2 Timothy 4

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atwhatcost

Guest
#21
#21
leonardronaldo said:
2 Timothy 4:1
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I like the full thought. Not good at it, but I like it.

4 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
 
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thebesttrees

Guest
#22
#22
leonardronaldo said:
That still includes all humans, isn't it?
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Yes, but according to the context, it does not include the folks buried in the cemeteries. It refers to people who are physically alive and are in two groups: Those who reject the Lord and those who follow Him.
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
#23
#23
KennethC said:
Yes I can:


1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


2 Timothy 2:20
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.


Revelation 20:4-5
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The second resurrection is in Revelation 20:11-15 !!!
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Thanks. Which verses that refers to this point: "judged to give them rewards on how faithful they were."?


 
L

leonardronaldo

Guest
#24
#24
KennethC said:
Yes I can:


1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


2 Timothy 2:20
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.


Revelation 20:4-5
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The second resurrection is in Revelation 20:11-15 !!!
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When you say "Unbelievers and disobedient are not judged at this time unless you count the vials of God's wrath as part of their judgment, but as for the final judgment of being sent to the lake of fire that happens after the 1,000 year millennial reign of Christ."

Are you trying to say that on the millenial reign of Christ's Kingdom, Christ will not make any judgment and there are still humans who are disbelieving and disobedient to Him?
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#26
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
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#26
This is but one example of why I think it is so foolish to get all hooked up on just going by the KJV.
 
L

leonardronaldo

Guest
#27
#27
thebesttrees said:
Yes, but according to the context, it does not include the folks buried in the cemeteries. It refers to people who are physically alive and are in two groups: Those who reject the Lord and those who follow Him.
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You are trying to say that the physically dead humans have already been judged each on their death's time and therefore will no longer be judged. Do I understand you correctly?
 
L

leonardronaldo

Guest
#28
#28
Willie-T said:
This is but one example of why I think it is so foolish to get all hooked up on just going by the KJV.
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?? Is your bible translation giving a different meaning on 2 Timothy 4? Please do share
 
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KennethC

Guest
#29
#29
leonardronaldo said:
When you say "Unbelievers and disobedient are not judged at this time unless you count the vials of God's wrath as part of their judgment, but as for the final judgment of being sent to the lake of fire that happens after the 1,000 year millennial reign of Christ."

Are you trying to say that on the millenial reign of Christ's Kingdom, Christ will not make any judgment and there are still humans who are disbelieving and disobedient to Him?
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No the scriptures make it clear that those who died disobedient and as unbelievers before the tribulation starts, and then those that die during the tribulation period in those states will not be risen again tell after the 1,000 year millennial reign of Christ has finished and then they will face judgment.

Those who are still living during the millennial reign of Christ will be subject to following and obeying the Lord's rule, we know they will all do this because when satan is released from the pit in Revelation 20:7-8 it says he will go out to deceive the nations again.

Deceiving another means you have to trick them to follow you instead of who they have been following, and those that he deceives and follows him he will lead against the Lord. This is the Gog and Magog war and it says the number of the deceived is as the sand of the sea, which means there will be a huge number of them !!!
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#30
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#30
leonardronaldo said:
?? Is your bible translation giving a different meaning on 2 Timothy 4? Please do share
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You have the same access to BibleGateway.com that I have... and you can compare about 70 translations and versions there.
 
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thebesttrees

Guest
#31
#31
leonardronaldo said:
You are trying to say that the physically dead humans have already been judged each on their death's time and therefore will no longer be judged. Do I understand you correctly?
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I am not trying to say anything besides what the verse points out. Why say more than what the verse and the context tell me?!

So I AM NOT saying that the physically dead humans have already been judged at the time they died and will no longer be judged. If there is a verse that says so please point it out.

2 timothy 4:1 simply points ONLY to the spiritually dead and spiritually alive as a read of the entire chapter 4 of 2 Timothy clearly demonstrates.
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
#32
#32
Willie-T said:
You have the same access to BibleGateway.com that I have... and you can compare about 70 translations and versions there.
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And which of the 70 do you prefer?
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
#33
#33
thebesttrees said:
I am not trying to say anything besides what the verse points out. Why say more than what the verse and the context tell me?!

So I AM NOT saying that the physically dead humans have already been judged at the time they died and will no longer be judged. If there is a verse that says so please point it out.

2 timothy 4:1 simply points ONLY to the spiritually dead and spiritually alive as a read of the entire chapter 4 of 2 Timothy clearly demonstrates.
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I look at the 2 Timothy 4:1 as a description to the greatness of the authority of Christ who shall judge all human beings, either physically dead, spiritually dead, physically alive or spiritually alive. Especially Paul seems to have said the first verse as a greetings to Timothy (and other believers around him).
Please share which verses that you refer to which limit the context into spiritual realm
 
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thebesttrees

Guest
#34
#34
leonardronaldo said:
I look at the 2 Timothy 4:1 as a description to the greatness of the authority of Christ who shall judge all human beings, either physically dead, spiritually dead, physically alive or spiritually alive. Especially Paul seems to have said the first verse as a greetings to Timothy (and other believers around him).
Please share which verses that you refer to which limit the context into spiritual realm
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None of the verses in the chapter 4 of 2 Timothy refer to physically dead people! If you know of any verse that refers to dead people in this chapter, please provide it so the rest of us can also benefit.

Here are a couple of the verses from 2 timothy 4 that have spiritual significance and not having to do anything with physically dead people:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
#35
#35
thebesttrees said:
None of the verses in the chapter 4 of 2 Timothy refer to physically dead people! If you know of any verse that refers to dead people in this chapter, please provide it so the rest of us can also benefit.

Here are a couple of the verses from 2 timothy 4 that have spiritual significance and not having to do anything with physically dead people:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
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As I have stated, Paul seems to have said the first verse as a greeting to Timothy and other believers around him so that the expression who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom, is specifically to describe the very person mentioned before such expression, the Lord Jesus Christ.

While the second verse up to the twenty first verse is the body of the message being preached. Therefore, I do not see the connection between the first verse and the rest of verses in the chapter, other than a greeting.

Peace of Christ
 
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thebesttrees

Guest
#36
#36
leonardronaldo said:
As I have stated, Paul seems to have said the first verse as a greeting to Timothy and other believers around him so that the expression who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom, is specifically to describe the very person mentioned before such expression, the Lord Jesus Christ.

While the second verse up to the twenty first verse is the body of the message being preached. Therefore, I do not see the connection between the first verse and the rest of verses in the chapter, other than a greeting.

Peace of Christ
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I am not arguing with you that the judge is the Lord Christ. What I am pointing out is that Paul is referring to believers and unbelievers when he used the terms 'quick" and "dead". Paul is one of the "quick" ones as is Timothy. In contrast the people in verses 3 are 4 are the 'dead" ones.
 
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leonardronaldo

Guest
#37
#37
thebesttrees said:
I am not arguing with you that the judge is the Lord Christ. What I am pointing out is that Paul is referring to believers and unbelievers when he used the terms 'quick" and "dead". Paul is one of the "quick" ones as is Timothy. In contrast the people in verses 3 are 4 are the 'dead" ones.
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I know, but I am not seeing the first verse as part of the message, but rather as a part of greetings.
 
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