Rich Man & Lazarus
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D
Can anyone who believes that we do not survive death in a conscious alert state answer my simple question?
If as you believe there is no life after death then why did Jesus tell a story/parable about three people (Lazarus the beggar and the rich man) who did just that? Why would Jesus tell a story that includes what you believe to be false doctrine?
Please think about this and give me your best answer. Talk it over with your pastor if need be.
If as you believe there is no life after death then why did Jesus tell a story/parable about three people (Lazarus the beggar and the rich man) who did just that? Why would Jesus tell a story that includes what you believe to be false doctrine?
Please think about this and give me your best answer. Talk it over with your pastor if need be.
D
I don't care if it is a parable or not. Keep in mind you are saying story does not equal parable, which is ludicrous. All parables are stories. The reason you so desperately need this to be a parable is so you can down play the obvious "life after death" element in this story.
So why would Jesus tell a story that showcases life after death if this is false theology, as you believe?
So why would Jesus tell a story that showcases life after death if this is false theology, as you believe?
L
That is true it has been answered but because it is not the answer he wanted he keeps on asking thinking it has not been answered. Doctrine is based on many verses not one. There are many verses which show people are rewarded when Jesus returns not when they die. So we need to understand the symbols of the parable. It is clear from the context of Luke 16 the rich man is the Pharisees.
From the context of Luke 16, not just the parable on its own.
Luke 16:1 KJV(1) And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luke 16:19 KJV
(19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:14 KJV
(14) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Why is Abraham mentioned?
Luke 3:8 KJV
(8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John 8:39 KJV
(39) They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Luke 16:24 KJV
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
So Jesus is teaching them they will not be saved because they think Abraham is their father, they are not God's chosen people because they they think Abraham is their father. We are saved because we belong to Christ, we are God's people because we belong to Christ, not because we belong to a denomination.
From the context of Luke 16, not just the parable on its own.
Luke 16:1 KJV(1) And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luke 16:19 KJV
(19) There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luke 16:14 KJV
(14) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Why is Abraham mentioned?
Luke 3:8 KJV
(8) Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
John 8:39 KJV
(39) They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Luke 16:24 KJV
(24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
So Jesus is teaching them they will not be saved because they think Abraham is their father, they are not God's chosen people because they they think Abraham is their father. We are saved because we belong to Christ, we are God's people because we belong to Christ, not because we belong to a denomination.
D
1) If someone answered my question, I did not recognize it. Please direct me to it, as I would greatly enjoy reading it.
2) Why the rich man is not named in this story is simple and has nothing to do with the rich man being allegory, a metaphor or a symbol.
Jesus is in a intimate relationship with us, but He refuses to be in a relationship with those who reject him.
3) This is why Abraham is named and Lazarus is named but not the rich man.
2) Why the rich man is not named in this story is simple and has nothing to do with the rich man being allegory, a metaphor or a symbol.
Jesus is in a intimate relationship with us, but He refuses to be in a relationship with those who reject him.
3) This is why Abraham is named and Lazarus is named but not the rich man.
D
This will happen on earth. Jesus will come and deal with those billions of living people and give them the reward they deserve. Notice how it never mentions "I will resurrect the living and the dead to give them the reward they deserve". So unfortunately this is taken out of context and misapplied. Error begets more error.
Once you embrace a lie it becomes easier to embrace more lies and falsehoods.
Once you embrace a lie it becomes easier to embrace more lies and falsehoods.
D
Parables teach a single kingdom truth.
Parable of the Guests - Give to the poor and you will be rewarded.
Parable of the Dinner - All are invited into Heaven.
Parable of the Lost Sheep - All of Heaven rejoices when a backslider comes back to into the fold.
Parable of the Lost Coin - All of Heaven rejoices when a sinner repents.
Parable of the Prodigal Son - All of Heaven rejoices when a sinner repents.
Parable of the Shrewd Manager - Be generous with others that you will have a eternal reward.
So, if the story of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable, then it must also be teaching a single kingdom truth.
What do you think that is?
