I'm sick of arguing.

[just-me]

Use another room if you have differences with another person. Work it out in private like the Bible says to do. If others desire to watch the boxing match, they are welcomed to do that. As far as I am concerned, Biblical wrestling is totally repulsive when it becomes clear the differences will never be reconciled, and it usually doesn't take very long to make that discernment.
I am so sick of the arguing and “debating” in the Bible Study room, which as of last night has spilled over into what was an orderly Simple Bible room. It is definitely not pleasing to God when people profess to be Christians (“Christlike”) yet try to force their own opinions down the throats of others, usually without citing any scripture to back it up, and often not even truth, which explains no scriptural backup. Where is the love we are to have for one another? We are to correct our brothers and sisters when they are in error – LOVINGLY – and we are to accept the correction with humility. But correcting is to be done using the Bible, not hard line, immovable, belligerent, overbearing personal interpretation or opinion. I think we could all do well to put ourselves into the shoes of others and see ourselves as they do – and as God does. Or, take a good look in the mirror that James talks about and really make an effort to remember the repulsive image that we saw as we gave our adversary the upper hand. Then we could understand how we look to other people when we consistently exempt ourselves from humility. (James 1:22-24)
I have noticed that the donations have dropped considerably. Is there a connection, ya think?

 

[gb9]

if folks on here would remember that theology involves PEOPLE, not just thoughts and opinions. it is easy to take hard line stands when they are just in theory. go look a weeping person who is trying to get things right and follow Christ and be saved in the eye and tell them they have lost the chance to be saved because they have stumbled into sin again after saying they were done with it. many folks on here have those type attitudes and defend them.

 

[just-me]

The Bible is not theory! Truth cannot argue against itself. God it not the author of confusion, and a house divided against itself cannot stand. Arguments about scripture clearly indicate that somebody has it wrong. Get over doctrinal beliefs and if there is a difference in understanding allow yourself to be edified via the Truth that is confirmed in scripture. If you cannot bring yourself to do that, your self image takes precedence instead of our Father and Creator of all things.

 

[1still_waters]

Hi just-me. I understand your frustration with the arguing/debating/fighting/etc in the BSR and such. I'm trying to find a way to address this without stomping all over your valid feelings and frustrations.

I think we should desire to have as much peace as possible in chat, and in all of life. And sometimes what some consider debating/arguing/fighting/etc, is considered by many others as honest passionate truth seeking discussion.

Finding that sweet spot between not allowing rampant discord, and not stifling valid discussion can be quite challenging considering the diversity of people who come into this chat, and considering the variety of opinions on what people consider discord and valid debate.

Your opinion on what is discord is one of many opinions! Some may observe what you observe and think, "Hey man, lighten up. We're just a little passionate, but we're not shedding any blood or giving any bumps and bruises."

Deciphering between all these subjective opinions to an extent of what is and isn't discord, and then making a judgment call on what types of conversation to allow is going to be a tough call. Of course there are obvious levels of discussion that are nothing but discord and attacks and those shouldn't be allowed.

It is definitely not pleasing to God when people profess to be Christians (“Christlike”) yet try to force their own opinions down the throats of others, usually without citing any scripture to back it up, and often not even truth, which explains no scriptural backup.

This is an opinion, which is one of many! To many others what happens isn't forcing an opinion down a throat.

But correcting is to be done using the Bible, not hard line, immovable, belligerent, overbearing personal interpretation or opinion.

Statements like these can be used to try and quiet statements we disagree with. I mean if we disagree with something, then it's clearly not in the Bible and it's just a personal interpretation? But I'm getting somewhat off track here.

Christian chat has literally thousands of people from all types of backgrounds, with all types of perspectives. They all gather in this place called Christian chat. This is something we need to really get our minds around when we discuss the issue of debating/arguing/discord in Christian chat. Why?

Because I think by understanding such, it can give us some reasonable expectations when we enter/use chat and these forums. We need to understand that given the diversity of people, and diversity of opinions/personalities/temperaments/etc, that Christian chat isn't going to be a place where you're never going to feel uncomfortable. No one is going to have a seamless experience here where they never feel discomfort at all.

There ARE going to be people who rub you/us the wrong way. It's just the reality given all of the different types of folks who register and use the site.

I'm not saying attacks/fights/personal attacks/etc should be allowed due to these realities. Obviously we should and will try to prevent/stop/address those things when they do occur.

