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I'd have to say that is quite a mystery isn't it. Why is it that when One is present all tree are present? I know Jesus is God the Son, not God the Father or the Holy Spirit. When Jesus was baptized we have God the Son, then God the Father speaks and the Holy Spirit comes down.
It is just such a great mystery. When I pray to God the Father then why most I pray trough God the son, and why ask the Holy Spirit for wisdom.
I stil have much to grow, one day I will know why I just hope I get to spend the rest of the eternal life with them.
It is just such a great mystery. When I pray to God the Father then why most I pray trough God the son, and why ask the Holy Spirit for wisdom.
I stil have much to grow, one day I will know why I just hope I get to spend the rest of the eternal life with them.
T
Why indeed....
Why also does Jesus pray to God, not only in public but also in private if he is indeed, God in the flesh? Why too would he have prayed to God asking him "why have you forsaken me" while on the cross if he was in fact God. If he were God in the flesh surely he would have known he was God. Instead the scriptures teach us that God instructed Jesus and gave him truth, knowledge and power as tools to bring his message to us and guide us.
I do not wish to ruffle feathers but it would seem logical to me that although Jesus is a member of the Godhead, he could not be God fully.
As you can see I have a very difficult time with the Trinity idea and although it is true that faith does not require logic, we are an intelligent species which, to some degree requires logic to make sense of things. This does include faith.
Why also does Jesus pray to God, not only in public but also in private if he is indeed, God in the flesh? Why too would he have prayed to God asking him "why have you forsaken me" while on the cross if he was in fact God. If he were God in the flesh surely he would have known he was God. Instead the scriptures teach us that God instructed Jesus and gave him truth, knowledge and power as tools to bring his message to us and guide us.
I do not wish to ruffle feathers but it would seem logical to me that although Jesus is a member of the Godhead, he could not be God fully.
As you can see I have a very difficult time with the Trinity idea and although it is true that faith does not require logic, we are an intelligent species which, to some degree requires logic to make sense of things. This does include faith.
T
It is true, Truthseeker77, that you are not here to seek truth yourself, but rather to enlighten us as to Jehova's Witness doctrine, doctrine which you will not renounce in the face of all the wisdom that has been presented to you in former posts. In that sense your very screen name is a deception.
As has been stated already, in Genesis 18 Abraham saw three men and worshipped one. At Jesus' baptism, The Holy Spirit appears and the Father speaks. Answering your questions directly does not serve to enlighten you.
The bible states plainly in John 1 and Hebrews 1 that Jesus Christ is God. The Watchtower Society (Jehovas Witnesses) has done some very shoddy scholarship into Greek to attempt to explain that away.
The unspeakable name that God gave Himself, JHVH, is always translated (hundreds of times) "Kurios" in the Septuagint LXX (in English "The Lord"). Jesus quoted the Septuagint LXX texts in the gospels. "Kurios" is a title attributed to Lord Jesus both by Jehovahs Witnesses (Watchtower) and by the born-again world. Jesus is JHVH. That is lost on Watchtower, who attribute to "Kurios" a meaning that would rarely be used in reference to a peasant carpenter and do not link "Kurios" to JHVH. As stated before, the words "Kurios" and "JHVH" are linked hundreds of times in the LXX texts quoted by Jesus Himself.
As has been stated already, in Genesis 18 Abraham saw three men and worshipped one. At Jesus' baptism, The Holy Spirit appears and the Father speaks. Answering your questions directly does not serve to enlighten you.
The bible states plainly in John 1 and Hebrews 1 that Jesus Christ is God. The Watchtower Society (Jehovas Witnesses) has done some very shoddy scholarship into Greek to attempt to explain that away.
The unspeakable name that God gave Himself, JHVH, is always translated (hundreds of times) "Kurios" in the Septuagint LXX (in English "The Lord"). Jesus quoted the Septuagint LXX texts in the gospels. "Kurios" is a title attributed to Lord Jesus both by Jehovahs Witnesses (Watchtower) and by the born-again world. Jesus is JHVH. That is lost on Watchtower, who attribute to "Kurios" a meaning that would rarely be used in reference to a peasant carpenter and do not link "Kurios" to JHVH. As stated before, the words "Kurios" and "JHVH" are linked hundreds of times in the LXX texts quoted by Jesus Himself.
