GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[mailmandan]

=mailmandan;3440085]

YES Dan, they created their own "religion" with their own Laws and traditions. This is what I have been showing you all along. The Mainstream Preachers of His time were NOT trying to earn Salvation by following God's instructions as you all preach. They were trying to earn Salvation by following their own "religion" they created. These people were the only game in town because everything anyone knew about God and His Word was filtered through them and their "Commandments of Men".

Many people set out to follow God's instructions on THEIR terms and not His. Judaism was not 100% their own religion with their own laws and traditions with no connection to the law of Moses or the rest of God's word whatsoever.

Matthew 12:2 - But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath." So the Sabbath is their own religion?

Acts 23:8 - The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things. Is the resurrection, angels and spirits traditions of men?

The Judaizers taught that in order to truly be right with God, one must conform to the Mosaic Law. Circumcision, especially, was promoted as necessary for salvation. Gentiles had to become Jewish proselytes first, and then they could come to Christ.

At the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, a group of Judaizers opposed Paul and Barnabas. Some men who belonged to the party of the Pharisees insisted that Gentiles could not be saved unless they were first circumcised and obeyed the Law of Moses.

The doctrine of the Judaizers was a mixture of grace (through Christ) and works (through the keeping of the Law). *Hmm.. that sounds familiar?* This false doctrine was dealt with in Acts 15 and strongly condemned in the book of Galatians. You are not telling the whole truth. Although they ADDED their own laws and traditions to the law of Moses, they were not completely disconnected from the law of Moses, just as Roman Catholicism mixes traditions of men with Christian beliefs.

This is one reason Jesus came to them in the first place.

Jesus especially singled them out because they were SELF RIGHTEOUS. The same spirit of self righteousness lives in those who pervert the Gospel today.

Not all Jews were deceived though as it is written. Zechariahs and Elisabeth didn't follow their religion, but followed the True Gospel that the Bible teaches.

So what Gospel did they follow? I've heard false teachers claim that Zechariah and Elisabeth were justified by the works of the law. Ecclesiastes 7:20 - Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins. Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

So much for that. Zacharias and Elisabeth were not righteous (in right standing with God) through their own goodness (Isaiah 64:6; Romans 3:10), but their faith was accounted to them as righteousness, just as with Noah (Hebrews 11:7) and Abraham (Romans 4:3). Even under the Old Testament, the only way to be in right standing with God was by faith (Habakkuk 2:4; Galatians 3:11). No one has perfectly obeyed the law (Romans 3:23), so faith had to be put in the mercy and forgiveness of God which was illustrated by the Old Testament blood sacrifices. The Jewish nation for the most part lacked the understanding of justification by faith (Romans 10:1-4) and had fallen into the deception of seeking to establish their own righteousness.

You will notice in Luke 1:6 that the Bible doesn't say that Zechariah and Elisabeth were sinless but rather blameless. Through their faith in the blood sacrifices (which were symbolic of Christ), God put the blame for their sins on the Lamb (John 1:29). They accepted God's way and sought to live by it, but without FAITH, they could not be considered blameless by committing theirselves to walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord. In Philippians 3:6, before Paul was saved, we see him describing himself; "Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless." The NIV says, "as for legalistic righteousness, faultless."

Notice the difference in how scriptures refer to them as opposed to the Pharisees. Nah, you can't see it. this is one of the volumes of scriptures you must ignore to further your religious traditions.

Notice in Philippians 3:9 that Paul clearly states be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith. Paul mentions numerous times in scripture that man is not justified by the law, but you can't see it because you must ignore this to promote your "works based" false gospel.

So if you can't accept these Biblical truths then you can't understand His Gospel.

I understand Biblical truths, but I reject your perversion of the Gospel. You have a "different" gospel (Galatians 1:6-9).

Like the Pharisees who did the same thing, you are left to create your own Salvation centered around your false belief that the Pharisees were trying to earn Salvation by following God's Laws. This leads you to preach that God's Laws are against us and tell more falsehood regarding Col. 2, and Galatians and Romans.

Salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9). That's not my own salvation, that is "THUS SAITH THE LORD." Whether the Pharisees were trying to follow God's Laws for the most part or only in part mixed with their own traditions, it doesn't matter because the self righteous Pharisees trusted in themselves that they were righteous, rejected Christ and were without authentic faith. *That is the heart of the issue.

Believers are not under law, but are under grace (Romans 6:14). The Law is our school master and not our Savior. Galatians 3:24 - Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

And when God's Word corrects you, as it has done many times, you work to discredit the messenger, another tactic used by the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time.

Another delusion from your delusional world of UNBELIEF.

A man that preaches things about God's Word that isn't true is not doing God's Will.

More IRONY.

They claim they are, they believe they are, but the Word teaches differently. And regardless whether you follow God's Instruction of your own mind and ability that Jesus gave us, or if Jesus empowers us to obey, the bottom line is those children of God follow His Instructions. You preach against such life changes, calling anyone who believes EVERY WORD of God a legalist or whatever the insult of the day is.

Another STRAW MAN ARGUMENT and perverting the Gospel is not following God's instructions. Christ has drastically changed my life since my conversion. Praise God! True children of God follow His instructions (not the instructions of false religions and cults) and do not mix law and grace.

You keep saying I believe I can forgive myself. Or do so some "Work" to forgive myself. I'm really tired of this same old lie. Following God's Instructions is essential to Salvation. If you don't believe this to be true then you don't believe the Jesus of the Bible.

I'm tired of your same old lies and straw man arguments. Now give me a list of God's instructions that you believe are essential to salvation IN ADDITION to what Paul said in Acts 16:31. ________________

When the Philippian jailor asked Paul and Silas, "what must I do to be saved in Acts 16:30, what long list of instructions did they give him in Acts 16:31? BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. Simple!

*1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who BELIEVE. When will you BELIEVE?

Christmas, your long haired Jesus, Halloween, Easter egg hunts, your Sabbath, etc. These are not the righteousness of God, these are man made righteousness.

