Difference between God and Jesus

[Quickfire]

When I first came upon this theological controversy many years ago, I had wished I dident, because of all the questions it posed, and the research I was going to have to do to set my mind at ease... I very much embrace the early saints like Polycarp and that generation because they we all being killed for they Faith at that time, and to me, any man willing to die for Christ has the Truth in Him. Not many of us these days, at least in my country, will get put to that test, to see just where their Faith really lies...Id like to think we would all die for Him...After spending much time in the theology of all this, I then had to turn to my heart to see what it felt about all this...(and address my mind also)...My mind tells me if I spend to much time intellectually trying to work this out it would lead me down a dark rabbit hole with no end in sight, and my heart tells me to just Trust Christ, and all will be shown to us in Gods time...

Ill paraphrase a post I came across a few days ago that I thought was beautiful, and it went something like this...Im human, and Im a child of God..." "Me", I have a body, "me" I have a soul, and "me" I have God's Holy Spirit working inside me...All these things are "me", body, mind, Spirit".... so, for me this makes good sense. If my existence works in these dimensions all at the same time, then, its kind of hard for me to think the same cant be said for the Gods existence who made me...

The trinity can be either viewed as a 300AD'ish religious struggle of man seeking to control mans Faith paradigms, or a healthy view on the matter, all dispensed within Gods sovereignty...For me, I pray every day, in the Name of the Father,The Son, and The Holy Ghost. (My Church of choice right now is Calvary Church, a Bible bases church here in California, just to be fair in stating the stream of water I drink from at this time)...No human man raises the dead, heals the sick, or changes the world the way Christ did without reflecting Deity in its fullness...So for all intents and purposes, you could call me a man that sees God in terms of the Trinity, but as a man, I know I have a very limited capacity to see God in Full, so I have to step back and force myself to be Humble, because God shows me things only when Im in that state, which is not to often, but it dose happen now and then...lol...This subject has been battled over since 310AD, Debates will most likely go on for many more years to come. My favorite verse is 1 Cor/13, we can all only see in part...

For me ...The bible is the Word, and Doctrine will always take a back seat to it, but thats just me, so please dont view my statement as a call to arms. If Doctrine is a larger foundation for you, so be it, but I get all I need from the Scriptures, and the writings that have been inked by men on their knees since childhood,(monks), and die wrapped in the Love of Christ ... For Me...Interpretations (theology) is just mans best efforts to explain what God has already explained to us in Scripture. And its a powerful tool, but as all tools go, it can be used to build, or to tare down, and we have hundreds of years of history to look back at to see just how that can work...I firmly believe the road to God is through His Son...And not having the temperament for debate, I tend to find other avenues to minister through, but I have to say being new to all this, its been a very interesting week entering into this internet communication...God Bless, and be kind... Peace.

Nice post what you have to understand is that this thread and post does not come up much here because many times when it has come up in live chat, alot of the time it has come from Muslims, some of them have been lead to Christ because of it, and others have just brought it up to attack, what happens then is some of the people who have been attacked end up thinking whoever brings it up again is looking to attack when actual fact they are actual confused, hence my question where did god come from, "ALL we can answer that is God is eternity and eternity has no end and no beginning,

The other thing you have to understand is For people stuck in this state they think that this topic is just brought up to cause deviance or division, they are in fear of falling into an unforgiving world, through out this thread i have shown genuine innocent reasons why people struggle, and the typical response from some has been that from they where attacked,

Ths topic feel is the number one reason why people walk by sight and not by faith, the faith being in helping your brother or your sister, and having the faith in still helping your brother should the topic come up again,
We can all grow from this,
To go down the road of thinking a person is teaching false doctrine or not of god, or condem with out first understanding is happening all the time with this topic when ever it comes up in live bible chat i know ive been invovled several times,
So some one needs to step up and teach properly how to deal with this, because i have seen many brothers left hurt when someone gets booted for expressing why they dont believe why they do,
im fed up with the amount of people i have seen hurts put all there best efforts in to helping people with this subject only to see that person booted out and never again being able to help that person,

Peace brother

 