B
Hi Truthseeker
Excellent question, here are answers straight from the bible. As you can see they have confirmed your understanding of the trinity. God is the almighty, Jesus is Gods son and the holy spirit is Gods active force. Please let me know if you agree with this logic.
John 14:28,: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”
Matt. 26:39, : “Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.’” (If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity have been the Father’s will.)
Mark 13:32,: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)
Excellent question, here are answers straight from the bible. As you can see they have confirmed your understanding of the trinity. God is the almighty, Jesus is Gods son and the holy spirit is Gods active force. Please let me know if you agree with this logic.
John 14:28,: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”
Matt. 26:39, : “Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.’” (If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity have been the Father’s will.)
Mark 13:32,: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)
E
If they are ONE, how can the Son judge WITHOUT the Father and the Holy Ghost?
John 5
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
If they are ONE, how is it that ONLY the Father knows the time and the hour of Jesus return?
Matt.24
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mark 13
[32] But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
There is only one place from which we are to receive ALL of our doctine; God's holy word.
And there is ONLY one place in ALL of God's word that tells us just how The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are all one! And it comes from the mouth of Jesus Himself!
.
John 5
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
If they are ONE, how is it that ONLY the Father knows the time and the hour of Jesus return?
Matt.24
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mark 13
[32] But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
There is only one place from which we are to receive ALL of our doctine; God's holy word.
And there is ONLY one place in ALL of God's word that tells us just how The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are all one! And it comes from the mouth of Jesus Himself!
.
The only place in scripture one sees the presence of all three memers of the truadic unity in the same theophany is in Luke 3:22, "and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.” One other place in scripture we do find two members represented is in Gen.19:24 which says, "Then Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven."
E
If they are ONE, how can the Son judge WITHOUT the Father and the Holy Ghost?
John 5
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
If they are ONE, how is it that ONLY the Father knows the time and the hour of Jesus return?
Matt.24
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mark 13
[32] But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
There is only one place in ALL of God's word that tells us just how The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are all one!
And it comes from the mouth of Jesus Himself!
Readers.........READ your bibles! Get your doctrine from the scriptures......NOT from man! ALL of God's words MUST make sense!
.
Cherry-picking scriptures will not prove your point.
There are scriptures showing Father, Son, and Spirit judge the unrighteous.
Same as with answering prayer, creating the world, accepting worship, etc, etc, etc...
As a man, Jesus did not the hour.
As God, He did.
Even the authors of the Koran knew this distinction, that Jesus knows the hour...how is it that you do not?
T
That is a good analogy. I supposed I asked for logic and you gave it to me. Unfortunately it doesn't satisfy the questions. My questions are not revolutionary or "new" the Christian faith by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, those same questions have been asked for... God only knows how long. If there was a solid answer to satisfy them, they wouldn't be asked any more. Answers to most questions in life can be found within the scriptures. This I believe is true. It is up to man to translate the meaning of the scriptures in a fashion that satisfies his or her particular needs at the time. I don't mean that statement to be naive but if you look at how many different ways any given scripture can be perceived from one person to the next or one particular denomination to the next you will see my point.
First of all I am NOT Jehova's Witness. Second - how dare you accuse me of being deceptive for simply asking for clarification on a topic that is obviously touchy for some. You sir, have lost my attention to any further posts from you concerning this topic. I will not heed any advice given from a hypocrite. Your obvious hatred for the Jehova's Witness serves only to destroy your own worthiness. Love all, judge none. We are all children of God.
Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you very much for not being judgmental and answering my question with dignity. This will serve me well.
Thanks to the rest of you for quoting insightful scriptures as well. Have a great weekend!
First of all I am NOT Jehova's Witness. Second - how dare you accuse me of being deceptive for simply asking for clarification on a topic that is obviously touchy for some. You sir, have lost my attention to any further posts from you concerning this topic. I will not heed any advice given from a hypocrite. Your obvious hatred for the Jehova's Witness serves only to destroy your own worthiness. Love all, judge none. We are all children of God.
Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you very much for not being judgmental and answering my question with dignity. This will serve me well.
Thanks to the rest of you for quoting insightful scriptures as well. Have a great weekend!