But given the subjective nature of so many diverse opinions on what is and isn't discord/fighting/etc, sometimes people may need to consider that their opinions on such matters is actually one of MANY opinions on such matters, and maybe allow for the fact that what they're observing is just debate/discussion. Again I'm not saying this thing is totally subjective, thus there is allowance for full on personal attacks and fighting.

So to sum it up. We all need to understand the diversity of folks using this chat. We all need to understand it's not going to be a seamless experience without discomfort from people who rub us the wrong way at times. Sometimes there is nothing wrong with the micro-events causing us discomfort. Sometimes it's "just me" (No pun intended.) who is feeling discomfort, and nothing wrong is really being done. We need to make allowance/grace for such. This doesn't mean there is permission to full on personal attack each other.

Given the diversities in chat, you're not going to have a seamless scenario where there is no perceived discord. You're not going to have a 100% perceived seamless "unity". You're just not. Everyone isn't going to agree with each other, and expecting this 100% seamless, discord free environment with no discomfort should not be expected as a reality that can be achieved. But this doesn't mean figurative blood letting, bruising and maiming is allowed.

I'm starting to repeat my self, so I'll just end here.

 

[1still_waters]

The Bible is not theory! Truth cannot argue against itself. God it not the author of confusion, and a house divided against itself cannot stand. Arguments about scripture clearly indicate that somebody has it wrong. Get over doctrinal beliefs and if there is a difference in understanding allow yourself to be edified via the Truth that is confirmed in scripture. If you cannot bring yourself to do that, your self image takes precedence instead of our Father and Creator of all things.

I think given that chat and forums is a place for discussing ideas, that statements like above, can kind of be used as a way to quench opinions that one doesn't agree with.

I don't think 50 (Hypothetical number. I could have used 2, 16, 7000 or 88.) people disagreeing on some of the so called "non-essentials" equates to a house divided. And again, given the diversity of folks who use this chat, expecting a perceived undivided house, where everyone agrees on all points of scripture, expecting such is an unreasonable expectation.

The whole "house divided" argument can be a handy way to shut down someone who disagrees with you. If someone says something you disagree with, you can simply declare the house now divided, and tell them to please stop before the roof caves in and crushes us all!

So let's be careful with playing the house divided card, especially in a venue with diversities of opinions on the non essentials, and in a venue that is somewhat built around discussing those things. If the house divided card gets played, there may not be much conversation in the house. And I don't think anyone wants that.

 

[just-me]

How to address the problem? There are more rooms not being used than are being used. Why can't a moderator direct disagreements to another room and then let the people who are causing the disturbance hash it out by themselves? I would bet there would be more edification that way than discord. Just a thought brother. If a room is labeled a Bible study room it would seem to me that Biblical principles of edification can be used for sure. In other words, the prayer room is to pray. The youtube is to listen to music, the you sing room is to serenade others who want to listen. I thought when we joined this site that we could share the truth. As I started doing that, then I was argued with by a few, but those few were predominant people. Now I find that my intent to learn and to share in a Biblical way stagnated. I can handle it and am old enough to do so. I don't disagree with what you are saying in a secular setting, but I was wrong in thinking that the format was somehow separate from the worlds standards.

 

[damombomb]

Psalm 127:1 Unless the Lord builds the house, we labor in vain, so lets take time to wait upon the Lord

 

[notuptome]

God's word is not argued it is proclaimed. God has said that His word goeth forth an it always accomplishes that to which He has purposed it. Isa 55:11
Quit feeling sorry when folks do not receive what you have given them. Give God's word and let Him do the work. We are not responsible to make people believe only to declare the word of God before them.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[1still_waters]

How to address the problem? There are more rooms not being used than are being used. Why can't a moderator direct disagreements to another room and then let the people who are causing the disturbance hash it out by themselves? I would bet there would be more edification that way than discord. Just a thought brother. If a room is labeled a Bible study room it would seem to me that Biblical principles of edification can be used for sure. In other words, the prayer room is to pray. The youtube is to listen to music, the you sing room is to serenade others who want to listen. I thought when we joined this site that we could share the truth. As I started doing that, then I was argued with by a few, but those few were predominant people. Now I find that my intent to learn and to share in a Biblical way stagnated. I can handle it and am old enough to do so. I don't disagree with what you are saying in a secular setting, but I was wrong in thinking that the format was somehow separate from the worlds standards.