LOL! More straw man arguments and ludicrous reasoning. I'm not looking to Christmas, Halloween, Easter egg hunts or a Sabbath day as my righteousness. Righteousness is found IN CHRIST, THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST. Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith. Praise God!

Passover, Feast of Unleavened bread, His Sabbath that He created for man, etc.. These are God's Righteousness. You are the ones who are ignorant of this truth. So you create your own righteousness and refuse to "SUBMIT" unto God's Righteousness, just like the Pharisees did.

It's actually YOU who is ignorant of the truth found in Philippians 3:9 and multiple other verses in scripture. You create your own righteousness based on "grace plus law, faith plus works" and refuse to 'SUBMIT" unto God's righteousness, just like the Pharisees did. (Difference in style, but same in substance -- "works based" false gospel). Romans 10:4 - For Christ is the END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to everyone who BELIEVES. When are you going to wake up and smell the coffee?

And anyone who humbles themselves unto God's Righteousness you insult and work to discredit, just like the Pharisees.

Having your own righteousness, which is from the law is not God's righteousness (Philippians 3:9). You pervert the Gospel and have self righteous issues, just like the Pharisees.

If Jesus came back today and got on this forum and said only those things He said in the Bible, you and your buddies would have Him labeled a "legalist" and you would be calling Him a Pharisee. Like He said, they hated Him first.

I neither hate Jesus, label Him a legalist or call Him a Pharisee. Both your theology and your logic is warped, just like the Pharisees.

 

[LoveGodForever]

I neither hate Jesus, label Him a legalist or call Him a Pharisee.

Hello MMD,

DO YOU KNOW JESUS ?

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3-4)

Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him. (1 John 3:6)


ARE YOU SAVED BY GRACE ?

By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name (Romans 1:5)


ARE YOU FOLLOWING GOD OR THE DEVIL ?

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother. (1 John 3:7-8; 10)


ARE YOU BORN AGAIN ?

Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9)


DO YOU LOVE JESUS MMD?

???????

.............

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31). God's Word says if we break one of the ten we stand guilty before God of breaking all the commandments of God (James 2:8-12). God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

If we break any of God’s Laws we stand guilty before God in SIN (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[garee]

Acts 23:8 - The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things. Is the resurrection, angels and spirits traditions of men?

The Judaizers taught that in order to truly be right with God, one must conform to the Mosaic Law. Circumcision, especially, was promoted as necessary for salvation. Gentiles had to become Jewish proselytes first, and then they could come to Christ.

At the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, a group of Judaizers opposed Paul and Barnabas. Some men who belonged to the party of the Pharisees insisted that Gentiles could not be saved unless they were first circumcised and obeyed the Law of Moses.

The doctrine of the Judaizers was a mixture of grace (through Christ) and works (through the keeping of the Law). *Hmm.. that sounds familiar?* This false doctrine was dealt with in Acts 15 and strongly condemned in the book of Galatians. You are not telling the whole truth. Although they ADDED their own laws and traditions to the law of Moses, they were not completely disconnected from the law of Moses, just as Roman Catholicism mixes traditions of men with Christian beliefs.

I would add it boils down to the word "faith" as to how we hear God by it. And it is not out of sight out of mind, the pagan foundation (no faith)

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

They failed to leave a distinction between the things of God not seen, the eternal, and those of men seen and therefore did not mix faith the unseen with that seen, so that can we have the spiritual unseen understanding... our Sabbath rest ..Sabbath being non a time sensitive word which today because of the oral tradition of men is a time sensitive word to some who do seek the kingdom by observation (sign)

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.. Heb 4:1

They were not disconnected from the law of Moses but rather again did not mix faith in what they heard or saw.. The law of Moses brought two kinds of laws.

One, moral laws to govern the whole world. and two, ceremonial laws used up until the time of reformation. They treated the ceremonial laws that were to govern ceremonies used to preach the gospel beforehand as if they were more than shadows of the things not seen but were hoping in performing them it was the evidence they were children of God. The same with many today with what they call sign gifts.

The Pharisees like the Sadducee's both walked by sight as if the Kingdom of God was of this world and it came by observation.

They both put their differences aside in order to make all that is written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) without effect by the oral traditions of men which they called a law of the fathers. The law of out of sight out of mind, in the end kill the wrong kind of misrepresented competition as if the kingdom of God was of this world .

They both required a sign before they would believe refusing to walk by the exclusive faith that comes from hearing God as it is written .Again not mixing faith in what they did see or hear.

Mat 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.

 

[garee]

LoveGodforever offered...And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3-4)

No man can keep all of the commandments perfectly. In James we are informed to violate the least is to be found guilty of the whole/perfect .There is no reduced wage of sin for those who think they try harder.

The word "keep" simply means to guard with all a person new heart new soul and mind. Only Christ can keep his law perfectly and pay the full wage of eternal damnation.

Either he makes us the liar which as soon as we are born go forth telling lies or we make him the liar.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.1Jo 1:6

No man could be found with a righteousness of their own . We are not to judge the grace of God that works in the affairs of men but get under that law and believe what it says .Or the one alternative we crucify Christ over and over every time we do deny him in unbelief (no faith )

Either we promote his grace as unmerited favor on our behalf... favored on behalf of his three day work of faith as a three day labor of His love or a person will find themselves in the Hebrews 6 boat crucifying the Christ over and over to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough.

Better things accompany salvation like actual total redemption (new spirit ,new heart, new soul ) and not just a taste of it and toss the grace aside.

The disciples as apostles played that dangerous game of "who is the greatest" every-time they misunderstood what Christ was saying not understanding the spiritual .Christ rebuked them and declared you know not what manner of spirit they were of.

 

[beta]

And if there is?

Then that will show they told a lie.

 

[LoveGodForever]

No man can keep all of the commandments perfectly. In James we are informed o violate the least is to be found guilty of the whole .There is no reduced wage of sin for those who think they try harder.

The word "keep" simply means to guard with all a person new heart new soul and mind. Only Christ can keep his law perfectly and pay the full wage of eternal damnation.

