More Scriptural proof of a Pre-trib. Rapture.

[ChosenbyHim]

It is becoming more apparent to me and I am sure others, that one of the reasons why the post-tribbers are persistent in trying to prove that somehow the Christians (members of Christ's body) will somehow go through the Great tribulation is because they feel that we who believe the Pre-trib. Rapture Doctrine are, (in their minds) just trying to avoid persecution. But when one studies the word of God and sees what it says and teaches about the time of Jacob's trouble, it will become clear that the time of Jacob's trouble is not about persecution, at least not generally.

But that the time of Jacob's trouble is really about the wrath of the Lamb. It is God's wrath that will be poured upon the earth during the time of Jacob's trouble (the 7 year tribulation period).


Here is Scripture that testifies to this fact:



Revelation 6:16-17

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



Revelation 11:18

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.




Revelation 15:1

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

15 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.




Revelation 15:7

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.




Revelation 16:1

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

16 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.





Revelation 16:15-21

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.




Throughout the book of Revelation; we see the wrath of God being mentioned. It should be clear to any student of the Bible that the time of Jacob's trouble is mainly about the wrath of God.


And notice that the verse first mention of wrath in the book of Revelation, it is referring to the wrath of the Lamb. Who is the Lamb? It is the Lord Jesus Christ.


It is the wrath of the Lord Jesus Christ that causes the wicked to cry out to the mountains and rocks for them to fall on them and to hide them from the wrath of the Lamb (Rev. 6:16-17).


And to think that there are Christians out there who seriously think that God would pour out His wrath upon the Body of His own Son? It makes no sense.


Why would God pour out His wrath upon the Body of Christ?


The Bible several times clearly says that we (born again Christians) have been delivered and saved from the wrath to come:


Romans 5:9

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.




1 Thessalonians 1:9-10

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.





1 Thessalonians 5:9-11

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.




When the Scriptures declare that we have been delivered from the wrath to come, I believe there is a dual application for us.

IN that it is not only teaching us that we have been delivered from the wrath of God in the Lake of Fire, but also from the wrath of God in the time of Jacob's trouble (7 year tribulation).


1 Thessalonians 5:9 clearly tells us that we are not appointed to wrath. The context being God's wrath. And again, while it is referring to the wrath of God in Hell and the Lake of Fire, it is also referring to the wrath of the Lamb in the time of Jacob's trouble (Daniel's 70th week).


This should be very clear folks. Each time the Bible says that we have been delieverd and saved from wrath, the context is always the wrath of God.


And not the wrath of men. In this life, we will experience the wrath of men, and also the wrath of Satan. After all; at this present time, Satan is the prince of the power of the air (Eph. 2:2) and he is the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4). Furthermore, the perseuction which the Christian martrys have faced down through the centuries from the Papacy and Roman catholic church (the mother of harlots/whore of Babylon) was a result of both the wrath of Satan and also the wrath of men (evil, wicked men controlled by Satan at his will).


I have shared this video teaching before, but it is very important to share it again, especially in this post because it further shows the truth of what I just shared:


[video=youtube;nXZU0OlXAQQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXZU0OlXAQQ[/video]

Published on May 13, 2012
http://www.eleventhhournews.com

The Church of Jesus Christ faces persecution and that INCLUDES the American Churches.

This video will clarify that fact that while the Pre-Tribulation Rapture guarantees that God will not pour out His wrath on believers, the Pre-Trib Rapture does NOT have anything, at all, to do with persecution that has taken place in the lives of believers since 30 AD and right up until this present day.

http://www.kjvbiblebelievers.com


[HR][/HR]
So for those who are still struggling to believe the Bible Doctrine of the Pre-trib. Rapture, one of the main thigns you must understand is that the Great tribulation is not about persecution, but that it is mainly about the wrath of God through a series of seven vial, seven trumpet, and seven seal judgments.

And collectively, all 21 of these Judgments are from God.

God said in His word that He saved and delivered us from the wrath to come. He delivered us from His wrath (Rom. 5:9, 1 Thess. 1:10).


And so for those who continue to persist in trying to convince the Body of Christ that they are going to have to go through the time of Jacob's trouble (7 year tribulation) after reading this and seeing what the Scriptures clearly say on this matter, those same people are basically calling God a liar. And that is very serious. I believe that God takes that very seriously.


Therefore; for those of you who are still denying the Bible Doctrine of the Pre-trib. Rapture and who have been mocking it, understand that if you do not repent of your error, and continue in teaching the false doctrine that somehow the Body of Christ will have to go through the 7 year tribulation period, well then be assured of this one thing, you will answer to God for it. You will give account of yourself.

