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K
I suspect the OP was wanting to disparage anything a SDA had to say, based on his other remarks about, Sabbath day
observance.
I have a few questions, if you don't mind.
Recently I have began keeping Sabbath, and Feasts. I have faith in Messiah, that He died for our sin, and in studying the Word, feel strongly I should be keeping Sabbath and the Feasts.
Do you keep the Feasts also?
observance.
I have a few questions, if you don't mind.
Recently I have began keeping Sabbath, and Feasts. I have faith in Messiah, that He died for our sin, and in studying the Word, feel strongly I should be keeping Sabbath and the Feasts.
Do you keep the Feasts also?
I just listen a testimony from Indonesian student. He was carnal catholic pursue his high education to Australia.
In his free time as student he attend bible study group, apparently held by Adventist.
He converted and he mention that his new religion doesn't believe in eternal hell.
Either go to heaven or perish, no eternal hell.
In his free time as student he attend bible study group, apparently held by Adventist.
He converted and he mention that his new religion doesn't believe in eternal hell.
Either go to heaven or perish, no eternal hell.
K
I've heard others on cc say that too. Not sure what denomination..they said the lake of fire was for satan and his demons and not people. I can't say I know whether people would burn up and be done, or if their new bodies would remain forever in that place....I don't really want to know, I'd rather concentrate on staying out!!
G
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison [SUP]8 [/SUP]and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.[SUP]9 [/SUP]They marched across the breadth of the earth and surroundedthe camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur,where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelations 20:7-10)
While the term for ever and ever is used here to describe the torment in the lake of fire, we may ask the question if this is a literal or figurative description. Revelation 20:14 says that the lake of fire is the second death. Continuing the reading to chapter 21, we read: Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[SUP][a][/SUP] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bridebeautifully dressed for her husband. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[SUP][b][/SUP] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
"There will be no more death" means that the lake of fire or the second death will come to an end. The first death is the death of the body due to weakness, disease or accident. The second death is the punishment due to sin. It includes the devil, his angels, and those people who have been judged. The restoration of the New Earth will be the end of this lake of fire.
While the term for ever and ever is used here to describe the torment in the lake of fire, we may ask the question if this is a literal or figurative description. Revelation 20:14 says that the lake of fire is the second death. Continuing the reading to chapter 21, we read: Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[SUP][a][/SUP] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bridebeautifully dressed for her husband. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[SUP][b][/SUP] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
"There will be no more death" means that the lake of fire or the second death will come to an end. The first death is the death of the body due to weakness, disease or accident. The second death is the punishment due to sin. It includes the devil, his angels, and those people who have been judged. The restoration of the New Earth will be the end of this lake of fire.
This is from wikipedia: basically the wicked destroy after millennium. so no eternal hell.
[h=4]Hell and the state of the dead[edit][/h]See also: Annihilationism#Seventh-day Adventist Church, Intermediate state, and Hell in Christian beliefs
Seventh-day Adventists believe that death is a state of unconscious sleep until the resurrection. They base this belief on biblical texts such asEcclesiastes 9:5 which states "the dead know nothing", and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 which contains a description of the dead being raised from the grave at the second coming. These verses, it is argued, indicate that death is only a period or form of slumber.
Adventists teach that the resurrection of the righteous will take place at the second coming of Jesus, while the resurrection of the wicked will occur after the millennium of Revelation 20. They reject the traditional doctrine of hell as a state of everlasting conscious torment, believing instead that the wicked will be permanently destroyed after the millennium. The theological term for this teaching is Annihilationism.
The Adventist views about death and hell reflect an underlying belief in: (a) conditional immortality (or conditionalism), as opposed to theimmortality of the soul; and (b) the holistic (or monistic) Christian anthropology or nature of human beings, as opposed to bipartite or tripartiteviews. Adventist education hence strives to be holistic in nature, involving not just the mind but all aspects of a person.
This belief in conditional immortality has been one of the doctrines used by critics (particularly in the past) to claim that the church is not a mainstream Christian denomination.[SUP][36][/SUP] However this view is becoming more mainstream within evangelicalism, as evidenced by the BritishEvangelical Alliance ACUTE report, which states the doctrine is a "significant minority evangelical view" which has "grown within evangelicalism in recent years".[SUP][37][/SUP] Evangelical theologian and conditionalist Clark Pinnock suggests Adventist Le Roy Edwin Froom's The Conditionalist Faith of our Fathers, 2 vols. as "a classic defense on conditionalism".[SUP][38][/SUP][SUP][/SUP]
[h=4]Hell and the state of the dead[edit][/h]See also: Annihilationism#Seventh-day Adventist Church, Intermediate state, and Hell in Christian beliefs
Seventh-day Adventists believe that death is a state of unconscious sleep until the resurrection. They base this belief on biblical texts such asEcclesiastes 9:5 which states "the dead know nothing", and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 which contains a description of the dead being raised from the grave at the second coming. These verses, it is argued, indicate that death is only a period or form of slumber.
Adventists teach that the resurrection of the righteous will take place at the second coming of Jesus, while the resurrection of the wicked will occur after the millennium of Revelation 20. They reject the traditional doctrine of hell as a state of everlasting conscious torment, believing instead that the wicked will be permanently destroyed after the millennium. The theological term for this teaching is Annihilationism.
