Trinity?

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cmckey7127

Guest
#1
Well hello!
All you Christians out there I want YOUR opinion!

I have studied this doctrine defined as the Trinity, and I tend to see a lot of issues with it. So I am just curious is someone that actually knows anything about it. (Not what you have always been taught, But what you have Studied) Would give me a brief but intellectual standpoint on it, in hopes of a discussion. What is the Trinity in your own words? And from a biblical point of view Why do you believe it?
 
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Strong1

Guest
#2
I really want to get in on this discussion, but i have to move away from the computer for a bit............I'll leave something to ponder..........When the bible speaks of marriage, and "two becoming one"....how does that work?


I'll be back. :)
 
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intercessorginger

Guest
#3
The trinity speaks of the three part quality of the Godhead. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. "God in three persons..blessed trinity!"
 
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cmckey7127

Guest
#4
Strong1: Would love to have you join in on this conversation! To answer your question I would simply say that from a biblical standpoint that "they become One flesh" So I think more or less there is a covenant made, this covenant unites them in will, purpose, and flesh. I hope I understood your question :) -Cody mckey



intercessorginger: Yes I understand the definition. If you would answer the Second question? "Why do you believe it?" Keep the answer among scriptures pleas.
 
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Strong1

Guest
#5
The trinity speaks of the three part quality of the Godhead. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. "God in three persons..blessed trinity!"

Exactly said.
It is like one "family" three individual personalities. God(the Father) God(the son Jesus) God(the Holy Spirit) The scriptures are loaded with proof of a "Trinity" or "Triune Godhead" In the beginning When God(Trinity) made man, When Jesus began his ministry, and was baptized by John the Baptist......as a matter of fact this to me was the clearest indicator of a triune Godhead. God(the Father) from heaven spoke "audiably" "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased.." and God(holy spirit) came down as a dove and rested on God(Jesus)........ CLEAR AS DAY!
But, many other scriptures give clear indicators as well, Jesus told one of His disciples, that he would one day be seen on the "Right side" of the Father(God) and how no one knows the day of hIS RETURN, not the angels in heaven, and not even Jesus. (He is so aquainted with us, he would probably share this info with us ;)) Anything other than a "Trinity" makes zero sense to me......and I'm positive that God is not schitzofrenic.
 
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Strong1

Guest
#6
I would just say marriage is similar in that, exactly what you mentioned. Same will, purpose, of course not flesh, but perhaps spirit.
So God the Father, Son, Holy Spirit are One for the same reasons, yet very real but different personalities. Like man and wife.
 

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#7
When I hear or read the word Trinity, I assume the word is there to point out that there are at least three parts of God with no beginning or ending. This is true. The Holy Spirit (left hand) of The Right Hand (earthen vessel/flesh) of The Father is God. If this is a matter of our high priest Jesus being God, then I would just like to point out that we do not have a new original high priest of the everlasting priesthood. Jesus is the same high priest that walked with man before the earthen vessel was made flesh.

Even we (spirit of man joined with The Holy Spirit) have a heart, soul, mind, and strength in our spirit, and we have an earthen vessel that will be changed. The God is the only holy/good/righteous/etc motivator. The Father motivates us in ways, Jesus motivates us in ways, and The Holy Spirit motivates us in ways. There is another motivator which caused the heart,soul,mind,and strength of evil and dead spirits to be what they are. I do not own any part of a dead spirit, but I own a part of The Holy Spirit, and do have my inheritance even now, cause my inheritance is God alone. I hope this helped. If you want me to post a thread with all the scripture, then I will do that.
 
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cmckey7127

Guest
#8
Strong1. Ok so you believe that there is a council of three persons and THEY call them self's 1?
So let me ask you a question.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So this scripture say's the SON will be called The Father, The counsellor (Holy spirit) and much much more. Is Jesus the Father, and The Counsellor?
 
Oct 30, 2012
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#9
The trinity is a false man made doctrine. All man made doctrines will fall apart under a true search of scriptures. 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This passage states that they ARE one not IN one. The trinity doctrine attempts to put limits on God. God is not limited to a trinity or anything else. If you cannot find the word in the scriptures then you can be assured that men have invented it for their purposes which are not God's. Study the Word of God and not doctrines and creeds which only lead to confusion. The Word of God does not declare God to be anything other than God, don't put limiting doctrines and creeds into or before the Word of God.
 
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cmckey7127

Guest
#10
I would agree :) It does declare God to be one though!
 
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Strong1

Guest
#12
How do you explain what took place when Jesus was baptised? Explain according to scripture, pls.
 
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Strong1

Guest
#13
The trinity is a false man made doctrine. All man made doctrines will fall apart under a true search of scriptures. 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This passage states that they ARE one not IN one. The trinity doctrine attempts to put limits on God. God is not limited to a trinity or anything else. If you cannot find the word in the scriptures then you can be assured that men have invented it for their purposes which are not God's. Study the Word of God and not doctrines and creeds which only lead to confusion. The Word of God does not declare God to be anything other than God, don't put limiting doctrines and creeds into or before the Word of God.
Just as two married people being "One" same concept. Why complicate it. What you are stating is a "man made doctrine" How in the word does the trinity doctrine put limits on God?
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#14
Just as two married people being "One" same concept. Why complicate it. What you are stating is a "man made doctrine" How in the word does the trinity doctrine put limits on God?
This dear brother (Disciple539) is 2 years old (being saved in 2010, according to his profile) and he feels that he is spiritually mature enough to make such a defining statement, that 'The trinity is a false man made doctrine,' when in reality he is a spiritual 'babe,' what Paul calls in Greek a 'nepios' which means literally 'without the power of speech' and speaks of an infant or little child...Heb 5v13

Yahweh Shalom...
 