 

[Reformedjason]

Good stuff chosenbyhim. I once thought a post trib must be the truth but on further study I believe that the saints that are here during the time of the trib are the remnant of israel that comes to christ after the rapture.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Good stuff chosenbyhim. I once thought a post trib must be the truth but on further study I believe that the saints that are here during the time of the trib are the remnant of israel that comes to christ after the rapture.

Thank you Jason. I appreciate that.


Indeed, there will be a remnant that makes it out of the time of Jacob's trouble, and that makes it into the Millennial Kingdom at Christ's Second Advent.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Thank you Jason. I appreciate that.


Indeed, there will be a remnant that makes it out of the time of Jacob's trouble, and that makes it into the Millennial Kingdom at Christ's Second Advent.

Clearly, the events of Matthew 24 and the being 'caught up' of 1 Thess. 4 are referring to different events.

Blessings.

 

[Heartsearcher]

Clearly, the events of Matthew 24 and the being 'caught up' of 1 Thess. 4 are referring to different events.

Blessings.

not exactly, jesus explains all the things to happen before he returns and in this he speaks of ppl being taken while the other left. the scary part is most of mathew 24 has already happened

 

[faroukfarouk]

not exactly, jesus explains all the things to happen before he returns and in this he speaks of ppl being taken while the other left. the scary part is most of mathew 24 has already happened

I don't agree, because there is nothing to happen before the coming of the Lord Jesus for His church (1 Thess. 4) can take place. In 1 Thess. 4 it is question of the church; in Matthew 24 it is tribulation saints.

 

[Heartsearcher]

I don't agree, because there is nothing to happen before the coming of the Lord Jesus for His church (1 Thess. 4) can take place. In 1 Thess. 4 it is question of the church; in Matthew 24 it is tribulation saints.

but mathew 24 is jesus responce when his deciples came and asked him what would be the sign of his return

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Clearly, the events of Matthew 24 and the being 'caught up' of 1 Thess. 4 are referring to different events.

Blessings.

Yes they are. Matthew 24 is doctrinally aimed at Jews in the time of Jacob's trouble.

And 1 Thess. 4 is doctrinally aimed at Christians in the Church Age.

Also, if you read and study Matthew 24:3-31, the context of that passage of Scripture is clearly about Judgment.

But the context of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is clearly about salvation and deliverance. Even the very first chapter of 1 Thessalonians starts and begins with a statement of deliverance for the saints of God from the very wrath to come (See 1 Thess. 1:10).


So indeed Farouk, Matthew 24:3-31 and 1 Thess. 4:13-18 are definitely two entirely different events. And thank you for pointing that out.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes they are. Matthew 24 is doctrinally aimed at Jews in the time of Jacob's trouble.

And 1 Thess. 4 is doctrinally aimed at Christians in the Church Age.

Also, if you read and study Matthew 24:3-31, the context of that passage of Scripture is clearly about Judgment.

But the context of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is clearly about salvation and deliverance. Even the very first chapter of 1 Thessalonians starts and begins with a statement of deliverance for the saints of God from the very wrath to come (See 1 Thess. 1:10).


So indeed Farouk, Matthew 24:3-31 and 1 Thess. 4:13-18 are definitely two entirely different events. And thank you for pointing that out.

YW.

I find the writings of Darby, Scofield and others helpful when it comes to making dispensational distinctions.

Blessings.

 

[Brucenorm]