Either he makes us the liar which as soon as we are born go forth telling lies or we make him the liar.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.1Jo 1:6

No man could be found with a righteousness of their own . We are not to judge the grace of God that works in the affairs of men but get under that law and believe what it says .Or the one alternative we crucify Christ over and over every time we do deny him in unbelief (no faith )

Either we promote his grace as unmerited favor on our behalf... favored on behalf of his three day work of faith as a three day labor of His love or a person will find themselves in the Hebrews 6 boat crucifying the Christ over and over to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough.

Better things accompany salvation like actual total redemption (new spirit ,new heart, new soul ) and not just a taste of it and toss the grace aside.

The disciples as apostles played that dangerous game of "who is the greatest" every-time they misunderstood what Christ was saying not understanding the spiritual .Christ rebuked them and declared you know not what manner of spirit they were of.

Hi Garee,

Nope that is not true you may need to re-read the scriptures. God's Word reads as it reads and is supported by other scriptures. For example the scriptures you question that I posted earlier......

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

the GREEK WORD "KEEP" does indeed mean gaurd as part of it's meaning but the full meaning of the word is

STRONGS
Meaning; KEEP G5083 τηρέω tereo (tee-re'-ō) v.
1. to guard (from loss or injury).
2. (properly) by keeping the eye upon, i.e. to note (a prophecy).
3. to fulfil a command.
4. (by implication) to detain in custody.
5. (thus, figuratively) to maintain.
6. (by extension) to withhold for personal ends.
7. (thus, figuratively) to keep unmarried.

It GREEK Word KEEP also means to [3] fulful a command [5] to maintain to [6] withold for personal ends. So it is important to consider the context of the setting the scriptures is being applied in.

We go on to read in the scriptures that SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; James 2:11; Romans 3:30).

So SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 Commandments (James 2:8-12)

Now that we have a definition of SIN from God's WORD let's look at the rest of the CONTEXT to how the scritpure is being used and substitute the word SIN for breaking God's Commandments or KEEP God's Commandments [GREEK; 4] fulfill a command.

1 John 3
3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whosoever commits sin <breaking God's Commandments> transgresses also the law: for sin <breaking God's Commandments> is the transgression of the law.
5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins <breaking God's Commandments>; and in him is no sin <breaking God's Commandments> .
6, Whosoever abides in him sins not <fulfil a command> : whosoever sins <breaking God's Commandments> hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness <does Commandments Ps 119:172> is righteous, even as he is righteous <Obedient; obey>.
8, He that commits sin <breaking God's Commandments>is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin<breaking God's Commandments>; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin,<breaking God's Commandments> because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness<does Commandments Ps 119:172> is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

So as you can see the GREEK meaning of the WORD KEEP also means to FULFILL a Command the CONTEXT of the scriptures is BREAKING GOD'S COMMADMENTS and those who are God's people and those who are NOT are distinguished by their OBEDIENCE Fulfilling of God's Commandments.

Which is why Jesus says. IF you LOVE me KEEP [FULFIL] my COMMANDMENTS....

Paul says the same..

Romans 13
8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
9, For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
10, Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

and again...
Romans 3
31, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law.

So yep God's Word says what it says and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it. IF you are still in your SINS you need to SEEK him in repentance and forgiveness.

.............

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1John 1:6

This is true for all of us. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. There is none righteous no not one. This scripture as has been shown above does not say that we stay in our sins only that all of us have sinned. If we had not we would not need a Savior.

Hope this helps.

.......................

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31). God's Word says if we break one of the ten we stand guilty before God of breaking all the commandments of God (James 2:8-12). God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

If we break any of God’s Laws we stand guilty before God in SIN (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[beta]

The opposition here is to denying Christs work, calling The Sinai Covenant the gospel and pretending to judge and condemn believers over whether they ritually keep the commandments given to the Jews in the wilderness and breaking Torah apart into pieces to alternately judge one another by and to ignore. The opposition is to wholly perverting what the apostle wrote by the Spirit of God in Colossians.

Let no one judge you over sabbath keeping.

The opposition is to you and everyone else in this thread trying to judge people over sabbath keeping. We are not under Law, but grace, and the opposition is and has been from the beginning, opposition to a false gospel of works and a denial of the reality of His finished work.

And You are NOT judging the Sabbath-keeper ??? you obviously DISagree with us....let's just leave it there !

 

[posthuman]

And You are NOT judging the Sabbath-keeper ??? you obviously DISagree with us....let's just leave it there !

I am confirming that the Christian is not to allow anyone to judge them over observance of a sabbath day any more than they should allow anyone to judge them over a new moon observance. As the scripture says.

Do you think I honor the sabbath?

I don't recall judging anyone for honouring a sabbath, ever. What I've protested is the misuse of scripture, the abuse of private interpretation, the denial of the sufficiency of Christ, and the insinuation that people who believe and are immersed in Christ are damned to eternal hell because they're either not Hebrew enough or because they reject Ellen White. I reject the condemnation and murder being sown here.

 

[posthuman]

Then that will show they told a lie.

Have we died in Christ yes or no

 

[LoveGodForever]

I am confirming that the Christian is not to allow anyone to judge them over observance of a sabbath day any more than they should allow anyone to judge them over a new moon observance. As the scripture says.

Do you think I honor the sabbath?

I don't recall judging anyone for honouring a sabbath, ever. What I've protested is the misuse of scripture, the abuse of private interpretation, the denial of the sufficiency of Christ, and the insinuation that people who believe and are immersed in Christ are damned to eternal hell because they're either not Hebrew enough or because they reject Ellen White. I reject the condemnation and murder being sown here.

Hello PH,

You are NOT immersed in Christ if you are breaking God's Commandments (1 John 3:6-8; 1 John 2:3-4).

If you are still in your SINS you do not KNOW him who calls you in LOVE to LOVE and need to seek him while he mayt be found. Tomorrow may be too late.

.......


