Within the veil Part 3

[VW]

How does one become pleasing before God? First, we must ask if our conscience condemns us. God is greater than our hearts, and if our conscience condemns us, then there is something in our lives, in our hearts, that is not pleasing to God. Many will say that because we believe in Jesus that God would never condemn us, but they lack understanding. God provides us with the Spirit of truth, to show us what is pleasing to Him, and what is not pleasing to Him. And this is as He sees us, individually, as one of His children. He looks at each of us as an individual, and He searches our hearts individually, and judges as we need to be judged. In other words, His judgment for this one will not be the same as His judgment for this one's brother. It is by the Spirit, and the Spirit searches out all things, even the deep things of God.

So, the first part of becoming pleasing to God is confession. My heart is condemned, and I see that what I think or say or do or even feel, is displeasing to my heavenly Father. I agree with the judgment, not to get out of something, but because I desire the truth above all things. For it is the truth in the inner most parts that is the beginning of pleasing God. An example: I get angry with a driver who cuts me off in traffic. The Spirit convicts my heart of my anger. I know that He is speaking the truth, I should not have become angry, but, hey, He cut me off. That was wrong also. The Spirit is not talking about what another has done, but about what I have done that is offensive to God. So, do I make excuses, or judge another, or confess the truth and listen to the voice of God?;

If I make an excuse, I am not walking in the truth, but rather in a lie. There is no excuse. I have sinned, because the Spirit has convicted me of sin. If I judge another, showing that they were in the wrong, I have actively worked against the truth, and in my heart taken the place of God, saying that He should judge that one rather than me. Both of these grieve the Holy Spirit. Both of these leave us in unrighteousness. Both of these leave us in the power of sin.

But if I confess, that is, if I readily agree with the Spirit's judgment, because I want the truth in my life above everything else, then Jesus forgives me of my sins, and He cleanses me of all unrighteousness. He does this for many reasons, but the most important one is so we can remain in fellowship with God. For it is in His presence that we can find that which we are looking for.

More later,
In Christ,

 

[zone]

Many will say that because we believe in Jesus that God would never condemn us, but they lack understanding.

just an abomination.
a total manipulation of Romans 8 that Paul suffered and died to bring us at the hand of Christ Almighty.

immaturity misreads Romans 8 and does NOT UNDERSTAND that it is discussing 2 separate MEN - ONE SAVED ONE UNSAVED.

regenerate vs unregenerate.

flesh vs Spirit

dead vs alive.

before these people even get to the end of the chapter, they have forgotten the very first lines. and indeed fall into the Galatian heresy of being made perfect by their own will....they think "Life in the Spirit" is something THEY DO.

not knowing how to do this, they turn to CHARISMATIC activity.

STOP IT!

Romans 8
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

God’s Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Lad]

Perhaps 'condemn' wasnt the right word choice, though I agree that we have to pursue holiness and obey His Word and Spirit together in order to be an 'aroma pleasing to Him'. We are justified through our belief in Jesus, but we are sanctified through the Spirit and our willingness to submit to His prompting and our surrender to His changing us. The potter cannot mold the clay without the clays compliance (see Jer 18) Going back to condemn, perhaps you could replace that with 'chastise' though I do believe if we stray from Jesus after believing in Him and return to our sin and dont repent then we can lose our salvation.

 

[zone]

Perhaps 'condemn' wasnt the right word choice, though I agree that we have to pursue holiness and obey His Word and Spirit together in order to be an 'aroma pleasing to Him'. We are justified through our belief in Jesus, but we are sanctified through the Spirit and our willingness to submit to His prompting and our surrender to His changing us. The potter cannot mold the clay without the clays compliance (see Jer 18) Going back to condemn, perhaps you could replace that with 'chastise' though I do believe if we stray from Jesus after believing in Him and return to our sin and dont repent then we can lose our salvation.

don't you get it Lad?

VW SAYS HE IS A CHOSEN VESSEL SENT TO SPEAK THE WORD OF CHRIST DIRECTLY TO THE CHURCH TODAY.

in the OT the false prophet AND the entire city that listened to him, livestock and all was utterly destroyed...laid waste. no second chance to change a word here or there.

a true prophet WILL NOT NEED a "minor" correction from the laity.

if he misplaced the word CONDEMN, what spirit is speaking?