Pretrib Rapture Pride

by Bruce Rockwell

Pretrib rapture promoters like Thomas Ice give the impression they know more than the early Church Fathers, the Reformers, the greatest Greek New Testament scholars including those who produced the KJV Bible, the founders of their favorite Bible schools, and even their own mentors!
Ice's mentor, Dallas Sem. president John Walvoord, couldn't find anyone holding to pretrib before 1830 - and Walvoord called John Darby and his Brethren followers "the early pretribulationists" (RQ, pp. 160-62). Ice belittles Walvoord and claims that several pre-1830 persons, including "Pseudo-Ephraem" and a "Rev. Morgan Edwards," taught a pretrib rapture. Even though the first one viewed Antichrist's arrival as the only "imminent" event, Ice (and Grant Jeffrey) audaciously claim he expected an "imminent" pretrib rapture! And Ice (and John Bray) have covered up Edwards' historicism which made a pretrib rapture impossible! Google historian Dave MacPherson's "Deceiving and Being Deceived" for documentation on these and similar historical distortions.
The same pretrib defenders, when combing ancient books, deviously read "pretrib" into phrases like "before Armageddon," "before the final conflagration," and "escape all these things"!
BTW, the KJV translators' other writings found in London's famed British Library (where MacPherson has researched) don't have even a hint of pretrib rapturism. Is it possible that Ice etc. have found pretrib "proof" in the KJV that its translators never found?
Pretrib merchandisers like Ice claim that nothing is better pretrib proof than Rev. 3:10. They also cover up "Famous Rapture Watchers" (on Google) which shows how the greatest Greek NT scholars of all time interpreted it.
Pretrib didn't flourish in America much before the 1909 Scofield Bible which has pretribby "explanatory notes" in its margins. Not seen in the margins was jailed forger Scofield's criminal record throughout his life that David Lutzweiler has documented in his recent book "The Praise of Folly" which is available online.
Biola University's doctrinal statement says Christ's return is "premillennial" and "before the Tribulation." Although universities stand for "academic freedom," Biola has added these narrow, restrictive phrases - non-essentials the founders purposely didn't include in their original doctrinal statement when Biola was just a small Bible institute! And other Christian schools have also belittled their founders.
Ice, BTW, has a "Ph.D" issued by a tiny Texas school that wasn't authorized to issue degrees! Ice now says that he's working on another "Ph.D" via the University of Wales in Britain. For light on the degrees of Ice's scholarliness, Google "Bogus degree scandal prompts calls to wind up University of Wales," "Thomas Ice (Bloopers)," "be careful in polemics - Peripatetic Learning," "Walvoord Melts Ice," and "Thomas Ice (Hired Gun)."
Other fascinating Google articles include "The Unoriginal John Darby," "X-raying Margaret," "Edward Irving is Unnerving," "Pretrib Rapture Politics," "Pretrib Rapture Secrets," "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," "Pretrib Hypocrisy," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," and "Roots of Warlike Christian Zionism" - most from the author of "The Rapture Plot," the most accurate documentation on pretrib rapture history.
Can anyone guess who the last proud pretrib rapture holdout will be?
(Postscript: For another jolt or two Google "The Background Obama Can't Cover Up.")

 

[Elin]

It is becoming more apparent to me and I am sure others, that one of the reasons why the
post-tribbers are persistent in trying to prove that somehow the Christians (members of Christ's body) will somehow go through the Great tribulation is because they feel that we who believe the Pre-trib. Rapture Doctrine are, (in their minds) just trying to avoid persecution.

Is there a NT verse that specifically locates the rapture before the tribulation?

I can't find one.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Is there a NT verse that specifically locates the rapture before the tribulation?

I can't find one.

Elin, there is no verse in the New Testament which teaches that the Body of Christ will have to go through the time of Jacob's trouble. Not one.

 

[jb]

Elin, there is no verse in the New Testament which teaches that the Body of Christ will have to go through the time of Jacob's trouble. Not one.

Try reading 2Thess 2v1-4:

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."

The Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him happens on the SAME day, "that DAY will not come"

Paul then goes on to say what MUST happen before "that DAY" comes, he says that Antichrist MUST first sit in the Temple in Jerusalem claiming that he is God, so Paul is referring to the same events that the Lord Jesus is referring to in Matt 24v15-31!

In other words a POST-TRIBULATION Advent and Rapture!

Also see Rev 7v9,10,14 "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying,"Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"...And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me,"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (with Rev 1v5)

There is NO secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture taught anywhere in Sripture, Christ says that when He comes, He will come in great splendour and glory, every eye will see Him, He also says that it is ONLY false prophets and teachers who teach a "secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture." Matt 24v23,26,27,29-31, Titus 2v13, Rev 1v7

I suggest you who teach a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture bear in mind what the Lord Jesus says in Rev 22v18,19:

"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

By teaching such an evil doctrine (which will lead to the backsliding and apostasy of those who believe it), the Lord Jesus WILL require it off you!

 

[faroukfarouk]

There is no verse in the NT which teaches airplanes or penicillin. Not one.

Does that prove anything?

NT truth is not based on what is not in the NT, but what is in the NT.

You have not answered by question: is there a verse in the NT which specifically states a rapture before the tribulation.

We have no NT basis for believing it if there is not.

The question is: who does the great tribulation involve? and is there a distinction between the tribulation principle and the great tribulation? The event in Matthew 24 is a unique time.

 

[Elin]

Elin, there is no verse in the New Testament which teaches that the Body of Christ will have to go through the time of Jacob's trouble. Not one.

