I only wish you would have been straight and just come out with it.
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All I am saying is Sabbath is Sabbath. Their is no longer any condemnation in Messiah so if you are guilty in your self it is on this count, that Messiah redeemed us to worship the Father in truth and spirit. If we do sin it is from violation of the spirit of the law of Elohim which includes all commandments no matter how small. As such sin is violation of the law. We don't have need to fear Elohim? True fear of Elohim should lead us to repent or agree totally with God and that doesn't mean doing all the things written in the law but to simply try to practice rightousness of the law because Messiah is now revealed as the word of Elohim to us. If you don't see sin as sin or Sabbath as Sabbath you are Missing the point of repentance. What else was written down for us as a guide? There is nothing else that matters...
Keep the Sabbath, let Elohim seal you with His promise and find rest for your souls and real peace. Love to you from the most high John Talmid
Keep the Sabbath, let Elohim seal you with His promise and find rest for your souls and real peace. Love to you from the most high John Talmid
God created everything. On the 7th day he ceased and blessed that day and sanctified/set that day apart as Holy for Holy use. For me end of discussion. talk of the law can help but does not change this fact.
If God made it holy then its holy and I don't care how anyone argues it its still holy. It has been holy from the beginning.
If God made it holy then its holy and I don't care how anyone argues it its still holy. It has been holy from the beginning.
And you think Heb 7v16 refers to the 'sabbath ?
please read Heb 9v10 to find the real answer to the question of 'carnal commandments - it says...
'which stood only in 'meats and drinks and divers washings and 'carnal ordinances imposed on them......absolutely nothing to do with God's 'spiritual Sabbath.
It might help to 'discern scripture before making false statements regarding the Sabbath and leading people astray.
please read Heb 9v10 to find the real answer to the question of 'carnal commandments - it says...
'which stood only in 'meats and drinks and divers washings and 'carnal ordinances imposed on them......absolutely nothing to do with God's 'spiritual Sabbath.
It might help to 'discern scripture before making false statements regarding the Sabbath and leading people astray.
For quite a while, wives job has been on ot, 10 hr days, sometimes they ask voluntary Sabbath and she refuses, but then they also make mandatory at times. She can retire and be chill the rest of her life, but she wants a couple more years, i hope in a couple years, she doesn't say only 1 more. It hurts when they force her to work all this ot.
You've got to be kidding.
Gods spiritual sabbath is kept by carnal people in their own understanding and strength on saturday only?
You really can't put the pieces together here?
The Lord says His Words are Spirit and they are Life. He says come to Him and He will give you Rest.
Ephesians 2 says salvation is not by your work but it is the gift of God.
How in the wide world of sports do you think going to church on saturdays is keeping the sabbath when Christ says without me you can do nothing?
You can't see that everything that is required by the law is given freely by Christ in Salvation?
Well, that's ok. I'll keep reminding you.
Gods spiritual sabbath is kept by carnal people in their own understanding and strength on saturday only?
You really can't put the pieces together here?
The Lord says His Words are Spirit and they are Life. He says come to Him and He will give you Rest.
Ephesians 2 says salvation is not by your work but it is the gift of God.
How in the wide world of sports do you think going to church on saturdays is keeping the sabbath when Christ says without me you can do nothing?
You can't see that everything that is required by the law is given freely by Christ in Salvation?
Well, that's ok. I'll keep reminding you.
I can see how you've concluded this. It makes perfect sense the way it's currently rendered in modern versions, but this is one of those passages that was terribly translated in error...then taken out of context from the rest of the letter...and then rewritten over and over for later bible versions with its error firmly baked in.
1. If we start from the beginning of the letter Paul establishes the context:
Colossians 1:25-29
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
So Paul is establishing that he - as one of the ministers in the body of Christ - was to *warn* and *teach* every man (in the body of Christ) in order that they are presented as "perfect" in Christ.
2. So here we see ministers in the body of Christ teach and warn the body of Christ...but against what?
Colossians 2:8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
So the body of Christ is warned *against* following the traditions of men after the "ways" of the world, instead of following after Christ. Paul says "beware" of anyone's philosophy that convinces you to follow the way the world worships. Again, this is in contrast to following "after Christ" and his way.
