Predestination

[Elizabeth619]

God predestined that Christians would be saved, but gave all men the freedom of choice. God wants all men to be saved, but He wants them to make the decision to become Christians themselves. To believe that we have no control over our own destination is false doctrine.

1 Timothy 2:3,4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely .

MAtt 28:19,20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. (KJV)

John 5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

1 Cor 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

James 5:19,20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

 

[princessbella]

i agree elizabeth, God knows the things hes got in store for us, and the pu rpose and plans for our lives , its up to us to make the choiceto follow it.. i do think however that he can see our hearts and know the choices where going to make though, like he did with pharoah, herod, judas

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, through Gods omniscience he knows who will act what way in certian situation. So he uses this knowledge to make sure his will is fulfilled. He knew Pharaoh would harden his heart. so God put him in power. God did not force pharaoh to do anything. Pharaoh did it of his own free will

 

[Abiding]

Romans 8:28-30
King James Version (KJV)
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Strangelove]

I'm a hyper-super-Calvinist.

I believe Christians were predestined to be saved before the foundations of the Earth and even before God knew it, and they will be, regardless of Gods willpower.

 

[DiscipleWilliam]

God predestined that Christians would be saved, but gave all men the freedom of choice. God wants all men to be saved, but He wants them to make the decision to become Christians themselves. To believe that we have no control over our own destination is false doctrine.

1 Timothy 2:3,4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely .

MAtt 28:19,20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. (KJV)

John 5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

1 Cor 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

James 5:19,20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Greetings Elizabeth619,

Nice posting... but I slightly disagree with the idea that God "wants" all men to be saved. If God did want all men to be saved, they necessarily would be. We do not possess the capacity to become Christians ourselves. We have to be careful in thinking that God is just an entity waiting and hoping for a sinful, wretched, fallen- vessel of clay, condemned to Hellfire individual to make a decision to 'chose' Him. But I believe that you are right in the sense that, we can make choices. However, those choices gratify and glorify ourselves. It is only by grace we can know how to glorify the Lord- who was merciful enough not count our trespasses against us. It is sin when you wish to magnify yourself rather than God.

We have control over our own destiny directly, this is true, but God is the One allowing us to have direct control of our destiny, which purposely makes Him have indirect control considering He sustains all things.
Where we ultimately end up is predestined by God already because He created the destination-and the way thereto. The choices that we make are according to law, whether your abiding in it, or rebelling against it. We cannot escape 'common law' or the Law of God. Since he created law, we are duty bound to operate according this law. We make choices, true, but our choices are made within this realm of available options given by Him. So I would agree, we do have control over our own destination, but, only according to the allowable options first provided by God.

 

[shroom2]

I believe Elizabeth has it exactly right. He predestined Christianity from before the foundation of the world, not individual Christians. God loves all men, and wants all men to be saved. If he does not want all men saved, then He is a respecter of persons, something the bible says He is NOT. He made salvation through Christ available to all men, but He cannot force anyone to believe. And confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead is the only requirement for salvation. Sadly, many will not choose to do it.

 

[Muskokaman]

Actually William Elizabeth is right as she quoted
1 Timothy 2:3,4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God does want all men to come unto him but he also knows that not all will come for only those who hear the voice of the Good sheperd will hear and come

As far as todays modern evangelistic movements are concerned if the Jimmy and Tammy faye Bakers of the world and others like them paid more heed to the following scripture1 Cor 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

We would not have the heresies being commited today and the state of our Lords church would not be as haphazard as it has become with people following false doctrine that came out of the mouths of those who were not filled with the holy spirit. It is to say that we should ALL pray to our Lord on a daily basis to show us the divine truth of his message and cast off the cloak of self rightousness and allow the spirit to work within us to the glory of God.

peace and love brother

corripiens iridis manet

 

[Red33]

God predestined that Christians would be saved, but gave all men the freedom of choice. God wants all men to be saved, but He wants them to make the decision to become Christians themselves. To believe that we have no control over our own destination is false doctrine.

1 Timothy 2:3,4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely .

MAtt 28:19,20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. (KJV)

John 5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

1 Cor 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

James 5:19,20 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Here is another verse to complement your excellent post.

2Pt 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[jandian]

Greetings Elizabeth619,

Nice posting... but I slightly disagree with the idea that God "wants" all men to be saved. If God did want all men to be saved, they necessarily would be.


If you love someone, even though they are not doing what you want, you will still want them to and God loves us....