In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31). God's Word says if we break one of the ten we stand guilty before God of breaking all the commandments of God (James 2:8-12). God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

If we break any of God’s Laws we stand guilty before God in SIN (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[LoveGodForever]

Have we died in Christ yes or no

You have NOT died to Christ if you are still in your SINS. If you are still in your SINS you do not KNOW him. We do not die to Christ but to SIN that we should NOT live any longer therein.

.............

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31). God's Word says if we break one of the ten we stand guilty before God of breaking all the commandments of God (James 2:8-12). God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

If we break any of God’s Laws we stand guilty before God in SIN (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

 

[Gabriel2020]

Amen, he only gave ten,and those are the ones we must keep. God knew what commandments were important for man to live a righteous life.

 

[Endoscopy]

Hello MMD,

You should listen to what Beta is sharing with you my friend. If you do not KNOW what the Gospel is how can you KNOW God's POWER of unto SALVATION or what salvation is from?

Your Gospel only provides you with a FORM OF GODLINESS because you deny God's POWER to save you from your SINS (2 Tim 3:15). It is to these people that Jesus says I NEVER KNEW YOU DEPART FROM ME YOU WHO SIN (Matthew 7:23)

HOW DO WE KNOW IF WE KNOW GOD?.....

1 John 3
3, And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
4, HE THAT SAYS HE KNOWS HIM AND KEEPETH NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NO IN HIM.

HOW DO WE KNOW IF WE LOVE GOD?.....

John 14
15, IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS .

Let's look at what your scriptures are really saying.....



You leave out the CHAPTER CONTEXT and do not understand the WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT to interpret the scripture as meaning you God will give you a loving feeling without the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE through FAITH. Let's look at the within Chapter CONTEXT of 1 John 3:10....

1 John 3
3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

What is sin?.....

4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NETIHER SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM.

v5 IN JESUS (the Word) IS NO SIN;
v6 THIS IS WHERE WE ARE TO ABIDE by FAITH (see John 15:1-10) this is HOW we are to bear the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE to LOVE GOD AND MAN. LOVE is the FULFILLING of God's LAW (10 Commandments) written on the heart to LOVE. This is the NEW COVENANT promise in those who BELIEVE. THESE are the TRUE BELIEVERS who are BORN again IN LOVE to LOVE and the circumcision of the heart through FAITH.

7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

This is what John was talking about earlier in 1 John 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Let no man deceive you; he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous and again Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Let's be clear here, what is RIGHTEOUSNESS that we are talking about here? Psa 119:172

My tongue shall speak of thy word: for ALL THY COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS. So we have any RIGHTEOUSNESS? But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS [are] AS FILTHY RAGS; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. (Isa 64:6). ABIDING IN HIM is where our RIGHTEOUSNESS is but this is REAL not imaginary. It is God's POWER to save a SINNER from SIN (John 8:31-36; Romans 1:16)

8, HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil (SIN).
If you are still practicing SIN you are not following God. If you are breaking God's Commandments and still practicing SIN you do not KNOW God v6 and 1 John 2:3-4and you are following the devil.

9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
This is the key here and is why Jesus says, Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again,1 he cannot see the kingdom of God. Whosoever is BORN of God does not practice SIN because he is ABIDING IN HIM (the WORD) throught FAITH. The seed is the WORD OF GOD (Luke 8:11)

Now the within CHAPTER CONTEXT is...

v4 SIN is breaking God's LAW
v5 Jesus came to take AWAY OUR SINS
v6 IF YOU ARE ABIDING IN HIM (the Word through FAITH) YOU WILL NOT PRACTICE SIN
v7 DONT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU. IT is those who DO NOT SIN (FRUIT OF OBEDIENCE) that are RIGHTEOUS
v8 THOSE THAT COMMIT SIN ARE FOLLOWING THE DEVIL; JESUS CAME TO DESTROY SIN
v9 IF YOU ARE BORN AGAIN YOU WILL NOT PRACTICE SIN BECAUSE OF FAITH IN GOD'S WORD

NOW that we have looked at the CONTEXT of v10 it does not seem to say what you are saying does it? Now let's look at the within SCRIPTURE CONTEXT....

10, In THIS the CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST, AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL: WHOSOEVER DOES NOT DO RIGHTEOUSNESS IS NOT OF GOD, neither he that loveth not his

In THIS (summarising what has been discussed within the CHAPTER CONTEXT), that is, those (THE CHILDREN of GOD) who through FAITH have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE and those who are breaking God's COMMANDMENTS (the Children of the Devil) are MANIFEST (MADE KNOWN) WHOSOEVER DOES NOT DO RIGHTEOUSNESS IS NOT OF GOD (All your Commandments are RIGHTEOUSNESS - Psalms 119:172). Thos who SIN and break God's Commandments are not from God. Only those who through FAITH have the FRUIT of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW are HIS CHILDREN. Those in DISOBEDIENCE are the Children of the Devil.

Not going the way you expected it is?

.......................


What does it mean to LOVE in the two GREAT COMMANDMENTS TO LOVE?

Deuteronomy 6
5, And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19
18, Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Did you know Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament scriptures in Matthew 22?

Matthew 22
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38, This is the first and great commandment.
39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40,ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

Did you notice that Jesus says that on the two great commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets?

links to.......

James 2
8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11,For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Now look at what Jamessays he is also quoting the second great commandment ofLOVE thy neighbor and calls it the royal LAW then he continues to link LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments

links to.........

Romans 13
8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9,For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now notice what Paul says; he is once again linking the second great commandment of LOVE thy neighbor and continues to link LOVE to OBEDIENCE to God's 10 commandments and shows that LOVE is OBEDIENCE (fulfills) to God's LAW the 10 commandment.

links to......

Matthew 19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17, And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:BUT IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
18, He saith unto him, WHICH? JESUS SAID,THOU SHALT NOT MURDER, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, HONOR YOU MOTHER AND FATHER AND THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF
20, The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21, Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Jesus showed him that he may have fulfilled His duty of love to his neighbor but not to God breaking commandment 1 and 2 loving riches more than God

So YES MMD Jesus is quoting the 10 commandments in Matthew 19 and Jesus, James and Paul all agree together that LOVE is OBEDIENCE to God's LAW (10 commandments)

1 John 4
6, We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7, Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; andevery one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8, He that loveth not knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE

1 John 5
3,For this is the LOVE of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14
15,If you LOVE me keep my commandments
Yes seems like James and John and Paul all agree with Jesus that on the two GREAT commandments of LOVE hand all the LAW and the prophets.

