Difference between God and Jesus

[Quickfire]

Hi Quickfire,

I'm still not sure what you mean? Iso what is the difference between God and Jesus?

what does god from god mean, does that mean Jesus is the same being? or a different god?

as in he is a created god?

YOU keep saying hi quickfire, like only friends greet each other with hi ,( are you a friend or a presumptuous hippoocrit,?


For the last time Jesus was spiritually born of god unto mary who is god from god also Jesus sits on the right hand side of god.
ok answer these questions

Do you believe God is your God or everyone's God,

Do you believe people can express how they see the Trinity,

Can you even answer any of my questions,

Do you still believe that a christian is not a christian if they have not yet come to understand that Jesus is god ?

Do you believe that no man has fully understood the trinity.

are you scared to express how you see the trinity ?

Can we have a civilized discussion,

Are you jusy going to carry on presuming ?

How old are you

 

[phil36]

Hi Quickfire,

I don't velieve we can make our god, we need to follow the God of scripture as he has revealed in scripture.

I am struggling to understand what you are saying.. a few posts ago you hinted that Jesus was created before the universe, now you seem to be saying he was created only at his incarnation.


I still don't understand what you mean by - jesus is god of god.

Do you mean that Jesus is just like an angel..spirit, and not actually god, or do you mean God created another god?

 

[Quickfire]

If God created another god, then what justification does He have in His declaration of Him being the ONLY God? That would mean that the Word is a demigod.

Jesus is created only in the sense that He, the Word incarnated, has a beginning as the Son. But, it was the eternal Word of the Godhead who became this Jesus. If the Word, or even the Holy Spirit has a beginning, then by virtue of God, neither is God, as per you saying that Jesus is God. Jesus is God because it was still the Word in bodily form. Thus, Jesus was the eternal Word wrapped in flesh.

i said that god created the son from himself be for the universe was created, which was me trying to explain why it says in the bible the son who sits on the right hand side of god has always been one, no where have i stated there to different gods,
first of all your friends says im pulling the church to bits now your saying that im making out theres two separate gods,
and also your saying your friend is saying im being an heritic,

the pair of you have made me feel sick,

can i ask do you want to help

 

[Quickfire]

Hi Quickfire,

I don't velieve we can make our god, we need to follow the God of scripture as he has revealed in scripture.

I am struggling to understand what you are saying.. a few posts ago you hinted that Jesus was created before the universe, now you seem to be saying he was created only at his incarnation.


I still don't understand what you mean by - jesus is god of god.

Do you mean that Jesus is just like an angel..spirit, and not actually god, or do you mean God created another god?

goodbye

if anyone else wants to take part and help with my understandings please feel free

 

[Equuas]

Thank you so much Phil, Cfultz, Bryan and Greennice for your scriptural responses to those who have a struggle with understanding that Jesus is God. As I read through your posts I see a sincere love for those who disagree. A tough love so that they would see who Jesus is and not continue in a false doctrine and continue to preach and lead others astray.

 

[phil36]

Quickfire,

Duet 6:4 “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!

exodus 20 And God spoke all these words:

[SUP]2 [/SUP]“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before me.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. [SUP]5 [/SUP]You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, [SUP]6 [/SUP]but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]“You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.



I think it would be best to start here.

 

[cfultz3]

i said that god created the son from himself be for the universe was created, which was me trying to explain why it says in the bible the son who sits on the right hand side of god has always been one, no where have i stated there to different gods,
first of all your friends says im pulling the church to bits now your saying that im making out theres two separate gods,
and also your saying your friend is saying im being an heritic,

the pair of you have made me feel sick,

can i ask do you want to help

If it was the Word who became the Son, and if it is as say you, that God created Jesus, then you are saying that God created God. But, Jesus, in that the Word took flesh upon Himself, has a beginning, because the Word was never the God-human we know as Jesus. Jesus is not from eternity, the Word is from eternity. Jesus, the Son, has a beginning, but the Word is the same One We call Creator. Does our Creator have a beginning?

