Attack of the Judaizers

Keren · Jan 16, 2014

I am not trying to convince you of anything. At least I did not think I was. What do you want to argue with me for? I asked for you to show me love. Not Law.
Do you want me to convince you that I am not perfect? I do not need scripture for that. Or that I desire to be with Christ and His people? How can I convince you of that using scripture.
Does my opinion count for anything? What if my concerns are about love? Can I command you to be kind to me and love me, or will this be something you want to do. I am not convinced yet, but I will believe the best about you and try to love you even if I fail. If I fail to love you, that is sin, isn't it.

Keren · Jan 16, 2014

john832 said:

But if you do not love the others you are writing to, why do claim you are obeying God?

Hizikyah · Jan 16, 2014

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Elin · Jan 16, 2014

JaumeJ said:

That is a false understanding of the text.

God does not give bad laws, nor anything else that is bad.

This has been explained before.

Would you like it reviewed again?

lookuptoseeJesus · Jan 16, 2014

I never hope to ever convert a used car salesman.

Try it sometime.
go to the used car lot
tell AL at Al's used cars
that over on 4th street Juniors car sales has better used cars and try and convince him to go buy one there...
You are never going to do it.
ever
I don't bother.
but when I am walking by
and I see a used car salesman talking to a old lady about his very best car
a volkswamgen first year Touareg and I see transmission fluid on the ground and an oil puddle and he is telling her that it is the best car on the lot
I have to draw attention to the leaks that will cost more to fix than the car is worth.
sorry

this will not convert the used car salesmen
but it may save a lady from getting stuck for her savings...

If a used car salesman teachs that
By praying to God to help me to keep his law , that I will go to hell...
you are confused.

and then claiming thatthe person who walks into church once a week speaks in tongues, ignores the law and goes home and plays warcraft and goes to movies with girlfireinds and tells off color jokes is going to heaven..
well
you have a transmission leak on your volkswagon Touareg religion...
wake up...

pastors are supposed to have JOBS
like Paul they are to work and support themselves!
they are not to live off of tithes and offerings and play on internet chat all week and collect money
sorry.
Read your bible and pray, and you will see
calling people Judaizers for being obedient is going to be something you wished you had not done.

Grandpa · Jan 16, 2014

john832 said:

Just start reading Romans and you'll see her "opinion" is scripture.

Romans 3:21-26
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The righteousness of God without the law is manifested. How can that possibly be? Is it a mis-print? Is Paul against God?

I am a witness that it is not a mis-print and Paul is not against God.

The bible says that some that are against the gospel cannot be convinced but that their eyes are shut and their ears are closed.

2 Corinthians 3:14-18

[SUP]14 [/SUP]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

There is a solution to stop being a Judaizer and to begin to understand Grace and the Gospel. You can pray to the Lord according to Ephesians 1

[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Its not my arguments or the scripture that I provide that can convince you. The Lord Jesus is the one that convinces. He is the One who blesses us with Wisdom and Knowledge and all manner of blessings by which we are blessed. He is the foundation of our faith. Our first and last place we go for all our provision. This is all scriptural too. I can go get the verses if you want.

Theres been 77 pages so I suppose this won't be the end...

lookuptoseeJesus · Jan 16, 2014

twisting again
read the rest

here is the final verse in romans

Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

better read your bible to see how that can be...

Transmission leaks can be fixed

lookuptoseeJesus · Jan 16, 2014

See he was talking about the sacrificial system

go look it up
and you are twisting again

twisting in the wind
dead faith

lookuptoseeJesus · Jan 16, 2014

Wake up man!
there were two laws

read romans
wake up
read romans

I know it is nice to have a big church without working but God does not want you to do that anymore.

he wants you to teach the truth

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

which side you going to be on Grandpa?

tell me now

should I keep the law

or should I break it

tell me straight

lookuptoseeJesus · Jan 16, 2014

I will tell you straight

we need to keep the law by grace (the power of God) in us

keeping the law without grace is what the jews did
dont work
we need to keep it by grace

I tell you straight

don't go off and die on us...
Read the bible

Grandpa · Jan 16, 2014

lookuptoseeJesus said:

People aren't called Judaizers for being obedient. They are called Judaizers for pointing people to the Law and not to the Lord Jesus.

Its not your obedience that will save you. It is the Lord Jesus obedience that has saved all of us who will be saved.

Its like you are telling the whole world to move that mountain and when certain people tell you that they can't do it you say they have to at least try. Its better to have faith in the One who can move that mountain, Like Faithful Abraham, than try to do it ourselves.

The Lord Jesus has said without me you can do nothing. We rely on His Grace and His Love and Mercy. Our obedience is a sad sack of filth compared to what He has already done for us.

Love You
Grandpa

lookuptoseeJesus · Jan 16, 2014

What is the whole Bible about?
The christian fight to stay faithful to the bible
faithful from sinning
true
it is a fight of faith and belief
a fight to keep from temptation

Jesus said for us to sin

Let us not be led into temptaion
temptation is tryig to get you to sin

sin is the transgressions of the law (the 10 commandment law not the sheep killing law)

the sheep killing law is removed said Paul in Romans
and at the last part in Romans he says

Yes the law of sheep is done away
but REMEMBER TO KEEP THE LAW OF TEN COMMANDMENTS!

read the bible
believe the bible
Teach the Bible
God is with you when you search for the truth

Elin · Jan 16, 2014

JaumeJ said:

And who decides which are bad, and which are not?