.............

My friend unless you are BORN AGAIN to LOVE you will not see the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. God's SPIRIT is ONLY given to those who through FAITH in his WORD OBEY HIM (Acts 5:32). If you are sill in your SINS you DO NOT HAVE the Holy Spirit.

IF you are still in your SINS you have not SEEN him or KNOW HIM. This should be a WARNING to you to turn away from SIN and BELIEVE the Gospel * EVERY WORD OF GOD.

God loves you and wants you to be ready for his return. If you hear his voice please harden not your heart. Search the scriptures and see if these things be so.

.............

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30-31). God's Word says if we break one of the ten we stand guilty before God of breaking all the commandments of God (James 2:8-12). God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) and if we break it like any of the other commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN (Exodus 20:1-17).

If we break any of God’s Laws we stand guilty before God in SIN (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

Simple concept on boards that obviously you choose to ignore. The longer the post the fewer people will read it. Two long posts in a row are very ignorable. Therefore most will ignore them. Keep it short and to the point. A section of scripture and a short discussion of it.

 

[beta]

Simple concept on boards that obviously you choose to ignore. The longer the post the fewer people will read it. Two long posts in a row are very ignorable. Therefore most will ignore them. Keep it short and to the point. A section of scripture and a short discussion of it.

Although I like and agree with what LGF has to say these repeated long posts are not serving a purpose when they are not read. We should feed the Word of God with a TEAspoon because of it's 'potency and power, shovelling it on peoples plates to excess will end up underfoot to be trampled on and soiled/turned into dung.
God's Word needs to be served respectfully and only as much as can be digested....when rejected stop feeding...is my opinion !

 

[LoveGodForever]

Simple concept on boards that obviously you choose to ignore. The longer the post the fewer people will read it. Two long posts in a row are very ignorable. Therefore most will ignore them. Keep it short and to the point. A section of scripture and a short discussion of it.

Although I like and agree with what LGF has to say these repeated long posts are not serving a purpose when they are not read. We should feed the Word of God with a TEAspoon because of it's 'potency and power, shovelling it on peoples plates to excess will end up underfoot to be trampled on and soiled/turned into dung.
God's Word needs to be served respectfully and only as much as can be digested....when rejected stop feeding...is my opinion !

Thank you friends for your thoughts. What I hear in secret I must preach on the housetop. Things are not always as they seem. The scriptures shared are not always for those who they are written for.

I only plant the seed where it falls only God knows. Who they are meant for they are meant for. Who they are mean't for none know but those who God guides to read. I will write as I feel God leads me to write whether small or detailed. All I know is I must share His Word for all to see.

They are God's Words and not mine. Freely I have received so freely I must give to all that have ears to hear.

I love God's Word. Maybe sometimes I write too much, only God knows, but those open to the truth will hear his Voice because they are His Words not mine. I never get tired of hearing God's Word do you? Many are called but few are chosen.

If your lamp has gone out how will you find your way with the road is dark and narrow? Jesus is the light of the World. His Word is a lamp and a light to my path when the road is dark and narrow.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word...

 

[lightbearer]

Amen! Leave it to SDA's to twist this simple message in Romans 10:8-10 into salvation through obeying His commandments and statutes that are written in the book of the law.

We don't have salvation through obeying HIS Commandments. We have salvation through Christ's indwelling. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(Rom 9:31-33 KJV)

What is this Faith? Christ; the Word in our hearts and in our mouths and in our minds.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
​

Praise be to GOD the Father; Maker of Heaven and earth and Whom HE has sent! By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for (into) obedience to the Faith among all nations, for his name: For the just shall live by Faith. This Faith in which we preach! For GOD has said, this is the Covenant I will make with them, I will put my laws into their hearts and into their minds will I write them. And their sins will no wise be brought to my remembrance! Now where remission of these is; there is no more offering for sin. For by one offering HE have perfected forever them that are sanctified. Therefore having boldness to enter into the Holiest of all through the blood of Jesus. Through the veil; that is His flesh; the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Not I but Christ!
(Rom 1:5 Heb 10)

Misguided modern day teachers of the law are deceived into believing they will be saved based on their works/justification by law (Romans 10:5), rather than by faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22-28).

Faith in and of Christ. For we are dead nevertheless we live yet not us, but Christ liveth in us. And the Life we now live in the flesh we live by the Faith of the Son of GOD. Christ in us the Hope of Glory. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.

In Romans 10, Paul quotes from Deuteronomy 30 and makes comparisons with Christ:

Because Christ was what GOD was speaking. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being blended together to the faith; to the ones that heard it.
(Heb 4:2)

Moses said that no one needed to ascend to heaven to bring down the law again (Deuteronomy 30:12); God had already freely given the law. Paul makes a comparison: in the same way, he says, no one needs to ascend to heaven to bring down Christ again: God already sent him freely (Romans 10:6). Moses also said that no one needed to descend into the depths of the sea again (Deuteronomy 30:13); God had already redeemed his people and brought them through the sea. Paul makes another comparison: no one needs to descend to the depths, as if to bring Christ up from the dead; God already raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:7).

Yes he was willing to circumcise their hearts with the circumcision made without hands; the circumcision of Christ. Remember Hebrew 4:2.

Christ (our Faith) in us is the Hope of Glory. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.For in HIM we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also HIS offspring. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity (our bondage to sin) captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(Eph 4:4-8 KJV)

Romans 10:6-8 is a quote from Deut. 30:10-14. Paul paraphrased it so that they would look it up. We will start in verse six of Deut. so that it is clear that the Gospel was taught and available since Moses if not before.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
(Deu 30:6 KJV)

The fulfillment of this circumcision from GOD of Christ is stated in Deut 30:10-14. The readers of this letter would have been drawn to this passage from the beginning of the letter. It is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

(Rom 2:28-29 KJV)

Which GOD promised to do in Deut. 30:6. Which when he did he then spoke the fulfilment of it in verses 10-14. Please take notice to the present tense.