If there is but one God, then God would not have created the second person of the Godhead. But, we are told that the second person of the Godhead, the Word, the One who became the Son, is the CREATOR.

What I am saying is not that you are saying there are two Gods, but that if you say that God created God the Word who became the Son, then that Word is a demigod. If we say that it was God who made the Old Testament Covenant with the Hebrews and If the Messenger of the Lord said that He was the One who made that Covenant, then the Word must be God. If it is said that the Word created all things and uphold all things by His own power, then not only does it say that, but it also says that the Word, the One who became the Son, is God, in that HE CREATED and it is He who, by His Godly power, UPHOLD ALL THINGS.

I am sorry you find what I say sickening, but look at what "God created Jesus" really concludes : the Word is a demigod. I am nearly assured that you do not believe that there are two Gods, but One. The only reason the Son has a beginning is because the Word came down and took flesh upon Himself, but it was still the Word who came down. Perhaps, instead of saying, "God created Jesus", it could be said, "God born Jesus", which is true?

My intent is not to offend, but to show by reasoning that Jesus, who was the incarnated Word, was not created, but was born Son because it was the will of the Father who sent the Word out on a mission to had become that Son, that Savior, that Lamb, that King, that One who came to fulfill the Father's will as He did in the Old Testament.

 

[Quickfire]

hey i don't know anymore man, all i know is my wifes mum who is 72 only came to know last week that Jesus is god is still confused, and i feel a sense of guilt for her confusion, ( i think it would of probably been better if i had not have told her now,.
because she has read the bible all her life without confusion, and now she is a 72 year old confused lady,
and so me explaining all what you have just wrote there i don't think will help her,
s neither will i)

anyways this little heritc false God worshiping none christian church ripping apart heartless bastxxx is going now youll have to forgive me but i feel sick, ( need some peace)

oh and btw me saying that the son was a creation by the the father does not mean i think there is two gods, i believe the son and the farther have always been one, just the son was born of the farther, oh and how do i explain where god me from

 

[cfultz3]

anyways this little heritc false God worshiping none christian church ripping apart heartless bastxxx is going now youll have to forgive me but i feel sick, ( need some peace)

For the record, I have never said this of him.

 

[Quickfire]

sorry how do i explain to her where god came from i have already told her god had no beginning and no end,

 

[Quickfire]

For the record, I have never said this of him.

didnt say you had but other have

 

[cfultz3]

sorry how do i explain to her where god came from i have already told her god had no beginning and no end,

God always was. I do not understand what you are asking....

 

[cfultz3]

Are you asking: How Jesus, who is God, had a beginning?

 

[Quickfire]

Thank you so much Phil, Cfultz, Bryan and Greennice for your scriptural responses to those who have a struggle with understanding that Jesus is God. As I read through your posts I see a sincere love for those who disagree. A tough love so that they would see who Jesus is and not continue in a false doctrine and continue to preach and lead others astray.

who do you feel is leading people astray, ? me others, ?

your posts start by praising people only to slander people ???? all my questions have been innocent and i don't claim to know it know all. if you really think that everything is normal and descent respectful behavior the way some are behaving here then you need to go and re read this thread and the (is jesus god thread)

blessings peace be with you n the name of the farther the son and the spirit hope we can be friends and not enemies,

ill pray for you either way.