There is no verse in the NT which teaches airplanes or penicillin. Not one.

Does that prove anything?

NT truth is not based on what is not in the NT, but on what is in the NT.

You have not answered my question: is there a verse in the NT which specifically states a rapture before the tribulation?

We have no NT basis for believing a pre-trib rapture if it is not stated in the NT.

There is not one NT truth which we believe that is not found in the NT.

And I find a compelling and strong Biblical case against it here
and in posts #327, 329, 331, and 332 following it.

 

[faroukfarouk]

There is no verse in the NT which teaches airplanes or penicillin. Not one.

Does that prove anything?

NT truth is not based on what is not in the NT, but on what is in the NT.

You have not answered my question: is there a verse in the NT which specifically states a rapture before the tribulation?

We have no NT basis for believing a pre-trib rapture if it is not stated in the NT.

There is not one NT truth which we believe that is not found in the NT.

And I find a compelling and strong Biblical case against it here
and in posts #327, 329, 331, and 332 following it.

Who does the Rapture involve? Israel? no, the church (1 Thess. 4).

Who does the great tribulation involve, in terms of the saints that go through it? the church? no. The church is a heavenly people; Israel is an earthly people, and what the Old Testament calls the day of the Lord is linked with Israel and not the church. The church is not in the Old Testament. Hence also the distinction between tribulation saints in Matthew and the church being caught up.

Blessings.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Try reading 2Thess 2v1-4:

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."

The Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him happens on the SAME day, "that DAY will not come"

Paul then goes on to say what MUST happen before "that DAY" comes, he says that Antichrist MUST first sit in the Temple in Jerusalem claiming that he is God, so Paul is referring to the same events that the Lord Jesus is referring to in Matt 24v15-31!

Paul is not referring to the same event here. Our gathering together unto the Lord is the Rapture while the coming of our Lord is the Second Coming. The Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ comes after the Rapture.



2 Thessalonians 2:1-5

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (Second Advent), and by our gathering together unto him (TheRapture), [SUP]2 [/SUP]that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?


The Day of Christ that is referenced in the passage above is not the Rapture. But it is the time of Jacob's trouble. It is the Day of the wrath of the Lamb (Rev. 6:16). And it also is the consumation of that day which is the Second Advent of the Lord Jesus Christ when He comes in the glory of His Father and of the holy angels (Matt. 16:27 & Mk. 8:38).

In other words a POST-TRIBULATION Advent and Rapture!

Also see Rev 7v9,10,14 "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying,"Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"...And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me,"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (with Rev 1v5)!

Revelation 7:9-14

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]9 [/SUP]After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; [SUP]10 [/SUP]and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, [SUP]12 [/SUP]saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? [SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


JB, this passage in Revelation 7:9-14 is specifically talking about Tribulation saints. It is not talking about born again Christians. You need to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Tim. 2:15).

Today, every Christian is saved by grace through faith WITHOUT WORKS (Eph. 2:8-10).

Tribulation saints will need works to secure their salvation in the time of Jacob's trouble (Jas. 2:14-26, Rev. 14:9-12).

Furthermore, today, we (Christians) do not do any of the washing. All the washing is done by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ:


Revelation 1:4-7

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; [SUP]5 [/SUP]and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


You see JB, again, it is the Lord Jesus Christ who washes us from our sins in His own blood. And we do not do any of the washing. Now why is that? Well because salvation today in the Church Age is simply by Grace through Faith. No works are needed in this Dispensation for a Christian to secure his salvation. Because every Christian is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (Eph 1:13). Now we as Christians should do good works because we are saved. But the works we do today are not to keep us saved.

And again though, in the time of Jacob's trouble, the means of salvation will be different. Works will be involved along with Faith for a tribulation saint, since he will need to endure unto the end to inherit the Millennial Kingdom (Matt. 24:13, 25:31-46, Mk. 13:13).

So the multitude mentioned in Revelation 7:9-14 is not the Body of Christ. But they are tribulation saints which came out of great tribulation and have washed (their effort being involved to secure salvation) their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (Rev. 7:14).


The Body of Christ is mentioned in Revelation 5:9-12:



Revelation 5:9-12

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; [SUP]10 [/SUP]and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; [SUP]12 [/SUP]saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.


You have to rightly dividing the word of truth. If you are not familiar with Dispensational truth that is in the Scriptures, then I strongly recommend that you study it.