If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the wordis very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

(Deut 30:10-14 KJV)

The LXX translation of this text adds "and in thy hand".


With the above text in mind please note that the phrases "HIS commandments and HIS statutes which are written in this book of the law"and "the Word" are being used synonymously. In this instance they are interchangeable. Please take notice that in Deut. 30 the Judgments are not mentioned.


With that being established let's take a look at Romans 10:6-8 now.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from aboveOr, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

(Rom 10:6-8 KJV)

So while the Israelis and Romans were reading this letter they would have been reading the Pentateuch and some of the other books from the Old Testament also. Actually with more regard. When they came to this verse they would of seen the similarities to Deut, and would have looked up the verses there and read them in parallel. In doing so would have tied everything together synonymously keeping everything in harmony to one another.
.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law;
​

the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh;.) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

With the above understanding of verses 6-8; when they read verse four they would have understood it as Christ being the goal of the law for righteousness sake in the putting off the body of Sin through the indwelling of Christ. No longer of the letter but of HIS Spirit.
And they two shall be one flesh. The Body of Christ; the Temple of GOD. For it is GOD that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. As Jesus said, "HE doeth work"!

​

​

 

[LoveGodForever]

Wishing all who love him who first loved us a very HAPPY SABBATH from the future (my time).

A time of rest and peace from the cares of the World. A time to REMEBER and spend time with him who calls us in LOVE to LOVE.

The appointed time with our father in HEAVEN who calls us together follow him in LOVE.

A time delight in with thanks giving and praise. A time for sharing and caring.

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

HAPPY SABBATH TO ONE AND ALL!

 

[lightbearer]

On the other hand therr is Paul's lament.

Romans 7 NIV

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

In regards to chapter 7 in Romans. The Christian walk is a battle of the old man vs the new. The old man (the "flesh", the sin nature) still exists, as Paul wrote.

However the beginning of chapter eight should actually be in the same chapter as seven. It is a continuation of Paul's testimony. Paul states he hath been made free from the law of sin and death. He is no longer in captivity to the Law of which was in his members; he is in the Spirit in Christ because Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh and condemned sin in the flesh; His flesh. That the righteousness of the law can be fulfilled in him (us). For Jesus Christ his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. So be healed and go and sin no more.For if after we have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, we are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
(1Pe 2:24; 2Pe 2:20)


There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me (Paul) free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do (in Paul's mind), in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.(Rom 8:1-4)


Please notice in that there in only no condemnation if we are walking in the Spirit and that Jesus condemned sin; taking it away; nailing it to the cross that the righteousness be fulfilled (completely filled ) in us.

In regards to the word fulfilled I would like to add a foot note. It is translated from the Greek word pleroo.

From Mickelson's enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries.
G4137 πληρόω pleroo (play-roh'-o) v.
1. to fully, completely fill
2. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow)
3. (figuratively) to fully supply, satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.

Pleroo which is to fully fill; completely fill. This how much of the righteousness of the Law is in us or should be in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. Remember what John says? He says, " He that is doing righteousness is righteous even as HE (Jesus) is righteous.

"Even as" is a direct comparison to how Jesus was righteous. So How was Jesus righteous?

By GOD's indwelling Spirit. He says in John 14:10, "...but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

As Paul wrote, "GOD works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure."

With man this is impossible; but with GOD all things are possible!

So when we have the blinders taken off we can clearly see that Paul is stating that He has been freed from the Law of sin and Death. His flesh no longer had dominion over him. He was no longer doing the things that he would not. He was experiencing the victory over the flesh through Christ Jesus.

So the common teaching from chapter seven in Romans is heresy. That Paul was continuing in sin because he could not help himself is a direct slap in the face to all that Christ did for us, and to all that Paul shared in and of the Gospel.

Let’s take a closer look at the word mind as seen in verses 7:23,25; 8:5,6,7

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind(intellect, understanding), and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (intellect, understanding) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Why Intellect and understanding in parenthesis?

Because it states in Mickelson’s Strong’s enhanced:
G3563 νοῦς nous (nous`) n.
1.
the intellect, i.e. the mind
2.
(by implication) meaning...

From the BDAG lexicon….
a) mind, intellect as the side of life contrasted w. physical existence,
the higher, mental part of a human being that initiates thoughts and plans (Apollonius of Tyana [I A.D.] in Eus., PE 4, 13; Orig., C. Cels. 8, 38, 21; 52, 24; Did., Gen. 57, 26): ὁ νόμος τοῦ νοός (μου) the law of (my) intellect Ro 7:22 v.l., 23. (Opp. σάρξ) τῷ ν. δουλεύειν νόμῳ θεοῦ serve the law of God w. one’s intellect vs. 25.

b)understanding, mind as faculty[SM1] of thinking...


Romans 7:23, 25 are referring to an acknowledgement to one’s understanding. Paul says he gets it. His intellect understands and his mind is a slave to it, but it does not help him gain victory over the sin in his flesh.
Now for Rom 8:5, “For they that are after the flesh do
mind (entertain, exercise ) the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”


Why entertain and exercise in parenthesis?
Because Mickelson’ Strong’s affirms:

G5426 φρονέω phroneo (fron-eh'-o) v.
1.
to exercise the mind, i.e.
entertain or have a sentiment or opinion
2. (by implication) to be (mentally) disposed (more or less earnestly in a certain direction)
3. (intensively) to interest oneself in (with concern or obedience)

The BDAG states:
1) to have an opinion with regard to someth., think, form/hold an opinion, judge…
2)
to give careful consideration to someth., set one’s mind on, be intent on, foll. by the acc. (Brutus, Ep. 14 τὰ σὰ φρ.)….
3) to develop an attitude based on careful thought,
be minded/disposed…

And finally Rom 8:6,7 “For to be carnally
minded (inclined, purposed) is death; but to be spiritually
minded (inclined, purposed) is life and peace. Because the carnal
mind (inclined, purposed) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. ”

Why inclined and purpose in parenthesis?
Because Mickelson's work confirms it.