The call for a heavier footprint for moderators.
The call for more moderator intervention.

Yes this is an option for easing the levels of discomfort for chatters.
But this option comes with another set of discomforts for chatters.

I'm sure you've seen a cartoon where there is a dam of water, where there are holes in the dam. The character in the cartoon sees a hole with water coming out, so he sticks his finger in that hole. YES..PROBLEM SOLVED! But oh wait, he looks over and sees water coming out of another hole. So he puts his finger in that hole too. PROBLEM SOLVED!! But oh wait. Now there is water coming out of yet another hole due to two fingers being in two other holes.

So yes admins/mods could direct conversations to other rooms.
Admins/mods could be very strict and make sure each room is used strictly for its own purpose.
Praying only in prayer.
Bible discussion only in Bible discussion.
Singing only in Yousing.
Redirecting conversations to other rooms.
You get the idea.


But you know what happens when we try to ease someone's discomforts by intervening like this?
We cause discomfort for those we are redirecting/telling to stay on topic/etc.
Then we get posts/reports about how they're uncomfortable because the admin/mods are being too strict, too controlling, and not allowing for fellowship.

Then since they may not follow said admin/mod intervention we may need to talk to them/infraction them/ban them for not following our requests. Which leads to other discomforts for others because their friend got banned/infractioned/talked to by those controlling, power hungry mods who are so strict and won't allow for fellowship, and open discussion. Then those people go to everyone else proclaiming the evils of those mods, who were simply trying to make others comfortable.

Yet if mods don't intervene to make the other group comfortable, then we get posts about how they are uncomfortable, and how the house is divided and ready to collapse and oh my!

So yeah, I could plug the hole by sticking my finger in, and redirecting conversation to other rooms, and being more strict on sticking to a room's intended use. But then the water would come out of another hole, and lead to others being uncomfortable.

I know this, because I've tried it.
It's really a matter of choosing which no win option you want.
I guess we've chosen to have room for discussion, and room for fellowship in rooms that may not always be used for their intended purposes.

I remember once I tried stopping a discussion in the prayer room. I got flack because maybe the discussion was somehow related to something someone needed prayer for. I remember many times trying to stop a brooding conflict in the Bible room, only to get rebuffed because others didn't see a conflict at all.

We simply can't make people comfortable 100% of the time. People need to get their heads around this reality.

Just-me I could try what you've suggested, but it's just going to lead to other discomforts, and it may end up causing you discomfort.

We're simply stuck with a set of no win options unfortunately.
And we've chosen this set, because it seems like the most workable of the no win options.

I really hope you, and others reading this can understand these things.

I really do understand and feel for how you feel.
I feel your frustrations.
But given the realities of running a chat room, and given the realities of the diversities of people using this room, certain things need to simply be understood.

We can't make folks comfortable 100% of the time.
And if we tried, we'd end up making you and others uncomfortable.

 

[1still_waters]

I thought when we joined this site that we could share the truth. As I started doing that, then I was argued with by a few, but those few were predominant people. Now I find that my intent to learn and to share in a Biblical way stagnated. I can handle it and am old enough to do so. I don't disagree with what you are saying in a secular setting, but I was wrong in thinking that the format was somehow separate from the worlds standards.

I don't think this statement is wholly fair.
It's not taking into consideration the unique dynamics that happen in Christian chat.
I've stated those unique dynamics a few times now, so I won't repeat myself.
But taking those dynamics into consideration should be done before declaring this some sort of secular venue.

We don't allow for folks to come in here and push an atheist or anti- Christian agenda.
We don't allow for free speech at any cost.
Yes there are perceived discords/dis-unities/disagreements. But those things don't mean this is a secular venue. The fact that we don't allow the anti-God stuff and the like should be proof that this isn't a secular format.

The things you perceive as making things secular, has more to do with the realities that I've repeated many times.

 

[just-me]

Amen! The problem is that the arguing and nastiness in the Bible Study room and as of last night the Simple Bible, prevents folks from doing that. It is those people I feel sorry for.