L
Notice what the name Lazarus means
G2976
Λάζαρος
Lazaros
Thayer Definition:
Lazarus = “whom God helps” (a form of the Hebrew name Eleazar)
1) an inhabitant of Bethany, beloved by Christ and raised from the dead by him
2) a very poor and wretched person to whom Jesus referred to in Luk_16:20-25
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: probably of Hebrew origin H499
Read the context of Luke 15 & 16 and answer these questions, Why does Jesus tell all the parables in Luke 15 & 16? Who is Jesus speaking to in these chapters.
G2976
Λάζαρος
Lazaros
Thayer Definition:
Lazarus = “whom God helps” (a form of the Hebrew name Eleazar)
1) an inhabitant of Bethany, beloved by Christ and raised from the dead by him
2) a very poor and wretched person to whom Jesus referred to in Luk_16:20-25
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: probably of Hebrew origin H499
Read the context of Luke 15 & 16 and answer these questions, Why does Jesus tell all the parables in Luke 15 & 16? Who is Jesus speaking to in these chapters.
D
I do not understand what this has to do with anything. All I want to know is how do you explain why this story/or whatever you wish to call it, has a main theme of life after death when you believe this is not true. So in you own words, what does it mean when Jesus uses something false in a story?
Personally, I think that the reason why this story has a main theme of life after death is simple, because it is true. Life after death is taught in this story/parable and that speaks volumes of it being true. Jesus would never use false concepts in any story or parable. Too bad you can't give me a direct answer to my question that I have asked you several times.
D
Well, look at this verse:
Here is the verse I meant to post and it failed to copy.
They context answers your question:
These are people who were in the ministry. They prayed and miracles happened. They cast out demons and even prophesied, yet Jesus said He never knew them. Yes, they thought they knew God and had done his will, but clearly they did not do God's will. This is one of them most terrifying verses in the bible and yet the people who need to understand this the most won't get the message.
Here is the verse I meant to post and it failed to copy.
They context answers your question:
These are people who were in the ministry. They prayed and miracles happened. They cast out demons and even prophesied, yet Jesus said He never knew them. Yes, they thought they knew God and had done his will, but clearly they did not do God's will. This is one of them most terrifying verses in the bible and yet the people who need to understand this the most won't get the message.
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D
Yes, I posted the parables in Luke that precede to story of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man.
So as you can see, I do understand what you are saying.
Unfortunately you can not prove this is a parable because it is placed near other parables. That is a logical fallacy of "Guilt by association". Even if this is a parable, it doesn't matter. It still has a main theme of life after death. I can't accept that Jesus would ever tell a story or a parable that takes place after two men died and one is in Hell and the other in Abraham's bosom, if that is false. There is no deception in the bible.
There are no false concepts in the bible. It is truth on every page. You can't see that you have accepted a lie. The lie of no life right after death. This story/parable is all about life after death and you can't see that.
So as you can see, I do understand what you are saying.
Unfortunately you can not prove this is a parable because it is placed near other parables. That is a logical fallacy of "Guilt by association". Even if this is a parable, it doesn't matter. It still has a main theme of life after death. I can't accept that Jesus would ever tell a story or a parable that takes place after two men died and one is in Hell and the other in Abraham's bosom, if that is false. There is no deception in the bible.
There are no false concepts in the bible. It is truth on every page. You can't see that you have accepted a lie. The lie of no life right after death. This story/parable is all about life after death and you can't see that.
L
This is the context of why Jesus began to teach all the parables in Luke 15 & 16
Luke 15:1-3 KJV
(1) Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
(2) And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
(3) And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
The parables in Luke 15 are about different types of people who are lost who are found and saved. Some are lost and cannot find there way home, others do not know they are lost. They are parables to answer the Pharisees who mummer against Christ. The parables in Luke 16 are the same they are directed at the Pharisees.
Luke 15:1-3 KJV
(1) Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
(2) And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
(3) And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
The parables in Luke 15 are about different types of people who are lost who are found and saved. Some are lost and cannot find there way home, others do not know they are lost. They are parables to answer the Pharisees who mummer against Christ. The parables in Luke 16 are the same they are directed at the Pharisees.
Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The children of the Kingdom here being the self-righteous Pharisees.
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The children of the Kingdom here being the self-righteous Pharisees.