Rich Man & Lazarus
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D
This post shows that anyone who does not agree with you on this subject you consider part of a cult.
Christian Cult = A Christian oriented new religious movement, sometimes called a "sect" or "cult", is a new religious movement with a doctrine based on Christian scripture or dogma, but deviating from mainstream Christianity or historic essential doctrines of the Christian faith.
The sad part of this is you seem to be attacking me. It is ok. I can take it. Too bad you can't or won't answer my question posted ealier about why Jesus would include a story of two people whose's spirits survived death, if that is false doctrine.
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L
No. I completely disagree with your logic.
Christian Cult = A Christian oriented new religious movement, sometimes called a "sect" or "cult", is a new religious movement with a doctrine based on Christian scripture or dogma, but deviating from mainstream Christianity or historic essential doctrines of the Christian faith.
The sad part of this is you seem to be attacking me. It is ok. I can take it. Too bad you can't or won't answer my question posted ealier about why Jesus would include a story of two people whose's spirits survived death, if that is false doctrine.
Christian Cult = A Christian oriented new religious movement, sometimes called a "sect" or "cult", is a new religious movement with a doctrine based on Christian scripture or dogma, but deviating from mainstream Christianity or historic essential doctrines of the Christian faith.
The sad part of this is you seem to be attacking me. It is ok. I can take it. Too bad you can't or won't answer my question posted ealier about why Jesus would include a story of two people whose's spirits survived death, if that is false doctrine.
Cult logic class.
1) The Parable about Lazarus and the rich man is not a story.
2) Parables are a simple story to teach a moral or spiritual lesson.
Wait... What?
1) The Parable about Lazarus and the rich man is not a story.
2) Parables are a simple story to teach a moral or spiritual lesson.
Wait... What?
1) Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
So in ANY public setting the scripture says Christ used parables.
Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
So, here in a public setting He is speaking to the Pharisees. He is not teaching His disciples in a private setting. Now refer back to Mat 13:34
2) What is the purpose of a parable?
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Parables are not quaint stories to help explain truths to uneducated farm folk, they are designed to hide the truth from those whom are not called and to whom it has not been given to understand...
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
D
Is that your opinion of a cult or a dictionary definition? I can answer from the Bible all your questions but we have been over this before, you would not agree anyway.
https://www.google.com/search?q=def...0&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
Can you simply explain why Jesus would tell a story of two men who died and their spirits survived death if this is false doctrine as you believe? Do you believe Jesus would include into scripture a story that is about false doctrine?
Personally, I think this story is real and is true doctrine that human spirits survive death.
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L
That definition came straight from the internet. Please click the link below and read the very first definition.
https://www.google.com/search?q=def...0&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
Can you simply explain why Jesus would tell a story of two men who died and their spirits survived death if this is false doctrine as you believe? Do you believe Jesus would include into scripture a story that is about false doctrine?
Personally, I think this story is real and is true doctrine that human spirits survive death.
https://www.google.com/search?q=def...0&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
Can you simply explain why Jesus would tell a story of two men who died and their spirits survived death if this is false doctrine as you believe? Do you believe Jesus would include into scripture a story that is about false doctrine?
Personally, I think this story is real and is true doctrine that human spirits survive death.
Matthew 16:27
(27) for the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 25:31-33
(31) when the son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
(32) and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
(33) and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Matthew 25:34
(34) then shall the king say unto them on his right hand, come, ye blessed of my father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:41
(41) then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 22:12
(12) and, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
L
Also read the context of Luke 16, not just the parable on its own.
Luke 16:1 KJV
(1) And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luke 16:19 KJV
(19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:14 KJV
(14) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Why is Abraham mentioned?
Luke 3:8 KJV
(8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John 8:39 KJV
(39) They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Luke 16:24 KJV
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
So Jesus is teaching them they will not be saved because they think Abraham is their father, they are not God's chosen people because they they think Abraham is their father. We are saved because we belong to Christ, we are God's people because we belong to Christ, not because we belong to a denomination.
Luke 16:1 KJV
(1) And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luke 16:19 KJV
(19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:14 KJV
(14) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Why is Abraham mentioned?
Luke 3:8 KJV
(8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John 8:39 KJV
(39) They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Luke 16:24 KJV
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
So Jesus is teaching them they will not be saved because they think Abraham is their father, they are not God's chosen people because they they think Abraham is their father. We are saved because we belong to Christ, we are God's people because we belong to Christ, not because we belong to a denomination.
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D
Also read the context of Luke 16, not just the parable on its own.
Luke 16:1 KJV
(1) And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luke 16:19 KJV
(19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:14 KJV
(14) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Why is Abraham mentioned?
Luke 3:8 KJV
(8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John 8:39 KJV
(39) They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Luke 16:24 KJV
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
So Jesus is teaching them they will not be saved because they think Abraham is their father, they are not God's chosen people because they they think Abraham is their father. We are saved because we belong to Christ, we are God's people because we belong to Christ, not because we belong to a denomination.