[MaranathaSoonQuick]

yet another of the same thread, I should name one similar to even this, ¨The difference between the Father and the Son.¨ But, to question this, in particular post #1 from about a week ago, Why is God called, the beginning and the end, Alpha and Omega, The first and the last, He who was and is and is to come? and do you realise if Jesus isn't God and only a mere mortal, His death on the cross meant absolutely nothing at all, also He would've went through breaking all kinds of parts of the law. And I read you say, read carefully, for us to notice the Word was here from the beginning, so you think He has one, but you missed the point in all obviousness at it's finest, (The Word was God). okay, and Since God was made Flesh, He was able to die. So there we have it, Flesh = Die, Anointed One (Christ) = Sinless Perfection (Keeper of all Laws). Look here;

[h=3]1 John 5:20[/h]New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

 

[curlyafropuff]

God is all knowing-omniscient.

Jesus says that unlike the Father, he is not all knowing-he is not omniscient.


Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So we have one God... three persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

How do we know they are separate persons?

How do we get 3 different persons? By definition a person has a body, and by definition spirit does not have a body.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:39
​

 

[Quickfire]

Hi Quickfire,

If you do not know then, why not take your mum to see the Pastor, and let him take her through it if she wants to, and yourself.

If she recently became a Christian I am sure she believed that Jesus is God? No one can fully understand the Trinity, but we an know what God has revealed.

Just start with..

Duet 6:4 Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one

So there is only one God. However,
and you still havent
The Father is God = Romans 1:7 (theres more verses)

The Son (Jesus) is God = Romans 9:5 (theres more verses)

The Holy Spirit is God = Acts 5:3-4 (theres more verses)

So we have one God... three persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

How do we know they are separate persons?

Now just taking a quick look at the Holy Spirit, he can talk and has a will:

Acts 13:2 - While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, qthe Holy Spirit said, r“Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul sfor the work to which I have called them.”

1 Cor 12:11All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually has he wills.

Jesus is God, therefore uncreated - he is God, he speaks, can be grieved and has a will. So also the Father

Are you starting to get it.

God is one being/nature/essence, yet three distinct persons, co equal, co eternal, omniscient, omnipotent etc.

However they function in differing ways.

you still haven't got it never mind ill ask you one last time is a person saved if they have not yet come to understand that Jesus is God ? please think and answer

 

[phil36]

you still haven't got it never mind ill ask you one last time is a person saved if they have not yet come to understand that Jesus is God ? please think and answer

I have answered that.

The answer is NO.

 

[Godslyric]

Hi Godslyric,

I have noticed that you say this and say tha and make it look friendly.. but there is a barb I your posts?... but you actually say plenty. I have read church history very interesting indeed.

I am sure the Mormons would totally agree with your above statements as would the children of God (sex cult), and any other cult.

If Polycarp took your view I suppose he wouldn't have had anytrouble? He stood for the faith.

What is the faith Godslyric? is it to believe what ever you want..it's ok man, peace an love,just have faith?

So what is faith based on Godslyric?

You seem to give yourself permission to utilize passive aggression towards others at will, all in the name of God...This, I find to be a very ugly self indulgence to say the very least...You say to a stranger (me), and I quote..."I am sure the Mormons would totally agree with your above statements as would the children of God (sex cult), and any other cult". Thats some ugly stuff you got going on there bro...I specified my Faith, and the Church I attend... I also follow John Piper's sermons very closely, their are many sermons from him online...Man, you should learn to be a brother instead of starting fights at every turn...Go find a boxing Gym dude, and get some of it out of your system...I have extended my hand to you 2 days ago by email, and you roll up on me like this?! You way out of line my friend...way out. Peace, Im not going to reply to any more of your nonsense, so move on...Unbelievable!

 

[cfultz3]

How do we get 3 different persons? By definition a person has a body, and by definition spirit does not have a body.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:39
​

I struggle with the word "person" myself. What word can be used to describe 3 identities (I know they are but one God): Father, Word, Holy Spirit. What about "personage"?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

God is all knowing-omniscient.

Jesus says that unlike the Father, he is not all knowing-he is not omniscient.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

He must not be the one true GOD, then (even though he is GOD).

I am able to do nothing from myself. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of the one [true GOD] who sent me. John 5:30
​

 

[phil36]

How do we get 3 different persons? By definition a person has a body, and by definition spirit does not have a body.