3. Paul continues, explaining why Christians are not to follow the ways of the world...
Colossians 2:9-15
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
So Paul says Christians are not to follow the ways of the world because they, through Christ, have overcome the world. In overcoming, the *specific* ordinances that were contrary to believers were tossed out...but which specific ordinances were against them exactly (...this is answered in point 5)?
4. "Therefore..."
Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; De [but] Soma [body] Tou [(of) the] Christou [Christ].
From the start of the letter Paul establishes that he, and by implication other ministers in the body, are warning and teaching the body to stay away from the ways of the world with regard to worship. He says to beware of being talked into following the traditions of men and not following after Christ, because Christians have overcome the world with Christ. Therefore, let no one judge the Christian in what they eat or drink or holidays and Sabbath days they observe BUT Christians themselves; but the body of Christ. Jewish folks can't, secular folks can't, folks of other religions can't.
Who better to judge a Christian's walk than another mature Christian (like Paul did in all of his letters; he judged the Christian's walk)? Also, notice that Paul says the Sabbath days ARE a shadow of good things (still) to come. He did not say the Sabbath days WERE a shadow of good things that "have come" or that "(already) came". From all that was revealed to Paul, he understood the future prophetic fulfillment of the Sabbath day (and remaining High Sabbath feast days) better than anyone.
---
Aside:
King James' translators were commanded to italicize any words they *added* to the translation that did not exist in the original text...and the word "is" does not exist in the original passage of Colossians 2:17. So the true phrase is "de soma tou Christou". I encourage you to research 'king James version and italicized words' to confirm what I'm saying.
---
5. Paul continues his warning...
Colossians 2:18-23
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
"Why are you subject to the ordinances after the commandments and doctrines of men as if you're still of the world?" Paul is warning Christians against following the religious traditions of men in contrast to following the ways of God after Christ, which is the same exact thing Christ was arguing about during his ministry.
Mark 7:3
The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders.
Mark 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Matthew 15:7-9
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you:
8‘These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. 9 They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the commandments of men.
----
So I guess the question is this: Is observing the Sabbath a tradition created by man...or is it the word of God?
1. If we start from the beginning of the letter Paul establishes the context:
Colossians 1:25-29
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
So Paul is establishing that he - as one of the ministers in the body of Christ - was to *warn* and *teach* every man (in the body of Christ) in order that they are presented as "perfect" in Christ.
2. So here we see ministers in the body of Christ teach and warn the body of Christ...but against what?
Colossians 2:8
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
So the body of Christ is warned *against* following the traditions of men after the "ways" of the world, instead of following after Christ. Paul says "beware" of anyone's philosophy that convinces you to follow the way the world worships. Again, this is in contrast to following "after Christ" and his way.
3. Paul continues, explaining why Christians are not to follow the ways of the world...
Colossians 2:9-15
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
So Paul says Christians are not to follow the ways of the world because they, through Christ, have overcome the world. In overcoming, the *specific* ordinances that were contrary to believers were tossed out...but which specific ordinances were against them exactly (...this is answered in point 5)?
4. "Therefore..."
Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; De [but] Soma [body] Tou [(of) the] Christou [Christ].
From the start of the letter Paul establishes that he, and by implication other ministers in the body, are warning and teaching the body to stay away from the ways of the world with regard to worship. He says to beware of being talked into following the traditions of men and not following after Christ, because Christians have overcome the world with Christ. Therefore, let no one judge the Christian in what they eat or drink or holidays and Sabbath days they observe BUT Christians themselves; but the body of Christ. Jewish folks can't, secular folks can't, folks of other religions can't.
Who better to judge a Christian's walk than another mature Christian (like Paul did in all of his letters; he judged the Christian's walk)? Also, notice that Paul says the Sabbath days ARE a shadow of good things (still) to come. He did not say the Sabbath days WERE a shadow of good things that "have come" or that "(already) came". From all that was revealed to Paul, he understood the future prophetic fulfillment of the Sabbath day (and remaining High Sabbath feast days) better than anyone.
