77 generations

AnandaHya · Jul 8, 2011

did you count 77 generations between the 1st and 2nd Adam?

Luke 3
The Genealogy of Jesus Christ

23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,[d]the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Janna, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathiah, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathiah, the son of Semei, the son of Joseph, the son of Judah, 27 the son of Joannas, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmodam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Jose, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonan, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menan, the son of Mattathah, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God

1 Corinthians 15:44-46
New King James Version (NKJV)
44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.”[a] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

what is the difference between the natural body and the spiritual body?

AnandaHya · Jul 8, 2011

why are there 66 books in the Bible and not 77?

its a question that I've been wondering for a while and i don't know perhaps one of you have the answer of why the canonized scriptures only have 66 books. since you know the number 6 is one less then 7 which 7 is suppose to represent God's perfection. you see the 7 candlesticks the 7 churches, 7 spirits of God, etc.

I read someone where that God gave each book in the OT a number so that when people copied it they would not miss a single word. that there were built in patterns to help make sure the transmission of His message stayed true to form.

for example everyone knows we have 10 commandments. mmmm.... numbers and names are the hardest to decipher.

Grandpa · Jul 8, 2011

Maybe there are 77 books and we get the next 11 when we "graduate" ...

MaggieMye · Jul 8, 2011

MAN decided the 66 books, not God. Do your history research!!

Grandpa · Jul 8, 2011

I think God is sovereign and if He wanted 68 books in the bible then there would be 68, if He wanted 62 then there would be 62. We get 66 because that is what God wants us to have, in my humble opinion. I know there were meetings that were held and they decided which books were redundant or not necessary and took them out (apocrypha).

AnandaHya · Jul 9, 2011

Grandpa said:

how many books are in the apocrypha? lol i'll research but you get a lot of different answer

AnandaHya · Jul 9, 2011

oh I found them. interesting.

1611 KING JAMES BIBLE (1611 BIBLE)

1 Esdras
2 Esdras
Tobit
Judith
Additions to Esther
Wisdom of Solomon
Ecclesiasticus
Baruch
Letter of Jeremiah
Prayer of Azariah
Susanna
Bel and the Dragon
Prayer of Manasseh
1 Maccabees
2 Maccabees

if you add the ones in blue back to the original books you would get 77...and this is considered the original king James Bible. they say 80 books. so anyone know why they were removed from the Protestant Bible?

Digital_Angel_316 · Jul 9, 2011

AnandaHya said:

This count also agrees with the seventy generations from Enoch[1] set forth in the Book
of Enoch, which Luke probably knew.[2] Though Luke never counts the generations as
Matthew does, it appears that he too follows the hebdomadic principle of working in
sevens. However, Irenaeus, one of the earliest witnesses, counts only 72 generations
from Adam.[3]

Since the nature of Luke’s genealogy has made it particularly susceptible to scribal
corruption, determining the original text from the manuscript evidence has been
especially problematic. The most controversial section, oddly, is in the ancestry of David,
which is well established in the Old Testament. Although the reading “son of Aminadab,
son of Aram,” in agreement with the Old Testament, is well attested, the Nestle-Aland
critical edition, considered the best authority by most modern scholars, accepts the
variant “son of Aminadab, son of Admin, son of Arni,” counting the 77 generations from
Adam rather than God.

Luke’s qualification “as was supposed” (ενομιζετο) avoids stating that Jesus was actually
a son of Joseph, since his virgin birth is affirmed in the same gospel. There are, however,
several interpretations of how this qualification relates to the rest of the genealogy:

* Some see the remainder as the true genealogy of Joseph, despite the different
genealogy given in Matthew.

* Others see the lineage as a legal ancestry, rather than an ancestry according to
blood—Joseph is thus a legal son of Eli, perhaps a son-in-law or adopted son.

* Still others suggest that Luke is repeating an untrustworthy record without affirming
its accuracy.

* Lastly, some, from as early as John of Damscus, view “as was supposed of Joseph” as a
parenthetical note, with Luke actually calling Jesus a son of Eli—meaning, it is then
suggested, that Helii (Ηλι, Heli) is the maternal grandfather of Jesus, and Luke is actually
tracing the ancestry of Jesus according to the flesh through Mary. Therefore per Adam
Clarke (1817), John Wesley, John Kitto and others the expression "Joseph, [ ] of Heli",
without the word "son" being present in the Greek, indicates that "Joseph, of Heli" is to
be read "Joseph, [son-in-law] of Heli".

1) ^ 1 Enoch 10:11–12.

2) ^ a b c Richard Bauckham (2004), Jude and the Relatives of Jesus in the EarlyChurch,
London: T & T Clark International, pp. 315–373, ISBN 9780567082978.

3) ^ Irenaeus, Adversus haereses (Against Heresies), 3.22.3

Referenced from (link); Genealogy of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Digital_Angel_316 · Jul 9, 2011

AnandaHya said:

The letter of Isaiah has 66 chapters, divided into 39 chapters and 27 chapters, just as
there are 39 Old Testament books and 27 New Testament books.

Some count the Old Testament as only 24, grouping things as 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings,
1 and 2 Chronicles, grouping some of the lesser prophets (lesser amount of writing) and
wisdom writings. Some say these then are referred to as 'the 24 men sitting around the
table'

The origin of the Authorized Canon and a discussion on the Apocrypha is and should be a
topic for another thread (there is one at least ongoing here).