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. Luke 24:39
​

Jesus is both fully God and fully human.

Person.. in the sense of God, is a self consous rational being, individuality and self awareness... each use pronouns to describe the other.

 

[Quickfire]

yet another of the same thread, I should name one similar to even this, ¨The difference between the Father and the Son.¨ But, to question this, in particular post #1 from about a week ago, Why is God called, the beginning and the end, Alpha and Omega, The first and the last, He who was and is and is to come? and do you realise if Jesus isn't God and only a mere mortal, His death on the cross meant absolutely nothing at all, also He would've went through breaking all kinds of parts of the law. And I read you say, read carefully, for us to notice the Word was here from the beginning, so you think He has one, but you missed the point in all obviousness at it's finest, (The Word was God). okay, and Since God was made Flesh, He was able to die. So there we have it, Flesh = Die, Anointed One (Christ) = Sinless Perfection (Keeper of all Laws). Look here;

1 John 5:20

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

nice brother what if the unbelieving person told you where speaking cod wallop would you take afence, would you carry on trying to help, or just say something like ill speak to you tomorrow again if you want sorry i have confused you etc,

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You seem to give yourself permission to utilize passive aggression towards others at will, all in the name of God...This, I find to be a very ugly self indulgence to say the very least...You say to a stranger (me), and I quote..."I am sure the Mormons would totally agree with your above statements as would the children of God (sex cult), and any other cult". Thats some ugly stuff you got going on there bro...

Such is a modus operandi of Christian cage fighting.... all in the name of Jesus, of course...

 

[Quickfire]

I have answered that.

The answer is NO.

then would you say that to there face

 

[cfultz3]

He must not be the one true GOD, then (even though he is GOD).

I am able to do nothing from myself. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of the one [true GOD] who sent me. John 5:30
​

He must have been the Word who came in the flesh who emptied Himself out to have became that Son.

 

[MaranathaSoonQuick]

nice brother what if the unbelieving person told you where speaking cod wallop would you take afence, would you carry on trying to help, or just say something like ill speak to you tomorrow again if you want sorry i have confused you etc,

Titus 1:13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus is both fully God and fully human.

Person.. in the sense of God, is a self consous rational being, individuality and self awareness... each use pronouns to describe the other.

Of course he is fully GOD.

For the reasons I mentioned, though, person is a horrible word to use to refer to GOD's distinct and separate states of being.

 

[phil36]

You seem to give yourself permission to utilize passive aggression towards others at will, all in the name of God...This, I find to be a very ugly self indulgence to say the very least...You say to a stranger (me), and I quote..."I am sure the Mormons would totally agree with your above statements as would the children of God (sex cult), and any other cult". Thats some ugly stuff you got going on there bro...I specified my Faith, and the Church I attend... I also follow John Piper's sermons very closely, their are many sermons from him online...Man, you should learn to be a brother instead of starting fights at every turn...Go find a boxing Gym dude, and get some of it out of your system...I have extended my hand to you 2 days ago by email, and you roll up on me like this?! You way out of line my friend...way out. Peace, Im not going to reply to any more of your nonsense, so move on...Unbelievable!

Hi Godslyric,

It is not passive aggression, it is sheer disbelief in what I am hearing.

I am not starting fight, on the other hand you seem very keen to side with those in error, why I don't know.

I was asking you what is your faith based on.. if its just lets all get on and love and peace man, well w might aswell just agree with everthing going..

And if you remember I extended my hand to you aswell, however, changed your mind from using my name to attacking others standing for the truth, and now your back at it.

I find those like yourself Godslyric love to dish it out ( and reading your post above shows this) but cannot take it themselves. and not only dish it out but side with any old nonsense.

 

[phil36]

Of course he is fully GOD.

For the reasons I mentioned, though, person is a horrible word to use to refer to GOD's distinct and separate states of being.

I think you will find that God is not three states of being..

He is ONE BEING.

 

[phil36]

then would you say that to there face

I certainly would, out of sheer compassion for their souls, and explain to them who Jesus is.

 

[MaranathaSoonQuick]

isn't that the point quickfire, would you stand there and let them fall, or do all in your power to prevent their fall?