Can Salvation be lost??
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There's already a thread on this topic here --> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/45812-once-saved-always-saved-does-new-testament-support.html
Yes, salvation can be lost forever. It happens when a person hears the gospel of Jesus Christ, who shed His blood, who died for them to put away their sins, and for some strange reason they do not believe that gospel by faith as a little child. The only way that God's eternal salvation can be lost is when it has never been received to become their new life through Christ.
No, salvation cannot be lost. However salvation brings certain fruit as to mark it (for the Church of God to discern) from plants who claim to be saved but by their actions and words/beliefs prove they aren't (and never were if they die in that state).
Matt.7:21-23, John 10:27-28; Heb.13:5; 1John 2:19; Rom.8:38-39.
I wish thee well.
Matt.7:21-23, John 10:27-28; Heb.13:5; 1John 2:19; Rom.8:38-39.
I wish thee well.
At a certain age you get the privilege to have a driver's license and can drive forever. However, that license to drive can be revoked if it's misused or you don’t meet certain requirements. Jesus gives eternal salvation to those who remain faithful and obedient to Him. You can’t walk in darkness and still hold onto salvation.
James 2:10- For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Matthew 5:13- Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
James 2:10- For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Matthew 5:13- Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
The only evidence that God is looking for that will satisfy and please Him is faith in His Son. When He sees that faith in the heart of the sinner through the light of the gospel, He instantly cleanses that sinner from all sin, imputes His own righteousness to that sinner accepting them and saves them to the uttermost (Heb 7:25). God is looking for that faith that comes from the preaching of the gospel of His Son and when He sees it He does His work and draws that person who heard it unto Himself through His Son. That is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance, to turn from themself unto God through Christ.
C
While salvation can not be lost, it can be willingly forfeited. While it's true that God does not command from us something that He himself is willing to bestow upon us, God fully expects us to love like Jesus loved and to live like Jesus lived because, once saved, God has given us His Spirit, the same Spirit and nature that dwelt in Christ.
So many today teach and preach the unconditional love of God and it is true however, they fail to comprehend that because God loves us so much that He has given us a portion of Himself to empower us to love others just as He loves us. Scripture states that we are to be Holy just as our God is Holy and to be perfect just as God our God perfect. He's not asking anything from us that He Himself has not already provided for (ie. the divine nature).
How is salvation forfeited? When we willingly refuse to follow the leading Holy Spirit. Our sin grieves Him due to the fact that He has provided everything necessary to overcome our sinful tendencies when we place our complete trust in the Word of God and are willing to surrender fully to His will. Unwillingness to surrender to His will, refusing to humble yourself and repent when the Holy Spirit is calling out to you to do so, that what it means to forfeit your salvation. Keep in mind that this doesn't happen over night or after a single or handful of willing sins. However, the Bible clearly describes in Romans 1 how the Lord is willing to turn one over to a "reprobate" mind (a lost state) if they absolutely refuse to humble themselves.
So many today teach and preach the unconditional love of God and it is true however, they fail to comprehend that because God loves us so much that He has given us a portion of Himself to empower us to love others just as He loves us. Scripture states that we are to be Holy just as our God is Holy and to be perfect just as God our God perfect. He's not asking anything from us that He Himself has not already provided for (ie. the divine nature).
How is salvation forfeited? When we willingly refuse to follow the leading Holy Spirit. Our sin grieves Him due to the fact that He has provided everything necessary to overcome our sinful tendencies when we place our complete trust in the Word of God and are willing to surrender fully to His will. Unwillingness to surrender to His will, refusing to humble yourself and repent when the Holy Spirit is calling out to you to do so, that what it means to forfeit your salvation. Keep in mind that this doesn't happen over night or after a single or handful of willing sins. However, the Bible clearly describes in Romans 1 how the Lord is willing to turn one over to a "reprobate" mind (a lost state) if they absolutely refuse to humble themselves.
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C
To degree yes, but there is a distinction. No one can unknowingly lose their salvation. However, one can willingly lay it down and walk away.
Let's resist the urge to play words games in an attempt to prove that one is more intelligent than the other. Such games are nothing more than pride and the flesh. Why not keep the language plain and simple so that potential readers do not get confused?
Let's resist the urge to play words games in an attempt to prove that one is more intelligent than the other. Such games are nothing more than pride and the flesh. Why not keep the language plain and simple so that potential readers do not get confused?
M
I agree with Crossfire and Tribesman. The statement by Starfield brought a thought to mind. I have a drivers licence here in the USA and I am a citizen of the USA. I can, of my own free will, leave the USA and go visit another country. I can die and be burried in that other country and so never return to the USA. My citizenship was not lost, nor was my drivers license ever revoked; I however, will never again see the USA or will my body ever return to the USA. So it is in the Kingdom of God. The other country is sin. My home country was the Kingdom of God.