 

[just-me]

There are many people here that we have been able to help out and we thank God for that and for Roboop, the owner of the chat. Now we find ourselves after becoming better known, at a stalemate for the most part. I find what you say makes perfect sense and I'm not so naive as to not understand the reality of what you say. I see that our involvement has become drastically lessened because we don't contribute to debate and disagreements. God bless you and thank you for pointing out the reality that we already suspected. We have not been members long enough to understand the past as you know it. Thank you for the enlightenment. My hopes have not been dashed but maybe I was hoping for an unrealistic scenario concerning the gravity of truth.

 

[1still_waters]

There are many people here that we have been able to help out and we thank God for that and for Roboop, the owner of the chat. Now we find ourselves after becoming better known, at a stalemate for the most part. I find what you say makes perfect sense and I'm not so naive as to not understand the reality of what you say. I see that our involvement has become drastically lessened because we don't contribute to debate and disagreements. God bless you and thank you for pointing out the reality that we already suspected. We have not been members long enough to understand the past as you know it. Thank you for the enlightenment. My hopes have not been dashed but maybe I was hoping for an unrealistic scenario concerning the gravity of truth.

I hope you keep on inputting in chat.
You seem/appear very right on in your doctrine/teaching, without all the quirkyness that tends to come from those who consider themselves "Bible teachers" in a chat room context. Your continued input in chat and forums will/does help us keep closer to the ideal of a less discord/conflict ridden chat experience.

 

[just-me]

When one is undermined through PMs and silence speaks louder than words I would like to do exactly as you are exhorting me. I will continue to try through any open doors I might see. Thank you.

 

[HoldingOn2013]

I for one I am open to discussions when it is based on scripture. The problem I have with last night is that it was in the Simple Bible Room and there was no scripture being put up to discuss the topic presented. If those individuals would have backed up what was being said then an actual study would have happened. It's unfortunate that a few people can ruin a good thing. Last night was not about learning the word of God or having your eyes opened by the revelation of God's word when when someone brings up a good point. It was a debate, an "intelectual' argument and that is a very sad thing.

I say we do what people do in the Lounge. Just grab the mic and start a new conversation. Is that rude? Yes! But after thinking about this I think that more good would have come from turning that conversation around or having them get bored of being ignored and then maybe they would have taken the conversation out of that room. Who knows!

 

[Ariel82]

normally if most of the room doesn't pay attention to the two people debating and enter into a different conversation they will take it into a different room, but sometimes people are just arguing because they like having the attention from everyone else and that's why they find a busy room and pick up a topic they know will cause an explosion.

sometimes the best thing is to redirect the conversation to more beneficial things. normally if you stop everyone for a quick prayer, it settles down and the argumentative one seems to leave the room during the prayer.

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.

 

[danschance]

I didn't see what went on last nite. Even so, I find it unrealistic to expect people to discuss the bible and not occasionally get into a heated debate. I am not saying it is right or even acceptable, but we all know that religion, sex and politics are all powder keg issues. Even close friends can't discuss all issues.

Maybe there could be a temp suspension to allow all parties involved to cool off?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Proverbs 17:14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.

 

[hutchie]

I remember when I first participated in CC...particularly the bible study room....it was compelling and uplifting despite some moderate disagreements. The past several visits recently were not so. If people need to grind their axes do it in the shop alone and lets the sparks fly. The Word of God is sharper than any double-edged sword with that in mind let us wield it with care and not chop off arms and legs of individuals just learning to walk and grasp, even the mature get injured when the word is used haphazardly.

 

[Ariel82]

Its not the room or the format that makes CC a great place but the people within the room and the mutual respect and fellowship we have for one another.

normally if you bring up a good topic others who are interested will join in. personally I'm not a crowds person so I'd rather talk to just one or two people in a small room then try and monopolize the mic, but I've found that normally if God leads a crowd joins the room and the discussion, prayer and fellowship is pretty awesome.

sometimes if its a slow night it happens in the Bible discussion room if no one else isn't already engaged in heated topic.

I don't really spend that much time on live chat. its hard to multitask and still hold a conversation lol

I've found it interesting that most live chatters don't really comment that much on the forums and most forum posters aren't on live chat too often. though there are some exceptions.

I find it harder to hold deep theological discussion on live chat because it takes a long time to type and/or get the mic most of the time so the conversations can be kind of confusing. However i've found the chatrooms a great place for prayer and fellowship and building personal relationships and being mentored or prayed for or getting a quick survey of different views on a Bible verse.

<ok i'm done babbling. lol this is why I like forum posts. no one to get impatient or interrupt my monolog until I finish. hahahahawwaaa. >