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

let's take a look at the word condemn elsewhere:

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

what gospel is this "prophet" preaching?

 

[VW]

Perhaps 'condemn' wasnt the right word choice, though I agree that we have to pursue holiness and obey His Word and Spirit together in order to be an 'aroma pleasing to Him'. We are justified through our belief in Jesus, but we are sanctified through the Spirit and our willingness to submit to His prompting and our surrender to His changing us. The potter cannot mold the clay without the clays compliance (see Jer 18) Going back to condemn, perhaps you could replace that with 'chastise' though I do believe if we stray from Jesus after believing in Him and return to our sin and dont repent then we can lose our salvation.

I used the exact same word that God used in scripture.

Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. We shall know by this that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him, in whatever our hearts condemns us; for God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things which are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

So yes, condemn is the right word. God condemns that which is evil, which is sin, which is not pleasing in His sight, because He is perfect and perfectly holy. And those things which He condemns are destined for the cross of Jesus Christ. Either now, as we confess, or then as we suffer loss.

In Christ,

 

[Lad]

don't you get it Lad?

VW SAYS HE IS A CHOSEN VESSEL SENT TO SPEAK THE WORD OF CHRIST DIRECTLY TO THE CHURCH TODAY.

in the OT the false prophet AND the entire city that listened to him, livestock and all was utterly destroyed...laid waste. no second chance to change a word here or there.

a true prophet WILL NOT NEED a "minor" correction from the laity.

if he misplaced the word CONDEMN, what spirit is speaking?

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

let's take a look at the word condemn elsewhere:

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

what gospel is this "prophet" preaching?

Ok well maybe he isnt exactly a chosen vessel zone but i wont let that affect my judgment of what he is saying which, if i understand it correctly, is true.

 

[zone]

Ok well maybe he isnt exactly a chosen vessel zone but i wont let that affect my judgment of what he is saying which, if i understand it correctly, is true.

if he's lying about being a prophet, he's liar and doing the deeds of the father of lies, there's no truth in him. whether he ever repents and is restored by christian men who will receive him and accept the real fruits of repentence is no longer our concern (Red33 is always ready to do this).

you are not to listen to him FOR ANY TRUTH whatsoever, but rebuke him sharply and continue pointing to him as a WOLF.

but you do what you like.

 

[Lad]

I understand where youre coming from zone, and i get your approach, but i would respectfully disagree with you. I believe that one sin does not cover the person with sin, after all i myself have lied many times but that doesnt make me a liar, it just makes me repentant. I would hope you dont disregard all that I say now that I have confessed to having lied in the past.

 

[VW]

don't you get it Lad?

VW SAYS HE IS A CHOSEN VESSEL SENT TO SPEAK THE WORD OF CHRIST DIRECTLY TO THE CHURCH TODAY.

in the OT the false prophet AND the entire city that listened to him, livestock and all was utterly destroyed...laid waste. no second chance to change a word here or there.

a true prophet WILL NOT NEED a "minor" correction from the laity.

if he misplaced the word CONDEMN, what spirit is speaking?

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

let's take a look at the word condemn elsewhere:

Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

what gospel is this "prophet" preaching?

I did not misplace the word condemn. It is right there is scripture, written to the "little children." And you know what gospel I am preaching.

 

[AnandaHya]

perhaps it would be helpful to have a look at the word "condemn" as used in the Bible? (the whole "being able to lose your salvation" thing is a whole another topic.)

I do believe God chastens His children and He does not condemn us but instead convicts us of our transgression. So that we might have godly sorrow and turn from sin with true repentance so our action may glorify God's name not anger our Heavenly Father. It is our words, actions and heart condemns us by testifying of the sin committed against the Lord.

Deuteronomy 25:1
“If there is a dispute between men, and they come to court, that the judges may judge them, and they justify the righteous and condemn the wicked,

2 Samuel 24:10
[ The Judgment on David’s Sin ] And David’s heart condemned him after he had numbered the people. So David said to the LORD, “I have sinned greatly in what I have done; but now, I pray, O LORD, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly.