G5427 φρόνημα phronema (fron'-ay-mah) n.

1.(mental) inclination or purpose…

BDAG:
φρόνημα, ατος, τό (fr. φρήν via φρονέω; Aeschyl., Hdt. et al.; Vett. Val. 109, 2; 2 Macc 7:21; 13:9; Philo, Joseph.; Hippol., Ref. 1, 2, 1 [philosophical: ‘point of view’])
the faculty of fixing one’s mind on someth., way of thinking, mind(-set)

So if one is entertaining the flesh with their mind. The have made the flesh their purpose. They are in the flesh and they cannot please GOD.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But we are not in the flesh but the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made us free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do because of an intellectual understanding is weak against the flesh. God sending HIS Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and condemned sin in the flesh. That the righteousness of the law be fulfilled to the uttermost in us. Who walk not after the flesh but the Spirit.

 

[mailmandan]

We don't have salvation through obeying HIS Commandments.

We certainly DO NOT. So why are SDA's so obsessed with the 10 Commandments and include them in the plan of salvation? Example below..

Quote Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

What is the other Gospel?


It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation.


God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

Hmm...

We have salvation through Christ's indwelling.

That's because Christ indwells BELIEVERS.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(Rom 9:31-33 KJV)

Amen!

What is this Faith? Christ; the Word in our hearts and in our mouths and in our minds.

*Romans 10:9 - that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the LORD our GOD will circumcise our hearts and the hearts of our seed. For righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) down from above

SDA's like to play games and contradict themselves.

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law. In other words the Word; the Divine utterances. The Word manifested in the flesh; Christ) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (GOD's commands and statutes written in the Book of the Law; the Divine utterances; Christ, the Word manifested in the flesh manifested in our flesh) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart and in thy hand: (that thou mayest do it) that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

It's evident from the context of Romans 10, especially verse 4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES." The Law is UNABLE to establish the righteousness required by God. Christ ENDED the Law, NOT IN ITS CONTENT, BUT AS A MEANS OF OBTAINING A RIGHT STANDING WITH GOD FOR SALVATION.

Again, Moses said that no one needed to ascend to heaven to bring down the law again (Deuteronomy 30:12); God had already freely given the law. Paul makes a comparison: in the same way, he says, no one needs to ascend to heaven to bring down Christ again: God already sent him freely (Romans 10:6). Moses also said that no one needed to descend into the depths of the sea again (Deuteronomy 30:13); God had already redeemed his people and brought them through the sea. Paul makes another comparison: no one needs to descend to the depths, as if to bring Christ up from the dead; God already raised Him from the dead (Romans 10:7).​

Rather, Moses said, the law is already available, in Israel’s mouths and hearts if they chose to embrace it (Deuteronomy 30:14). Likewise, Paul declares that the message of faith in Christ is similarly also available, in our mouths and hearts, if we embrace it (Romans 10:8). Paul was not mixing law and grace as you continue to do.

The very argument that you make by comparing Deuteronomy 30 to Romans 10 COMPLETELY CONFOUNDS YOUR ARGUMENT. In Deuteronomy 30 the LAW for restoration of the nation is near to the mouth and must not be searched for in heaven or the depths of the sea, and in Romans 10 SALVATION is near to the mouth and must not be searched for in the height of heaven or the depth of the sea. By this comparison you trashed your own argument, for, if any man adheres to ONE LITTLE COMMANDMENT OF MOSES, HE IS BOUND TO KEEP THEM ALL. AND we are told by the same Holy Spirit that, "..as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" (Galatians 3:10). You cannot perfectly keep "all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

Praise be to GOD the Father; Maker of Heaven and earth and Whom HE has sent! By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for (into) obedience to the Faith among all nations, for his name: For the just shall live by Faith. This Faith in which we preach!

There it is! Just like Roman Catholics, you misinterpret "obedience to the faith" and teach that we are saved by faith + obedience/works by taking faith and obedience/works wrapping them both up in a package and simply stamping "faith" on the package. I was in a debate with a Roman Catholic who not only misinterpreted Romans 1:5 but also went on to RE-DEFINE faith below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works. Roman Catholics seem to think by not teaching that justification comes through perfect obedience to the law that they are not teaching salvation by works, yet they still claim that we are saved by accomplishing this check list of works above. His erroneous argument is just Roman Catholic smoke and mirrors. We are saved through faith, not works, then afterwards the believer lives by faith. What believers do afterwards is done by or "out of" faith, not to be confused with being saved through faith in Christ.

In regards to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/works.

For GOD has said, this is the Covenant I will make with them, I will put my laws into their hearts and into their minds will I write them. And their sins will no wise be brought to my remembrance! Now where remission of these is; there is no more offering for sin. For by one offering HE have perfected forever them that are sanctified. Therefore having boldness to enter into the Holiest of all through the blood of Jesus. Through the veil; that is His flesh; the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure. Not I but Christ!
(Rom 1:5 Heb 10)

Amen! Yet this has nothing to do with salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

Faith in and of Christ. For we are dead nevertheless we live yet not us, but Christ liveth in us. And the Life we now live in the flesh we live by the Faith of the Son of GOD. Christ in us the Hope of Glory. For it is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.

Believers live by faith in the Son of GOD and not by faith in a self righteous, legalistic works system. *Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Because Christ was what GOD was speaking. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being blended together to the faith; to the ones that heard it.(Heb 4:2)

The gospel is preached today to those who are mixed up in false religions and cults, but the word preached does not profit them either, not being mixed/united with faith in those who heard it. In 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, Paul clearly states - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Yes he was willing to circumcise their hearts with the circumcision made without hands; the circumcision of Christ. Remember Hebrew 4:2.

I remember and I also remember Romans 2:29.