There is NO secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture taught anywhere in Sripture, Christ says that when He comes, He will come in great splendour and glory, every eye will see Him, He also says that it is ONLY false prophets and teachers who teach a "secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture." Matt 24v23,26,27,29-31, Titus 2v13, Rev 1v7

I suggest you who teach a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture bear in mind what the Lord Jesus says in Rev 22v18,19:

"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

By teaching such an evil doctrine (which will lead to the backsliding and apostasy of those who believe it), the Lord Jesus WILL require it off you!

JB, the King James Holy Bible does teach a pre-tribulation rapture of the Body of Christ.

Revelation 1:7 is about the Second Coming of Jesus Christ where Christ will physically return to this Earth to judge the Nations.

At the Rapture, only we (born again saints) will see Him. Also, at the Rapture, Jesus comes in the clouds and we meet Him in the air ( 1 Thess. 4:17).

At the Second Coming, the Lord Jesus Christ returns to the Earth and we come with Him (Rev. 19:14).

 

[ChosenbyHim]

There is no verse in the NT which teaches airplanes or penicillin. Not one.

Does that prove anything?

NT truth is not based on what is not in the NT, but on what is in the NT.

You have not answered my question: is there a verse in the NT which specifically states a rapture before the tribulation?

By comparing Scripture with Scripture and by rightly dividing it, it is clear that the Holy Bible does teach a pre-trib. Rapture of the Body of Christ.

Furthermore, I already showed in my original post in this thread that the Body of Christ is not appointed to wrath. We are not appointed to the wrath of the Lamb.

And the time of Jacob's trouble is mainly about the wrath of the Lamb. It is the Day of the LORD's wrath. And this Day is mentioned a lot in the Old Testament (Isa. 2:12, 13:9; Jer. 46:10, Eze. 13:5, Joel 2:1, 3:14; Amos 5:18-20; Oba. 1:15, Zeph. 1:7, 1:14; Zech. 14:1; Mal. 4:5).


You see Elin, the Day of the LORD (time of Jacob's trouble and Second Coming) is not a mystery. It is mentioned many times in the Old Testament and also the New Testament.

The Rapture of the Body of Christ; on the other hand, is a mystery. Which was first revealed directly to the apostle Paul by the Lord Jesus Christ.

We have no NT basis for believing a pre-trib rapture if it is not stated in the NT.

There is not one NT truth which we believe that is not found in the NT.

We do have a basis for believing in a Pre-trib. Rapture. A very strong basis Elin.

The teaching of the Pre-Trib. Rapture is found in the Holy Scriptures.

Paul says that we shall judge the world (1 Cor. 6:2).

Now if we will have a part in judging the world at the Second Advent, well, wouldn't it make sense that we (Christians) would have to be judged first?

What takes place after the Rapture of the Body of Christ?

The Judgement Seat of Christ.

 

[Jackson123]

Good stuff chosenbyhim. I once thought a post trib must be the truth but on further study I believe that the saints that are here during the time of the trib are the remnant of israel that comes to christ after the rapture.

I believe Jacob refer to Jew, and spiritual Jew is Christian.

 

[faroukfarouk]

By comparing Scripture with Scripture and by rightly dividing it, it is clear that the Holy Bible does teach a pre-trib. Rapture of the Body of Christ.

Furthermore, I already showed in my original post in this thread that the Body of Christ is not appointed to wrath. We are not appointed to the wrath of the Lamb.

And the time of Jacob's trouble is mainly about the wrath of the Lamb. It is the Day of the LORD's wrath. And this Day is mentioned a lot in the Old Testament (Isa. 2:12, 13:9; Jer. 46:10, Eze. 13:5, Joel 2:1, 3:14; Amos 5:18-20; Oba. 1:15, Zeph. 1:7, 1:14; Zech. 14:1; Mal. 4:5).


You see Elin, the Day of the LORD (time of Jacob's trouble and Second Coming) is not a mystery. It is mentioned many times in the Old Testament and also the New Testament.

The Rapture of the Body of Christ; on the other hand, is a mystery. Which was first revealed directly to the apostle Paul by the Lord Jesus Christ.






We do have a basis for believing in a Pre-trib. Rapture. A very strong basis Elin.

The teaching of the Pre-Trib. Rapture is found in the Holy Scriptures.

Paul says that we shall judge the world (1 Cor. 6:2).

Now if we will have a part in judging the world at the Second Advent, well, wouldn't it make sense that we (Christians) would have to be judged first?

What takes place after the Rapture of the Body of Christ?

The Judgement Seat of Christ.

Yes, broadly speaking, I would see things in this way.

The day of the Lord is an Old Testament referenced event, carried forward to a time after the church has gone from the earth.

Blessings.