---
Aside:
King James' translators were commanded to italicize any words they *added* to the translation that did not exist in the original text...and the word "is" does not exist in the original passage of Colossians 2:17. So the true phrase is "de soma tou Christou". I encourage you to research 'king James version and italicized words' to confirm what I'm saying.
---
5. Paul continues his warning...
Colossians 2:18-23
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
"Why are you subject to the ordinances after the commandments and doctrines of men as if you're still of the world?" Paul is warning Christians against following the religious traditions of men in contrast to following the ways of God after Christ, which is the same exact thing Christ was arguing about during his ministry.
Mark 7:3
The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders.
Mark 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Matthew 15:7-9
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you:
8‘These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. 9 They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the commandments of men.
----
So I guess the question is this: Is observing the Sabbath a tradition created by man...or is it the word of God?
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They failed by not entering in. You testify of the law of sin and death which was put to an end. If you can't be graceful enough to see I testify of the law of the spirit and life. If you don't approach the good works for men to walk in what good would it be for Messiah to wash your feet? I tell you and I believe it's scripturally accurate that you are not truthful with rightousness and the word of truth. At least you preach the cross but have never come to really know him or you would try to understand.
Is the seventh day Holy?
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Still enough for me.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Still enough for me.
Is it OK for me to steal your car, murder your wife or take the Lords name in vain? If i try to obey these laws, am i a Jew that hasn't learnt grace. If i obey these commandments am i forgetting that Jesus has given me salvation by faith?
When i keep the Sabbath to be righteous before God it's useless because my righteousness is as filthy rages, but if i obey the Sabbath because i love God, i'm doing the same as those that choose not to murder or steal because they love God.
If you love me keep my commandments. Jesus said.
When i keep the Sabbath to be righteous before God it's useless because my righteousness is as filthy rages, but if i obey the Sabbath because i love God, i'm doing the same as those that choose not to murder or steal because they love God.
If you love me keep my commandments. Jesus said.
Why indeed.
Matthew 5:48 [FONT="]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
James 2:10 [/FONT] [FONT="]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Galatians 3:10-12
[/FONT][FONT="]10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[/FONT]
Matthew 5:48 [FONT="]Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
James 2:10 [/FONT] [FONT="]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Galatians 3:10-12
[/FONT][FONT="]10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.[/FONT]
How can you make days holy when you rebel against the Lord's instructions?
We are told to work for six days of a week and rest on the first day. Christ said He didn't change that. If you tell God no, it is not how I interpret your word so that is not what I will do then you are rebeling against the Lord, not loving Him. Your days are spent in rebellion, not making them holy.
We are told to work for six days of a week and rest on the first day. Christ said He didn't change that. If you tell God no, it is not how I interpret your word so that is not what I will do then you are rebeling against the Lord, not loving Him. Your days are spent in rebellion, not making them holy.
You don't seem to understand the very scriptures you quote....you make/put no difference between the ''works of the law which are physical and abolished AND the moral/spiritual code of the law which is eternal. But that is not surprising when people treat badly/trample underfoot what is HOLY to GOD.
When scripture speaks of keeping the WHOLE law it speaks of the 10 Commandments ONLY which still apply to all people = love God and neighbour !!! These are a law on their own, by themselves and were not abolished with the commandments contained IN ORDINANCES/WORKS Eph 2v15, Col 2v14-23. Heb 9v10.
Does not JESUS still teach on 'loving God and neighbour ? Of course He does because they are ESTABLASHID in His Fathers PRINCIPLES/Commandments which Jesus Himself kept.
Nobody - at least I am not - teaches about keeping the 'works of the law !!! (come to think of it some do and it causes 'enmity and confusion).
When scripture speaks of keeping the WHOLE law it speaks of the 10 Commandments ONLY which still apply to all people = love God and neighbour !!! These are a law on their own, by themselves and were not abolished with the commandments contained IN ORDINANCES/WORKS Eph 2v15, Col 2v14-23. Heb 9v10.
Does not JESUS still teach on 'loving God and neighbour ? Of course He does because they are ESTABLASHID in His Fathers PRINCIPLES/Commandments which Jesus Himself kept.
Nobody - at least I am not - teaches about keeping the 'works of the law !!! (come to think of it some do and it causes 'enmity and confusion).