Psalm 34:22
The LORD redeems the soul of His servants,And none of those who trust in Him shall be condemned.

Psalm 37:32-34
New King James Version (NKJV)

32 The wicked watches the righteous,
And seeks to slay him.
33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand,
Nor condemn him when he is judged.

34 Wait on the LORD,
And keep His way,
And He shall exalt you to inherit the land;
When the wicked are cut off, you shall see it.

Matthew 12:37
For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

John 8:9-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience,[a] went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours?[c] Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and[d] sin no more.”

ok there's the scripture, read and pray to God for His interpretation. May the Holy Spirit shed light and understanding and wisdom on the matter.

 

[AnandaHya]

I understand where youre coming from zone, and i get your approach, but i would respectfully disagree with you. I believe that one sin does not cover the person with sin, after all i myself have lied many times but that doesnt make me a liar, it just makes me repentant. I would hope you dont disregard all that I say now that I have confessed to having lied in the past.

Lad it is not just about lies and transgressions but how does a person test the spirits revealing their "truth" to them? How does one react when faced with disagreement? how does one react when given scriptures showing the person their sin?

where do you draw the line?

I have two points that I believe we must stand firm on and not move:

1.Christology: do we believe the same things about Jesus? Is He your Lord and Savior? Did He die on the cross for your sins and is now in Heaven? Is He the Alpha and the Omega, the king of kings, Lord of all?

2. Sorietology: Do we believe in the same method for salvation? do you believe in salvation by Faith in Jesus Christ alone as a gift of grace from God and not by any works or personal worth but through God's grace this salvation was given? Do you believe it is eternal? do you believe that the Holy Spirit is given to ALL believers for the santification of God's people? Do you hold to the truthfulness of the Holy Bible as God's inspired words that testify to Jesus Christ as Lord and savior?

those are the main pillars of Faith that should not be replaced or undermined. For Paul wrote and warned of the people who did.

He calls it people who teach a different gospel.

2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

Galatians 1:6-17
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.


if you chose to put it with it instead of heed Paul's warning that is your choice.

 

[VW]

perhaps it would be helpful to have a look at the word "condemn" as used in the Bible? (the whole "being able to lose your salvation" thing is a whole another topic.)

I do believe God chastens His children and He does not condemn us but instead convicts us of our transgression. So that we might have godly sorrow and turn from sin with true repentance so our action may glorify God's name not anger our Heavenly Father. It is our words, actions and heart condemns us by testifying of the sin committed against the Lord.

Deuteronomy 25:1
“If there is a dispute between men, and they come to court, that the judges may judge them, and they justify the righteous and condemn the wicked,

2 Samuel 24:10
[ The Judgment on David’s Sin ] And David’s heart condemned him after he had numbered the people. So David said to the LORD, “I have sinned greatly in what I have done; but now, I pray, O LORD, take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly.

Psalm 34:22
The LORD redeems the soul of His servants,And none of those who trust in Him shall be condemned.

Psalm 37:32-34
New King James Version (NKJV)

32 The wicked watches the righteous,
And seeks to slay him.
33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand,
Nor condemn him when he is judged.

34 Wait on the LORD,
And keep His way,
And He shall exalt you to inherit the land;
When the wicked are cut off, you shall see it.

Matthew 12:37
For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

John 8:9-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience,[a] went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours?[c] Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and[d] sin no more.”

ok there's the scripture, read and pray to God for His interpretation. May the Holy Spirit shed light and understanding and wisdom on the matter.

You left out its usage in 1st John.

 

[AnandaHya]

You left out its usage in 1st John.

lol i left out a lot of verses, but if you want 1 John here it is....

1 John 3:21
Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.

that is a nice verse

 

[zone]

I understand where youre coming from zone, and i get your approach, but i would respectfully disagree with you. I believe that one sin does not cover the person with sin, after all i myself have lied many times but that doesnt make me a liar, it just makes me repentant. I would hope you dont disregard all that I say now that I have confessed to having lied in the past.