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God the Son is a separate person from God the Father, though both are one and the same being.
In the one spirit Godhead, the Father's word and breath are persons, unlike in the physical order.
The Father's word is the person of his Son, and the Father's breath is the person of his Holy Spirit, and all are one and the same being.
The Son came to do the will of the Father (Jn 6:38).
Therefore, the Father instructed him, etc.
And it is the function of the Holy Spirit to guide us.
There are no half Gods in the Godhead.
And there are no half men in the human race.
The Son is fully God and fully man.
The operative word here is "some," and not "full."
We have "some" understanding:
1) in the one being of God, the Father's word and the Father's breath are separate persons from the person of the Father;
2) the separate persons of the one being of the Godhead have separate functions in redemption;
3) the Son is subject to the Father, because the Son is sent in the Father's name;
4) the Spirit is subject to the Father, because the Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name.
5) the Spirit is subject to the Son as well as the Father, because the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father.
But we don't have "full" understanding of:
1) how three divine persons can exist in one divine being,
2) how the physical body of the Son could be sired by his spirit Father,
3) how the Son could be both fully God and fully man,
because there is nothing in the natural order which can show us.
But although we don't know the "how", we know enough to make enough sense of the Trinity.
In the one spirit Godhead, the Father's word and breath are persons, unlike in the physical order.
The Father's word is the person of his Son, and the Father's breath is the person of his Holy Spirit, and all are one and the same being.
The Son came to do the will of the Father (Jn 6:38).
Therefore, the Father instructed him, etc.
And it is the function of the Holy Spirit to guide us.
There are no half Gods in the Godhead.
And there are no half men in the human race.
The Son is fully God and fully man.
The operative word here is "some," and not "full."
We have "some" understanding:
1) in the one being of God, the Father's word and the Father's breath are separate persons from the person of the Father;
2) the separate persons of the one being of the Godhead have separate functions in redemption;
3) the Son is subject to the Father, because the Son is sent in the Father's name;
4) the Spirit is subject to the Father, because the Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name.
5) the Spirit is subject to the Son as well as the Father, because the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father.
But we don't have "full" understanding of:
1) how three divine persons can exist in one divine being,
2) how the physical body of the Son could be sired by his spirit Father,
3) how the Son could be both fully God and fully man,
because there is nothing in the natural order which can show us.
But although we don't know the "how", we know enough to make enough sense of the Trinity.
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E
How is presenting scriptures "cherry-picking"? Are not we commanded to use and to live by ALL of God's words? Are not ALL scriptures provided to determine doctrine and to be used for correction?
2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
By all means...provide those scriptures where your claim is stated! Please provide where God's word tells us that the Father will judge the unrighteous. And that the Holy Spirit will judge the unrighteous.
How can there be scriptures saying what you claim when God's word tells us the following;
John 5
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
The Scriptures tells us that the Father will judge NO MAN!
If you provide scriptures that says the Father will judge man, ANY man, then Jesus lied! Did Jesus lie?
Do you know why Jesus tells us the Father will not judge man? Because only Jesus was tempted in all ways just as all of mankind. Thus Christ will be the perfect judge. He know just what man has gone through. He know just how hard it is for man to resist. The Father has NEVER been tempted.
Also...there is only ONE place in all of God's word where it is described just how The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all one. How about "cherry-picking" those scriptures and read God's word and provide to the readers what Jesus tells us!
.
2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
By all means...provide those scriptures where your claim is stated! Please provide where God's word tells us that the Father will judge the unrighteous. And that the Holy Spirit will judge the unrighteous.
How can there be scriptures saying what you claim when God's word tells us the following;
John 5
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
The Scriptures tells us that the Father will judge NO MAN!
If you provide scriptures that says the Father will judge man, ANY man, then Jesus lied! Did Jesus lie?
Do you know why Jesus tells us the Father will not judge man? Because only Jesus was tempted in all ways just as all of mankind. Thus Christ will be the perfect judge. He know just what man has gone through. He know just how hard it is for man to resist. The Father has NEVER been tempted.
Also...there is only ONE place in all of God's word where it is described just how The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all one. How about "cherry-picking" those scriptures and read God's word and provide to the readers what Jesus tells us!
.