False. . .and already explained as false.

OK. . .that explains a lot.

God's truth is not based on what "seems correct" to the mind of man,
it is based on what he states, understood in the light of the whole counsel of God.

Your false premise above, whose purpose is to give an alternate explanation
to the NT revelation by the Son (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers,
that the laws have been set aside (Heb 7:12, 18-19),
now produces contra-Biblical conclusions.

Those laws are no longer in effect, not because they are bad, but because
the Mosaic law was set aside (Heb 7:12, 18-19),
when the priesthood on which the law was based (Heb 7:11) was changed (Heb 7:12),
making the Sinaitic (old) covenant, which was based on the law, obsolete (Heb 8:13).

That is the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers, with which you must reckon.

Hizikyah · Jan 16, 2014

Is the Messiah a "Judaizer?"

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 ἀνομία anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed ladultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."

Elin · Jan 16, 2014

Rockbysea said:

Lawlessness means one is not Christ-like. The goats on the left of Christ practiced lawlessness, which means the sheep on the right of Christ were practicing the opposite…they were being lawful. Christ told the sheep on His right why they were saved (lawful) and it was because of their kind treatment towards His brethren. It was not because they observed the Sabbath laws or other old covenant observances. He gave the same example of what it means to be lawful in the parable of the Good Samaritan.

And he stated it clearly in Mt 22:37-39, as does Paul in Ro 13:10; Gal 5:6.

Elin · Jan 16, 2014

john832 said:

Assertions without demonstration are without merit.

BradC · Jan 16, 2014

Keren said:

In light of what you have communicated in this post think of what this means in the following verses.

Gal 5:22,23

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
There is no law that we can accuse against the fruit of the Spirit

Romans 4:15-17

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rom 5:12,13

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

What this means is that Christ is the end of the law of righteousness to everyone that believes (Rom 10:4) because through the cross the Father was able to crucify sin (that the law exposed and made exceedingly sinful Rom 7:11-13) making reconciliation possible for the world and He did this through His Son by not imputing their trespasses unto them. You can't impute sin to anyone whose sin had been put away and reconciliation can't take place until sin is put away first. So, we don't need the law to point out sin because Christ came and put sin away. There was no other reason for him to come and shed His blood unless it was to atone for all sin and once that was done there was no need for the law to point sin out because God could no longer impute sin in the same way he could not impute it where there was no law.

Christ fulfilled the law so that He could put away sin, so that the world could freely come to the Father through him knowing that the Father could no longer impute any sin unto them. You see the sin of the world was imputed to the Son and was crucified and put away forever so that the world could freely come to God by faith (not repentance) through the Son with absolutely no sin being imputed. All the punishment for all the sin of the world, including the wages of sin which was death, took place on the body of the Jesus Christ on that cross.

john832 · Jan 16, 2014

Elin said:

Spoken like an expert.

Grandpa · Jan 16, 2014

lookuptoseeJesus said:

You can't keep the Law. You only have one Choice, one Decision.

You must appeal to His Mercy and Grace and Provision. That is what faith does. That is the difference between the publican and the pharisee.

I haven't made it to the point where I can say "Thanks for the boost Lord, now I can be perfectly obedient". I'm constantly like the publican where I have to say "Sorry Lord, please have mercy on me, a poor sinner".

Only the Perfectly Spiritual Man can be obedient to the Law. So your answer is, sure you should keep the Law. But its not kept by your power. Its kept by faith in His Work that He's already done. That is a mystery that you have to search for yourself.

We will overcome by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. By what He has already Provided for us and our witness of what He has done in our lives.

Obedience is a gift. Salvation is a gift. His Presence is a gift. We don't earn it. We can't earn it. We just have to be bold enough to ask for it.

People try to tell you what the gospel is. Its good news.

But if righteousness or salvation were by the Law, or our own obedience, then there would have been no reason for the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. We would just pull ourselves out of the Pit, we would be perfect according to the Law and we would demand God let us in through the gates of Heaven because of our own righteousness. There is one way and our obedience to the law doesn't cut it.

john832 · Jan 16, 2014

Elin said:

Yep and you continually leave out the fact that Mat 27:37-39 is composed of quotes from Deut 6 & 10 and Lev 19. What is the subject matter of those sources?

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Now what are the verses just before and just after this?

Deu 6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
Deu 6:2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
Deu 6:3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deu 6:9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

Now what Commandments, statutes and judgments are God talking about?

What came just prior to Deut 6:1?

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Deu 5:30 Go say to them, Get you into your tents again.
Deu 5:31 But as for thee, stand thou here by me, and I will speak unto thee all the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which thou shalt teach them, that they may do them in the land which I give them to possess it.
Deu 5:32 Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
Deu 5:33 Ye shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.

And the subject matter is the Ten Commandments and the statutes and judgments.

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

And what is the context?

Lev 19:10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.
Lev 19:11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
Lev 19:12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
Lev 19:13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
Lev 19:14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
Lev 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Lev 19:16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Lev 19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.
Lev 19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.

The statutes. Yet you lift this out of context and tell us these Commandments, statutes and judgments are done away.

Attack of the Judaizers

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