Oct 30, 2012
35
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#15
The trinity doctrine limits God to a finite number of manifestations. Is the creator of the universe limited to a man made doctrine? Let this never be!
 
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Strong1

Guest
#16
If anything, the "Oneness doctrine" limits God, in the very way you are trying to explain. You are so very wrong, and confidently, at that too. If you ask the Holy spirit to teach you He will.
 
Oct 30, 2012
35
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#17
This dear brother (Disciple539) is 2 years old (being saved in 2010, according to his profile) and he feels that he is spiritually mature enough to make such a defining statement, that 'The trinity is a false man made doctrine,' when in reality he is a spiritual 'babe,' what Paul calls in Greek a 'nepios' which means literally 'without the power of speech' and speaks of an infant or little child...Heb 5v13

Yahweh Shalom...
Why have you decided to insult me in such a way? I am 50 years old and was raised in an apostate church (rapture,trinity,Sunday worship,etc) where I answered the altar call at 9 years old. So brother I have been studying the word longer than you have been off of your mothers milk. Let's not insult each other over our disagreements. Prove what you believe with scripture. Show me in scripture where the word trinity is used to describe who or what God is. If it can't be found in the bible how do you know what is the definition of a trinity? Allow the bible to interpret itself and don't add to it or take anything away from it. If you decide to answer this please use scripture to prove your point.
 
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intercessorginger

Guest
#18
If you understood the defination....you would not have doubts on who Jesus is.
 
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Strong1

Guest
#19
I gave the example of Jesus' baptism. Scripture says A voice came from heaven saying, "this is my beloved son, in whom i am well pleased" HEAR YE HIM. Then the holy spirit came down from heaven as a dove and sat upon Jesus..........what more proof do you need? When God(The father) turned His back on Jesus while he was on the cross(Jesus asked Him, "My God, My God, Why has thou forsaken me?) What else could you arrive at in reading this? Why would Jesus say this out loud to within himself? That sounds so stupid to me, and as I said, God is not speaking to himself like a schitzo.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#20
Just a sample of what Scripture teaches:

The Father and the Son are not the same person:
Matthew 11:27
27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Galatians 4:4-7
4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[a] 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

John 17:3
3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Ephesians 1:17
17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[a] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

John 8:16
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Matthew 27:45–46
45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[a] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

1 Thessalonians 1:10
10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the deadJesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

The Son and the Spirit are not the same person:
Acts 10:38
38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

Romans 8:11
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[a] his Spirit who lives in you.

The Father and the Spirit are not the same.
John 14:26
26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 15:26
26 “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.

Father is God:
Philippians 1:2
2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus is God:
John 20:28
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Colossians 2:9
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

Holy Spirit is God:
Acts 5:3–4
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”



Plurality from the beginning:
Genesis 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”


Some of the Roles of the Father:
Draws people to the Son (John 6:44)
Father gives sheep to the Son (John 10:29)
Father has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12)
Ultimate source/cause of universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11)
Divine revelation (Revelation 1:1)
Salvation (John 3:16-17)
Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10)
Chooses who will be saved (Eph 1:4)

Some of the roles of the Son:
Atones for Sin (1 John 2:2)
Creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17)
Divine revelation (John 1:1; 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1)
Salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42)
Redeems (Eph 1:7)


Holy Spirit:
Seals the believer's Salvation (Ephesians 1:13)
Creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30)
Divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21)
Salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2)
Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38)
Holy Spirit seals (Eph 1:13)

Other verses dealing with Personhood:
Distinction between Father and Son (John 14:23)
Son sent by the Father (John 6:38)
Father gives sheep to the Son (John 10:29)
Father is Greater than Son (John 14:28)
Paul says “God and Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thessalonians 1:2, 12)
Jesus is the image the invisible God (Colossians 1:15)
David says “The Lord says to My Lord(Psalm 110:1)
The Lord Has a Son (Psalm 2:7,12 Proverbs 30:2-4)
Spirit distinguished from Lord (Numbers 27:18)
Spirit distinguished from God ((Psalm 51:10-12)
God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9)
Says the Father will send a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17)
Son makes reference to Father and Spirit ( Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1)
Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking.
Spirit descents upon Son, father is pleased (Matthew 3:16-17)
Baptize in name of each person (Matthew 28:19)
Grace of Jesus, Love of God, fellowship of Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 13:14)

As was mentioned already, you have a pretty well irrefutable text demonstrating the distinctiveness of the three persons.

Matthew 3:13-17
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son,[c] with whom I am well pleased.”

Conclusion? The doctrine of the Trinity is true.