 

[Quickfire]

Are you asking: How Jesus, who is God, had a beginning?

nope im asking if ive already told Jesus God has no beginning the son and the farther have always been one, How do i explain it further to her if she does not understand this and still Ask where Jesus GOD came from,
Im sure you will get it sooner or later ,

 

[Godslyric]

When I first came upon this theological controversy many years ago, I had wished I dident, because of all the questions it posed, and the research I was going to have to do to set my mind at ease... I very much embrace the early saints like Polycarp and that generation because they we all being killed for they Faith at that time, and to me, any man willing to die for Christ has the Truth in Him. Not many of us these days, at least in my country, will get put to that test, to see just where their Faith really lies...Id like to think we would all die for Him...After spending much time in the theology of all this, I then had to turn to my heart to see what it felt about all this...(and address my mind also)...My mind tells me if I spend to much time intellectually trying to work this out it would lead me down a dark rabbit hole with no end in sight, and my heart tells me to just Trust Christ, and all will be shown to us in Gods time...

Ill paraphrase a post I came across a few days ago that I thought was beautiful, and it went something like this...Im human, and Im a child of God..." "Me", I have a body, "me" I have a soul, and "me" I have God's Holy Spirit working inside me...All these things are "me", body, mind, Spirit".... so, for me this makes good sense. If my existence works in these dimensions all at the same time, then, its kind of hard for me to think the same cant be said for the Gods existence who made me...

The trinity can be either viewed as a 300AD'ish religious struggle of man seeking to control mans Faith paradigms, or a healthy view on the matter, all dispensed within Gods sovereignty...For me, I pray every day, in the Name of the Father,The Son, and The Holy Ghost. (My Church of choice right now is Calvary Church, a Bible bases church here in California, just to be fair in stating the stream of water I drink from at this time)...No human man raises the dead, heals the sick, or changes the world the way Christ did without reflecting Deity in its fullness...So for all intents and purposes, you could call me a man that sees God in terms of the Trinity, but as a man, I know I have a very limited capacity to see God in Full, so I have to step back and force myself to be Humble, because God shows me things only when Im in that state, which is not to often, but it dose happen now and then...lol...This subject has been battled over since 310AD, Debates will most likely go on for many more years to come. My favorite verse is 1 Cor/13, we can all only see in part...

For me ...The bible is the Word, and Doctrine will always take a back seat to it, but thats just me, so please dont view my statement as a call to arms. If Doctrine is a larger foundation for you, so be it, but I get all I need from the Scriptures, and the writings that have been inked by men on their knees since childhood,(monks), and die wrapped in the Love of Christ ... For Me...Interpretations (theology) is just mans best efforts to explain what God has already explained to us in Scripture. And its a powerful tool, but as all tools go, it can be used to build, or to tare down, and we have hundreds of years of history to look back at to see just how that can work...I firmly believe the road to God is through His Son...And not having the temperament for debate, I tend to find other avenues to minister through, but I have to say being new to all this, its been a very interesting week entering into this internet communication...God Bless, and be kind... Peace.

 

[cfultz3]

nope im asking if ive already told Jesus God has no beginning the son and the farther have always been one, How do i explain it further to her if she does not understand this and still Ask where Jesus GOD came from,
Im sure you will get it sooner or later ,

Sorry, thought you were asking me to explain something to you. I do understand that Jesus was the Word who became flesh. Jesus was part human, therefore, He, as that human, cannot have came from eternity, seeing that man is His own creation. What I do get is that God our Creator came down from Heaven and took the flesh of humans upon Himself. Jesus was more than mere human, He was God in the flesh.

 

[cfultz3]

To some He has given this and to some He has given that....Please stop degrading one gift over another.....it is all the same Spirit....

 

[phil36]

nope im asking if ive already told Jesus God has no beginning the son and the farther have always been one, How do i explain it further to her if she does not understand this and still Ask where Jesus GOD came from,
Im sure you will get it sooner or later ,

Hi Quickfire,

If you do not know then, why not take your mum to see the Pastor, and let him take her through it if she wants to, and yourself.

If she recently became a Christian I am sure she believed that Jesus is God? No one can fully understand the Trinity, but we an know what God has revealed.

Just start with..