I don't think your analogy is a good one for how the Kingdom of God works. Are saying you can be dead in sin but still be saved and be in God's kingdom? If one walks in darkness, they are out of God's kingdom; He will blot their name out of the book of Life. If their name is out of the book of Life are they still saved? No. There are two Kingdoms (the kingdom of God and the devil's). You get citizenship for Heaven but it can be taken away if you are dead in sin. You are either in or out; no partial or dual citizenship.
E
what are we saved from? The penalty of sin.
who took the penalty in our place? Christ.
Can we ever be free of the guilt of sin by being good from this minute on? John says if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and their is no truth in us. The verb and tense he used was present continuous, Which means if we say at any moment of our lives we are sinless, we are doing nothing but deceiving ourselves. and we do not realize the truth.
So again. What are we saved from? the penalty of sin.
Who saved us? Christ in his death.
If we can not stop sin, we are in a continual state of having to be saved, for that state in which we would no longer need to be saved would never exist. So how can we say we would ever be at any point in our life where we would no longer need salvation, let alone have the possibility of losing it for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER?
Now there is another person to look at. One who claims to be saved, But continues in sin. Can this person lose his salvation> According to scripture, he never had it, so he had nothing to lose.
as for the drivers license example. Gods kingdom is not of this world. You are still a citizen of that country, even though you left. When God comes to take us to the kingdom he promised us, We will go with him, we never lost our citizenship. Just like the prodigal son never stopped being a son.
A parable:
A man hated his father for things which happened to him, which he blamed on his father (even though it was not his fathers fault) and the man disowned his father and denied even being his fathers son.
many years later, the father died. The son, who lived on the opposite side of the country) got a knock at the door. The man standing at the door told the child his father had died, and he left his inheritance to you. The son replied, but I left my father, Thus I have no father to have. The man replied. That's fine, You are your father's son, nothing can take that away, For him to deny you, he would have to deny himself. even though you lost faith in your father, and out of anger left him, he remained faithful to you, Here is your fathers inheritiance, take it it is yours.
2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.
who took the penalty in our place? Christ.
Can we ever be free of the guilt of sin by being good from this minute on? John says if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and their is no truth in us. The verb and tense he used was present continuous, Which means if we say at any moment of our lives we are sinless, we are doing nothing but deceiving ourselves. and we do not realize the truth.
So again. What are we saved from? the penalty of sin.
Who saved us? Christ in his death.
If we can not stop sin, we are in a continual state of having to be saved, for that state in which we would no longer need to be saved would never exist. So how can we say we would ever be at any point in our life where we would no longer need salvation, let alone have the possibility of losing it for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER?
Now there is another person to look at. One who claims to be saved, But continues in sin. Can this person lose his salvation> According to scripture, he never had it, so he had nothing to lose.
as for the drivers license example. Gods kingdom is not of this world. You are still a citizen of that country, even though you left. When God comes to take us to the kingdom he promised us, We will go with him, we never lost our citizenship. Just like the prodigal son never stopped being a son.
A parable:
A man hated his father for things which happened to him, which he blamed on his father (even though it was not his fathers fault) and the man disowned his father and denied even being his fathers son.
many years later, the father died. The son, who lived on the opposite side of the country) got a knock at the door. The man standing at the door told the child his father had died, and he left his inheritance to you. The son replied, but I left my father, Thus I have no father to have. The man replied. That's fine, You are your father's son, nothing can take that away, For him to deny you, he would have to deny himself. even though you lost faith in your father, and out of anger left him, he remained faithful to you, Here is your fathers inheritiance, take it it is yours.
2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.
When we accept God as the one true God, and Jesus as our Savior then we receive forgiveness of sin. It isn’t works that God looks at but our acceptance of those facts. God forgives our sin. Just how far we can go in disobedience and still be included is the qestion. In Mark 3:28 and 29, I think God indicates that what he won’t forgive is turning from him as God.
Mark 3:
28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme. 29 But whoever blasphemes(against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness
Scripture does not say we become sinless when we are given the help of the HS. Even Paul said he had sin. We receive the forgiveness of sin through our faith. If we look to King David as an example of how God handles us after we are accepted as part of the kingdom, what we do doesn’t enter in to the acceptance. We are forgiven, but we still have to pay the price for sin while we live on this earth. David even murdered, he was punished for that by losing his child to death, but he was also forgiven and always included in God’s Kingdom.
Mark 3:
28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme. 29 But whoever blasphemes(against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness
Scripture does not say we become sinless when we are given the help of the HS. Even Paul said he had sin. We receive the forgiveness of sin through our faith. If we look to King David as an example of how God handles us after we are accepted as part of the kingdom, what we do doesn’t enter in to the acceptance. We are forgiven, but we still have to pay the price for sin while we live on this earth. David even murdered, he was punished for that by losing his child to death, but he was also forgiven and always included in God’s Kingdom.