Christ (our Faith) in us is the Hope of Glory. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. For in HIM we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also HIS offspring. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity (our bondage to sin) captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Eph 4:4-8 KJV)

Faith in Christ/believing the Gospel places us into the body of Christ (Ephesians 1:13).

 

[LoveGodForever]

In regards to chapter 7 in Romans. The Christian walk is a battle of the old man vs the new. The old man (the "flesh", the sin nature) still exists, as Paul wrote.

However the beginning of chapter eight should actually be in the same chapter as seven. It is a continuation of Paul's testimony. Paul states he hath been made free from the law of sin and death. He is no longer in captivity to the Law of which was in his members; he is in the Spirit in Christ because Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh and condemned sin in the flesh; His flesh. That the righteousness of the law can be fulfilled in him (us). For Jesus Christ his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. So be healed and go and sin no more.For if after we have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, we are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
(1Pe 2:24; 2Pe 2:20)


There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me (Paul) free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do (in Paul's mind), in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.(Rom 8:1-4)


Please notice in that there in only no condemnation if we are walking in the Spirit and that Jesus condemned sin; taking it away; nailing it to the cross that the righteousness be fulfilled (completely filled ) in us.

In regards to the word fulfilled I would like to add a foot note. It is translated from the Greek word pleroo.

From Mickelson's enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries.
G4137 πληρόω pleroo (play-roh'-o) v.
1. to fully, completely fill
2. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow)
3. (figuratively) to fully supply, satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.

Pleroo which is to fully fill; completely fill. This how much of the righteousness of the Law is in us or should be in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. Remember what John says? He says, " He that is doing righteousness is righteous even as HE (Jesus) is righteous.

"Even as" is a direct comparison to how Jesus was righteous. So How was Jesus righteous?

By GOD's indwelling Spirit. He says in John 14:10, "...but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

As Paul wrote, "GOD works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure."

With man this is impossible; but with GOD all things are possible!

So when we have the blinders taken off we can clearly see that Paul is stating that He has been freed from the Law of sin and Death. His flesh no longer had dominion over him. He was no longer doing the things that he would not. He was experiencing the victory over the flesh through Christ Jesus.

So the common teaching from chapter seven in Romans is heresy. That Paul was continuing in sin because he could not help himself is a direct slap in the face to all that Christ did for us, and to all that Paul shared in and of the Gospel.

Let’s take a closer look at the word mind as seen in verses 7:23,25; 8:5,6,7

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind(intellect, understanding), and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (intellect, understanding) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Why Intellect and understanding in parenthesis?

Because it states in Mickelson’s Strong’s enhanced:
G3563 νοῦς nous (nous`) n.
1.
the intellect, i.e. the mind
2.
(by implication) meaning...

From the BDAG lexicon….
a) mind, intellect as the side of life contrasted w. physical existence,
the higher, mental part of a human being that initiates thoughts and plans (Apollonius of Tyana [I A.D.] in Eus., PE 4, 13; Orig., C. Cels. 8, 38, 21; 52, 24; Did., Gen. 57, 26): ὁ νόμος τοῦ νοός (μου) the law of (my) intellect Ro 7:22 v.l., 23. (Opp. σάρξ) τῷ ν. δουλεύειν νόμῳ θεοῦ serve the law of God w. one’s intellect vs. 25.

b)understanding, mind as faculty[SM1] of thinking...


Romans 7:23, 25 are referring to an acknowledgement to one’s understanding. Paul says he gets it. His intellect understands and his mind is a slave to it, but it does not help him gain victory over the sin in his flesh.
Now for Rom 8:5, “For they that are after the flesh do
mind (entertain, exercise ) the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”


Why entertain and exercise in parenthesis?
Because Mickelson’ Strong’s affirms:

G5426 φρονέω phroneo (fron-eh'-o) v.
1.
to exercise the mind, i.e.
entertain or have a sentiment or opinion
2. (by implication) to be (mentally) disposed (more or less earnestly in a certain direction)
3. (intensively) to interest oneself in (with concern or obedience)

The BDAG states:
1) to have an opinion with regard to someth., think, form/hold an opinion, judge…
2)
to give careful consideration to someth., set one’s mind on, be intent on, foll. by the acc. (Brutus, Ep. 14 τὰ σὰ φρ.)….
3) to develop an attitude based on careful thought,
be minded/disposed…

And finally Rom 8:6,7 “For to be carnally
minded (inclined, purposed) is death; but to be spiritually
minded (inclined, purposed) is life and peace. Because the carnal
mind (inclined, purposed) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. ”

Why inclined and purpose in parenthesis?
Because Mickelson's work confirms it.

G5427 φρόνημα phronema (fron'-ay-mah) n.

1.(mental) inclination or purpose…

BDAG:
φρόνημα, ατος, τό (fr. φρήν via φρονέω; Aeschyl., Hdt. et al.; Vett. Val. 109, 2; 2 Macc 7:21; 13:9; Philo, Joseph.; Hippol., Ref. 1, 2, 1 [philosophical: ‘point of view’])
the faculty of fixing one’s mind on someth., way of thinking, mind(-set)

So if one is entertaining the flesh with their mind. The have made the flesh their purpose. They are in the flesh and they cannot please GOD.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

But we are not in the flesh but the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made us free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do because of an intellectual understanding is weak against the flesh. God sending HIS Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and condemned sin in the flesh. That the righteousness of the law be fulfilled to the uttermost in us. Who walk not after the flesh but the Spirit.

Hey LB,

Yep very well written and put together. Thanks for sharing. We know the many are called but few a chosen. Some do not want to hear Gods word because they love their sins more then God. The same groups will grow together untill the end of time (wheat and tares) it will not be apparent until the harvest (2nd Coming).

Many are called but few are chosen because not every one that says to him, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?

Yep many professed Christian following the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God following another Gospel having a FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING the POWER thereof.

Jesus will say to these deceived, I never knew you: depart from me, you that practice SIN (Iniquity).

Thanks for sharing LB was a pleasure to read.

May God bless you as you continue in His Word.