Duet 6:4 Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one

So there is only one God. However,

The Father is God = Romans 1:7 (theres more verses)

The Son (Jesus) is God = Romans 9:5 (theres more verses)

The Holy Spirit is God = Acts 5:3-4 (theres more verses)

So we have one God... three persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

How do we know they are separate persons?

Now just taking a quick look at the Holy Spirit, he can talk and has a will:

Acts 13:2 - While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, qthe Holy Spirit said, r“Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul sfor the work to which I have called them.”

1 Cor 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually has he wills.

Jesus is God, therefore uncreated - he is God, he speaks, can be grieved and has a will. So also the Father

Are you starting to get it.

God is one being/nature/essence, yet three distinct persons, co equal, co eternal, omniscient, omnipotent etc.

However they function in differing ways.

 

[phil36]

When I first came upon this theological controversy many years ago, I had wished I dident, because of all the questions it posed, and the research I was going to have to do to set my mind at ease... I very much embrace the early saints like Polycarp and that generation because they we all being killed for they Faith at that time, and to me, any man willing to die for Christ has the Truth in Him. Not many of us these days, at least in my country, will get put to that test, to see just where their Faith really lies...Id like to think we would all die for Him...After spending much time in the theology of all this, I then had to turn to my heart to see what it felt about all this...(and address my mind also)...My mind tells me if I spend to much time intellectually trying to work this out it would lead me down a dark rabbit hole with no end in sight, and my heart tells me to just Trust Christ, and all will be shown to us in Gods time...

Ill paraphrase a post I came across a few days ago that I thought was beautiful, and it went something like this...Im human, and Im a child of God..." "Me", I have a body, "me" I have a soul, and "me" I have God's Holy Spirit working inside me...All these things are "me", body, mind, Spirit".... so, for me this makes good sense. If my existence works in these dimensions all at the same time, then, its kind of hard for me to think the same cant be said for the Gods existence who made me...

The trinity can be either viewed as a 300AD'ish religious struggle of man seeking to control mans Faith paradigms, or a healthy view on the matter, all dispensed within Gods sovereignty...For me, I pray every day, in the Name of the Father,The Son, and The Holy Ghost. (My Church of choice right now is Calvary Church, a Bible bases church here in California, just to be fair in stating the stream of water I drink from at this time)...No human man raises the dead, heals the sick, or changes the world the way Christ did without reflecting Deity in its fullness...So for all intents and purposes, you could call me a man that sees God in terms of the Trinity, but as a man, I know I have a very limited capacity to see God in Full, so I have to step back and force myself to be Humble, because God shows me things only when Im in that state, which is not to often, but it dose happen now and then...lol...This subject has been battled over since 310AD, Debates will most likely go on for many more years to come. My favorite verse is 1 Cor/13, we can all only see in part...

For me ...The bible is the Word, and Doctrine will always take a back seat to it, but thats just me, so please dont view my statement as a call to arms. If Doctrine is a larger foundation for you, so be it, but I get all I need from the Scriptures, and the writings that have been inked by men on their knees since childhood,(monks), and die wrapped in the Love of Christ ... For Me...Interpretations (theology) is just mans best efforts to explain what God has already explained to us in Scripture. And its a powerful tool, but as all tools go, it can be used to build, or to tare down, and we have hundreds of years of history to look back at to see just how that can work...I firmly believe the road to God is through His Son...And not having the temperament for debate, I tend to find other avenues to minister through, but I have to say being new to all this, its been a very interesting week entering into this internet communication...God Bless, and be kind... Peace.

Hi Godslyric,

I have noticed that you say this and say tha and make it look friendly.. but there is a barb I your posts?... but you actually say plenty. I have read church history very interesting indeed.

I am sure the Mormons would totally agree with your above statements as would the children of God (sex cult), and any other cult.

If Polycarp took your view I suppose he wouldn't have had anytrouble? He stood for the faith.

What is the faith Godslyric? is it to believe what ever you want..it's ok man, peace an love,just have faith?

So what is faith based on Godslyric?