AnandaHya · Jul 9, 2011

Matthew is the genealogy of Joseph step father of Jesus, Luke is of Mary mother of Jesus

(at least that is what has been explained to me, still researching the names)

notice the difference one is traced through Solomon son of David and the other is traced through Nathan son of David. Also Mary's aunt was of the Aaronic line. She is the person who bore John the Baptist. therefore she must be related to Mary on her mother's side.

but yeah haven't read the supposed book of Enoch.

Digital_Angel_316 · Jul 9, 2011

AnandaHya said:

I edited your post to add listing numbers:

I think you mean, if you add all the ones BUT (except) the ones in blue you get 77. That is
to say ... 66 current books + 11 Apocryphal books in your list == 66 + 11 == 77.

Check my math to be sure.

AnandaHya · Jul 9, 2011

Digital_Angel_316 said:

alright link it and I'll read up on it when I get a chance.

AnandaHya · Jul 9, 2011

Digital_Angel_316 said:

I just wanted to know why some books were kept and some tossed out because I don't see the contradiction to scripture and why were they first included but now not.

Digital_Angel_316 · Jul 9, 2011

AnandaHya said:

You can start with the wikipedia link I posted earlier. It reviews the many angles and
disputations. I am not saying I agree with it, but it is a good summary to start with to get an
overview. Many say Luke is of Mary as you said, I disagree.

Digital_Angel_316 · Jul 9, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Simplistic answer is that the apocryphal books are seen as history, but not doctrine. The
history depicted therein is so appalling, that many felt it was best to leave the books out lest
by satyre (satire) many would follow the practices of the people in those times. The idea
being, if you kill the host, you kill the disease. Think of it as reading a History book on
Medo-Persia, you might accept the historical information, but you would certainly not want
to adapt/assimilate the historical practices.

AnandaHya · Jul 9, 2011

Digital_Angel_316 said:

Simplistic answer is that the apocryphal books are seen as history, but not doctrine. The
history depicted therein is so appalling, that many felt it was best to leave the books out lest
by satyre (satire) many would follow the practices of the people in those times. The idea
being, if you kill the host, you kill the disease. Think of it as reading a History book on
Medo-Persia, you might accept the historical information, but you would certainly not want
to adapt/assimilate the historical practices.

ok thanks. I will have to look into it all.

so what are your views on the genealogy of Luke?

Digital_Angel_316 · Jul 9, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Another look at Matthew (not trying to confuse):
The Generation Chart

All the generations from Adam to David are thirty-three (33), and all the generations from Solomon to Jesus are 33. [Compare the symmetry logic with Matthew 1:17].
Genesis 5 and 11, 1Chr1-3:17 .................> Three Periods of 14 Generations

1. Adam ................... 20. Abraham ................34. Solomon .............53. Salathiel
2. Seth .................... 21. Isaac .......................35. Rehoboam ..........54. Zerubbabel
3. Enos .....................22. Jacob I ....................36. Abijam ...............55. Abiud
4. Cainan ..................23. Judah(Tamar) ..........37. Asa ....................56. Eliakim
5. Mahalaleel .............24. Pharez .....................38. Jehoshaphat .....57. Azor
6. Jared ....................25. Esrom ......................39. Jehoram ............58. Sadoc
7. Enoch II ..................26. Aram .......................40.* Ahaziah ...........59. Achim
8. Methuselah ...........27. Aminidab .................41. * Joash .............60. Eliud
9. Lamech II ...............28. Naason .....................42. * Amaziah ........61. Eleazar
10. NOAH ..................29. Salmon(Rahab) ........43. Uzziah ...............62. Matthan
11. Shem ..................30. Boaz (Ruth)............. 44. Jotham ............ 63. Jacob II
12. Arphaxad ............31. Obed ....................... 45. Ahaz .................64. Joseph (father)
13. Salah/Shelah ......32. Jesse .........................46. Hezekiah ...........65. Mary
14. Eber ....................33. DAVID .......................47. Manasseh .........66. JESUS
15. Peleg ..................48. Amon
16. Reu .....................49. Josiah
17. Serug ..................50. * Jehoiakim
18. Nahor ..................51. Jechonias
19. Terah .................. 52. * Assir

Notice first that there are thirty-three (33) generations leading to David, and then
thirty-three (33) leading to Jesus. Then note that all of the sixty-six names (except for
Jacob) are unique and different. The generations marked with (*) are recorded in the Old
Testament, but aren't found in Matthew: a fact which to this very day continues to baffle
many scholars.

Reference (link): Bible Generations

Digital_Angel_316 · Jul 9, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Luke 3
The Genealogy of Jesus Christ

23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was
supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli,

AnandaHya · Jul 9, 2011

sorry but the count is 40 according to Matthew....

Matthew 1

The Genealogy of Jesus Christ

1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:
2 Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. 3 Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. 4 Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. 5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6 and Jesse begot David the king.

David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife[a] of Uriah. 7 Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa. 8 Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. 9 Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. 10 Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon,[c] and Amon begot Josiah. 11 Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon.
12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 13 Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. 16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.
17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

AnandaHya · Jul 9, 2011

why is Mary 65? and joseph 64? i thought it was a count of Generations?

yet Ruth and Boaz are 30?

77 generations

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