Luke 16:1 KJV
(1) And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luke 16:19 KJV
(19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:14 KJV
(14) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Why is Abraham mentioned?
Luke 3:8 KJV
(8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John 8:39 KJV
(39) They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Luke 16:24 KJV
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
So Jesus is teaching them they will not be saved because they think Abraham is their father, they are not God's chosen people because they they think Abraham is their father. We are saved because we belong to Christ, we are God's people because we belong to Christ, not because we belong to a denomination.
Why would Jesus include a story of humans who died but their spirits/souls lived on in Hades if that is not true?
L
Sorry but that does not answer my question.
Why would Jesus include a story of humans who died but their spirits/souls lived on in Hades if that is not true?
Why would Jesus include a story of humans who died but their spirits/souls lived on in Hades if that is not true?
D
What it does show is that if Jesus is teaching life after death and people being rewarded at death then He contradicted Himself in His teachings because He clearly taught people are rewarded when He returns.
Also it is too bad that you still have not answered the question I asked of you. You did claim there is an answer and I would love to hear it, if you get the chance.
L
In the story Lazarus is carried by angels to God. Matthew 24 speaking of the return of Jesus says He will send His angels to gather His people. So Lazarus being carried by angels is not immediatly after death But, the return of Jesus. That then lines up with what Jesus clearly stated that people are rewarded when He returns.
Explain to me why you teach people are rewarded at death when Jesus clearly states they are rewarded when He returns? You can see the texts I already posts before showing this.
Explain to me why you teach people are rewarded at death when Jesus clearly states they are rewarded when He returns? You can see the texts I already posts before showing this.
D
In the story Lazarus is carried by angels to God. Matthew 24 speaking of the return of Jesus says He will send His angels to gather His people. So Lazarus being carried by angels is not immediatly after death But, the return of Jesus. That then lines up with what Jesus clearly stated that people are rewarded when He returns.
Explain to me why you teach people are rewarded at death when Jesus clearly states they are rewarded when He returns? You can see the texts I already posts before showing this.
Explain to me why you teach people are rewarded at death when Jesus clearly states they are rewarded when He returns? You can see the texts I already posts before showing this.
L
Oh dear, you are repeating yourself and hoping this time it sticks. You still have not answered my question and instead you ask me a question in hopes to free yourself from a dilemma. I will answer you question right after you answer mine, as I asked mine a long time ago.
Also read the context of Luke 16, not just the parable on its own.
Luke 16:1 KJV
(1) And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luke 16:19 KJV
(19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:14 KJV
(14) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Why is Abraham mentioned?
Luke 3:8 KJV
(8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John 8:39 KJV
(39) They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Luke 16:24 KJV
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
So Jesus is teaching them they will not be saved because they think Abraham is their father, they are not God's chosen people because they they think Abraham is their father. We are saved because we belong to Christ, we are God's people because we belong to Christ, not because we belong to a denomination.
Luke 16:1 KJV
(1) And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luke 16:19 KJV
(19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:14 KJV
(14) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Why is Abraham mentioned?
Luke 3:8 KJV
(8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John 8:39 KJV
(39) They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Luke 16:24 KJV
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
So Jesus is teaching them they will not be saved because they think Abraham is their father, they are not God's chosen people because they they think Abraham is their father. We are saved because we belong to Christ, we are God's people because we belong to Christ, not because we belong to a denomination.
A parable is a earthly story with a heavenly meaning. But this is taking place outside of human life, into the afterlife, literally.
But I don't understand why this is so important to debate over???
But I don't understand why this is so important to debate over???
If what you are saying is true, then it puts Jesus into hot water, because in this story/parable, He is clearly teaching that we are conscious, aware and alert after death. So either your belief on soul sleep is wrong or Jesus is wrong. Now, I must admit that I do not believe Jesus has ever been wrong.
Also it is too bad that you still have not answered the question I asked of you. You did claim there is an answer and I would love to hear it, if you get the chance.
Also it is too bad that you still have not answered the question I asked of you. You did claim there is an answer and I would love to hear it, if you get the chance.
Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Luk 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luk 8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.
Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
This is the teaching of Christ, Luke, Paul and Peter.
D
It is just like I said before you will not listen anyway.
Why would Jesus tell a story about life after death if you believe this is false?
I guess i will just continue to ask this question until a brave soul answers it. But thankx for claiming you think there is an answer, it gives me hope that someday, some one will have an answer for me.
D
Or is it possible you might be wrong?
Very simple question but it remains unanswered.
All I am doing is asking a simple question. If we do no survive death then why did Jesus tell a story about 3 men who after they died they continued on. The rich man went to Hell and Abraham and Lazarus went to a place of comfort. Why would Jesus tell this story about souls surviving death if that is false doctrine, as some believe?
Very simple question but it remains unanswered.
Very simple question but it remains unanswered.