2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Now...It does not mean none will perish, but He still loves the lost

 

[Muskokaman]

Here is another verse to complement your excellent post.

2Pt 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Nice one Red thanks for the reminder

peace and love

corripiens iridis manet

 

[Muskokaman]

Greetings Elizabeth619,

Nice posting... but I slightly disagree with the idea that God "wants" all men to be saved. If God did want all men to be saved, they necessarily would be.


If you love someone, even though they are not doing what you want, you will still want them to and God loves us....

2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Now...It does not mean none will perish, but He still loves the lost

Well it's your choice to disagree with the scripture even if it is plainly put before you give it some thought perhaps you may discover and understand the truth in the message. I'm praying for you were all in this together

peace love and understanding

corripiens iridis manet

 

[Israel]

Isaiah 57:15-19

15For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

16For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.

17For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.

18I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.

19I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.


He knew us ALL before the foundation of the world. We are His workmanship created for His GOOD pleasure.

We all are from above! And so we all must return.

 

[Strangelove]

Humans have free will.

God gives us faith.

Faith influences our free will.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Greetings Elizabeth619,

Nice posting... but I slightly disagree with the idea that God "wants" all men to be saved. If God did want all men to be saved, they necessarily would be. We do not possess the capacity to become Christians ourselves. We have to be careful in thinking that God is just an entity waiting and hoping for a sinful, wretched, fallen- vessel of clay, condemned to Hellfire individual to make a decision to 'chose' Him. But I believe that you are right in the sense that, we can make choices. However, those choices gratify and glorify ourselves. It is only by grace we can know how to glorify the Lord- who was merciful enough not count our trespasses against us. It is sin when you wish to magnify yourself rather than God.

We have control over our own destiny directly, this is true, but God is the One allowing us to have direct control of our destiny, which purposely makes Him have indirect control considering He sustains all things.
Where we ultimately end up is predestined by God already because He created the destination-and the way thereto. The choices that we make are according to law, whether your abiding in it, or rebelling against it. We cannot escape 'common law' or the Law of God. Since he created law, we are duty bound to operate according this law. We make choices, true, but our choices are made within this realm of available options given by Him. So I would agree, we do have control over our own destination, but, only according to the allowable options first provided by God.

God gives us a choice. Why would he condemn someone to hell at birth?

 

[Brandon777]

Reading all of 1 Timothy 2 it becomes clear that Jesus desperately desires that all people come to repentance!

 

[Graybeard]

God gives us a choice. Why would he condemn someone to hell at birth?

I think most have a choice, but there are are some who where/are condemned from birth because God caused it to be so that He may be glorified.

 

[DiscipleWilliam]

Reading all of 1 Timothy 2 it becomes clear that Jesus desperately desires that all people come to repentance!

It all boils down to who makes the first move in salvation- is it God, or is it man? Is God sovereign over all things, or is He sovereign over all things except you ? I would say that Jesus is in no way desperate. Jesus perfectly fulfilled the law of God and with the atoning sacrifice, expunged the sin debt for the elect of God and the elect are already numbered in Heaven. This is how our sins can be expelled upon repentance and confession. We are to 'trust' in Jesus because Jesus is our Trust. We just have to access this 'simple trust.' To access a trust you must first have an 'interest" in it. God's calling of the elect gives them the right to become beneficiaries of the trust (I'm using banking language for a reason) and thus providing us a way to have interest in Him. I believe it's obvious that God doesn't want man to continue in sin, but saving grace is only provided to some, while divine justice is provided to others. God's call is not compulsory, but is noticed in the heart of the believer when his sins are magnified, and he/she is illuminated in regards to their wretchedness.

 

[Brandon777]

I think most have a choice, but there are are some who where/are condemned from birth because God caused it to be so that He may be glorified.

No offence, but that sounds pretty sick. How would that bring glorification to God. I think further explanation is needed here.

 

[DiscipleWilliam]

God gives us a choice. Why would he condemn someone to hell at birth?

God holds us accountable to keep the whole law of God. When you break this law you evidence your choice to rebel against Him. And if you transgress an infinite God by transgressing his perfect law, you are also subject to an eternal punishment, righteously. By your sin you evidenced your freedom to chose. However, this freedom was converted to bondage and enslavement to sin because of your/our sin. For men and women, freedom is not something that can be created by us, only taken away. The freest a person can be is outside of sin, once in it, you are now captive to it and must be punished because of it. God doesn't condemn anyone to hell at birth, but the sinfulness of man has assumed this role of condemnation upon the Adamic race through disobedience.