Laddie.
i don't make men's personal sins of the flesh my business - that's what confession to the Lord and forgiveness and cleansing is for.

what i do make my business, and i thought it was a direct commandment (restated many many times) to watch out for false teachers and false prophets.

lying to your wife about watching something bad on the net, or lying at the bank is NOT THE SAME as speaking words IN THE FIRST PERSON VOICE OF JESUS CHRIST...claiming to be His chosen vessel speaking directly to the world in 2011.

this is an extremely grave offense. he can repent, but he shows no sign of it.

if you believe VW, that's your choice.

 

[VW]

Laddie.
i don't make men's personal sins of the flesh my business - that's what confession to the Lord and forgiveness and cleansing is for.

what i do make my business, and i thought it was a direct commandment (restated many many times) to watch out for false teachers and false prophets.

lying to your wife about watching something bad on the net, or lying at the bank is NOT THE SAME as speaking words IN THE FIRST PERSON VOICE OF JESUS CHRIST...claiming to be His chosen vessel speaking directly to the world in 2011.

this is an extremely grave offense. he can repent, but he shows no sign of it.

if you believe VW, that's your choice.

And where is that said or written to be an offense against God? Show us scripture, in context, to back up this claim.

Watch out for false prophets, but you take that to mean that there are no prophets. A gross misuse of scripture.

 

[zone]

And where is that said or written to be an offense against God? Show us scripture, in context, to back up this claim.

Watch out for false prophets, but you take that to mean that there are no prophets. A gross misuse of scripture.

even if there were any, YOU'RE NOT ONE.
a gross sin.

 

[Lad]

And where is that said or written to be an offense against God? Show us scripture, in context, to back up this claim.

Watch out for false prophets, but you take that to mean that there are no prophets. A gross misuse of scripture.

VW if you were a prophet you would refute zone for calling you a chosen vessel, speaking as Yeshua himself. As I see NO objections to this i have to make the assumption that her words were right and that this is truly how you see yourself. That is VERY scary and VERY near to what the pope classifies himself as.

 

[VW]

VW if you were a prophet you would refute zone for calling you a chosen vessel, speaking as Yeshua himself. As I see NO objections to this i have to make the assumption that her words were right and that this is truly how you see yourself. That is VERY scary and VERY near to what the pope classifies himself as.

No, the Pope calls himself God's only representative on earth. He says that whatever he says is infallible.

I was called as a prophet in the church, by the laying on of hands by the elders and the pastor. I do not claim to be infallible, in any way. I do not and never will add to scripture. I do believe that we all should hear the voice of Jesus Christ, in our hearts.

As to how I see myself, that would be a sinner, worst than most, who is saved by the grace of God through Jesus Christ the Son, who holds himself no better than any one else, as actually worse, because God had to break through my arrogance and sin to save me.

In Christ,

 

[VW]

even if there were any, YOU'RE NOT ONE.
a gross sin.

I used to be guilty of gross sin. I called my self a christian, and lived in horrible sin. Without any accountability to the Holy Spirit and His convictions. And I taught others to do the same.

You do not know what price I have paid for that, nor what price I must yet pay.

Oh, you think that there is no price yet to be paid. How foolish. Do you not know that God is light, and that in Him there is no darkness at all? When we are finally received into His bosom, there will not be any darkness in us either.

but there is darkness in us now, oh yeah, much darkness.

You would be better serving yourself to find the light and get the darkness exposed.

 

[AnandaHya]

No, the Pope calls himself God's only representative on earth. He says that whatever he says is infallible.

I was called as a prophet in the church, by the laying on of hands by the elders and the pastor. I do not claim to be infallible, in any way. I do not and never will add to scripture. I do believe that we all should hear the voice of Jesus Christ, in our hearts.

As to how I see myself, that would be a sinner, worst than most, who is saved by the grace of God through Jesus Christ the Son, who holds himself no better than any one else, as actually worse, because God had to break through my arrogance and sin to save me.

In Christ,

ok so you are not infallible. sometimes express your personal opinions on this forums so not all your words are directly from Jesus.

So what does it mean to you to be a prophet?

what is the meaning of the office of prophets?

you mentioned the laying on of hands by elders and the pastor, but I thought you stated you didn't attend church, could you clarify Do you attend church?