The Adventist views about death and hell reflect an underlying belief in: (a) conditional immortality (or conditionalism), as opposed to theimmortality of the soul; and (b) the holistic (or monistic) Christian anthropology or nature of human beings, as opposed to bipartite or tripartiteviews. Adventist education hence strives to be holistic in nature, involving not just the mind but all aspects of a person.
This belief in conditional immortality has been one of the doctrines used by critics (particularly in the past) to claim that the church is not a mainstream Christian denomination.[SUP][36][/SUP] However this view is becoming more mainstream within evangelicalism, as evidenced by the BritishEvangelical Alliance ACUTE report, which states the doctrine is a "significant minority evangelical view" which has "grown within evangelicalism in recent years".[SUP][37][/SUP] Evangelical theologian and conditionalist Clark Pinnock suggests Adventist Le Roy Edwin Froom's The Conditionalist Faith of our Fathers, 2 vols. as "a classic defense on conditionalism".[SUP][38][/SUP][SUP][/SUP]
Brother Gamlet,
What is your take on for These verse
Revelation 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Jude 1:7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
What is your take on for These verse
Revelation 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Jude 1:7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
G
Before you decide on the interpretation of these verses, you must consider the picture presented by Revelation 20 and 21. After the lake of fire in Rev. 20, the New Earth is instituted in Rev. 21. So what happens to the lake of fire when in the New Earth there is no more death (Rev. 21:4). This leads to the conclusion that like fire when the material has been consumed, it dies out. And this picture is totally harmonious to the character of God. For how can a loving God punish forever. Also, this eternal punishment is not death. I'd rather believe that the eternal fire pertains to the results of the fire--that the dead will be dead forever. It may be said that it is a figurative description--something like a painting. The fires of Sodom and Gomorrah (Jude 1:7) are not literally eternal for they do not burn today.
L
well put. I disagree, but you made a respectable argument.
From my reading, I believe the literal interpretation lines up well with the whole of Scripture. The usage of 'eternal' and 'forever and ever' don't always paint the same picture. To me it seems that the 'there will be no more death' is not speaking to those already judged.
I suppose we'll only know the true answer when it presents itself on the 'Last Day'.
From my reading, I believe the literal interpretation lines up well with the whole of Scripture. The usage of 'eternal' and 'forever and ever' don't always paint the same picture. To me it seems that the 'there will be no more death' is not speaking to those already judged.
I suppose we'll only know the true answer when it presents itself on the 'Last Day'.
Brother Gamlet,
Your doctrine about hell is base of the assumption that the word for ever and ever mean temporary, the word eternal mean temporary.
When there is a verse in the bible that heaven is eternal then you interpreted as forever and ever.
Don't you think it is discrimination?
About Jude, the writer use Sodom and Gomorrah in this verse as analogy
Analogy not prove anything. Analogy is only tool to make easier for the reader to understand.
Jude 1:7Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of Jude 1:7.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
In my opinion this is an analogy. The people there doing fornication etc than God punish them. Is the punishment temporary?
We can't prove that they not being punish anymore. They body burn than die, but they soul is still in waiting for second punishment. And I am sure they soul will be punish in the eternal fire exactly like the verse above.
For example, Mr X is a rapist and found guilty in the court than Judge pronounce death sentence.
So Mr x was shot to death.
Do you believe that is the only punishment for Mr X only physical punishment that took 5 minute?,
Do you think a fire brimstone is the only punishment for people in Sodom? How about their soul?
Your doctrine about hell is base of the assumption that the word for ever and ever mean temporary, the word eternal mean temporary.
When there is a verse in the bible that heaven is eternal then you interpreted as forever and ever.
Don't you think it is discrimination?
About Jude, the writer use Sodom and Gomorrah in this verse as analogy
Analogy not prove anything. Analogy is only tool to make easier for the reader to understand.
Jude 1:7Viewing the King James Version. Click to switch to 1611 King James Version of Jude 1:7.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
In my opinion this is an analogy. The people there doing fornication etc than God punish them. Is the punishment temporary?
We can't prove that they not being punish anymore. They body burn than die, but they soul is still in waiting for second punishment. And I am sure they soul will be punish in the eternal fire exactly like the verse above.
For example, Mr X is a rapist and found guilty in the court than Judge pronounce death sentence.
So Mr x was shot to death.
Do you believe that is the only punishment for Mr X only physical punishment that took 5 minute?,
Do you think a fire brimstone is the only punishment for people in Sodom? How about their soul?
G
Here is another point of difference. I hold that the belief in a soul separate from the body is a result of the accretion of Greek dichotomy into Christian doctrine. Genesis 2:7 says, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
So, dust of the ground + breath of life = living soul. There is no room here for a spirit form that leaves the body at death. When there is no more breath in the body, the soul is dead.
So, hell only burns as long as there are bodies in it that need to be burned. When all the material has been burned, the fire dies. Thus, for me, hell cannot be eternal.
So, dust of the ground + breath of life = living soul. There is no room here for a spirit form that leaves the body at death. When there is no more breath in the body, the soul is dead.
So, hell only burns as long as there are bodies in it that need to be burned. When all the material has been burned, the fire dies. Thus, for me, hell cannot be eternal.