It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

Probably many of us are annoyed by threads being started with false statements, like OSAS is of satan. Then it is in our face all the time while we present scriptural proof how that if you are saved you are saved!

The reason why this denial is heresy is that it denies the very concept of salvation and that the Lord Jesus is our Savior. Those who take that route have distorted the meaning of salvation and savior. Such a denial is evidence that a man does not trust Christ as His Savior. But salvation is something we must have; we will not receive validation of our life's works.

To be sure, grace is an offense to the pride of man, since a corollary of grace (favor contrary to what we deserve) is the depravity of man. This explains why men despise grace, the idea that eternal life is a free gift to those who trust Christ as Savior. Men do not want to admit the depth of their depravity. But the idea that after judgment a man would be validated on the basis of his life's works and then do God a favor by entering Heaven, is a serious error. Man must have salvation, not validation of life. We must admit that our depravity is so profound that we must be saved by grace.

Salvation is not something one receives after an examination and judgment of works, salvation starts with a new birth and includes eternal life right now in this life. "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Rom 8:

For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them
he also justified: and whom he justified, them
he also glorified.


What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He Who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall He not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[2Thewaters]

When you study you need to read the whole bible.
the reason certain portions are no longer read or believed is because those with their own theology know those scriptures would blow their theories

Read the bible completely through once in prayer from Genesis to Revelation
and you will never again say once saved always saved.


Many will say LOR LORD have we not worshipped, taught, cast out demons in your name?
and Jesus said
Get away fropm me you sinners who refuse to change and follow me
(Workers of sin)

Clear as a bell in the bible all the old testmament stories tell us
if you do well you will be accepted
if you do evil you will be lost
adam, cain, Able, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph Caleb Joshua Gideon, Samson, SAUL DAVID Josiah Jeremiah Isaih hundreds of stories

the obedient are rewarded and the disobedient lost.
Revelation says

Once saved always saved will no save you if you take the mark of the Beast

you better find out what the
Markl of the Beast is
the number of the beast is
the name of the Beast is
and the image of the beast is

If you take them you WILL be thrown into the lake of fire no matter what you profess.

and once saved always saved gives you a sense of security, that you dont have to worry cause you are going through
well,
you are not if you disobey God.

 

[Cassian]

Probably many of us are annoyed by threads being started with false statements, like OSAS is of satan. Then it is in our face all the time while we present scriptural proof how that if you are saved you are saved!

The reason why this denial is heresy is that it denies the very concept of salvation and that the Lord Jesus is our Savior. Those who take that route have distorted the meaning of salvation and savior. Such a denial is evidence that a man does not trust Christ as His Savior. But salvation is something we must have; we will not receive validation of our life's works.

To be sure, grace is an offense to the pride of man, since a corollary of grace (favor contrary to what we deserve) is the depravity of man. This explains why men despise grace, the idea that eternal life is a free gift to those who trust Christ as Savior. Men do not want to admit the depth of their depravity. But the idea that after judgment a man would be validated on the basis of his life's works and then do God a favor by entering Heaven, is a serious error. Man must have salvation, not validation of life. We must admit that our depravity is so profound that we must be saved by grace.

Salvation is not something one receives after an examination and judgment of works, salvation starts with a new birth and includes eternal life right now in this life. "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Rom 8:

For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them
he also justified: and whom he justified, them
he also glorified.


What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He Who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall He not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Respective of what I understand this is another strawman.
You have also mischaracterized what scripture teaches regarding the difference between salvation from death and sin, and man's reponse through faith of attaining eternal life.


But since you claim it is a heresy, can you cite when it was declared a heresy? Who declared it a heresy?

 

[crossnote]

Probably many of us are annoyed by threads being started with false statements, like OSAS is of satan. Then it is in our face all the time while we present scriptural proof how that if you are saved you are saved!

The reason why this denial is heresy is that it denies the very concept of salvation and that the Lord Jesus is our Savior. Those who take that route have distorted the meaning of salvation and savior. Such a denial is evidence that a man does not trust Christ as His Savior. But salvation is something we must have; we will not receive validation of our life's works.

To be sure, grace is an offense to the pride of man, since a corollary of grace (favor contrary to what we deserve) is the depravity of man. This explains why men despise grace, the idea that eternal life is a free gift to those who trust Christ as Savior. Men do not want to admit the depth of their depravity. But the idea that after judgment a man would be validated on the basis of his life's works and then do God a favor by entering Heaven, is a serious error. Man must have salvation, not validation of life. We must admit that our depravity is so profound that we must be saved by grace.

Salvation is not something one receives after an examination and judgment of works, salvation starts with a new birth and includes eternal life right now in this life. "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Rom 8:

For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them
he also justified: and whom he justified, them
he also glorified.


What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He Who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall He not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Thanks another breath of fresh air.
I've noticed those who lay emphasis on 'my salvation' or 'your salvation' are missing the fact that from beginning to end it is 'the Lord's Salvation' for Salvation is of the Lord.
Another thing , too often many picture it a matter of us holding His hand rather than Him holding our hand...He doesn't let go.

 

[endtimes]

Was the Prodigal Son OSAS?
Looks like the son was DEAD. He only returned to become alive again, but had he not returned he would have stayed dead.


Luke 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luke 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luke 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luke 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.



Were the Ten Virgins OSAS?
All ten had lamps and oil, but were half of them eternally saved?

Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Matthew 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Matthew 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Matthew 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Matthew 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Matthew 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Matthew 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Matthew 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Matthew 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Matthew 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.



Were the Unprofitable Servant OSAS?
He was a servant, given the same as the others.


Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Matthew 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Matthew 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
Matthew 25:17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
Matthew 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Matthew 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Matthew 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Matthew 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Matthew 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Matthew 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Matthew 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
Matthew 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Matthew 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Matthew 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



Paul said:

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.



God bless!

 

[john832]

As to the thread title, I think it might be opposite.

 

[Atwood]

When you study you need to read the whole bible.
the reason certain portions are no longer read or believed is because those with their own theology know those scriptures would blow their theories

The Waters,

I began reading the Bible through from cover to cover many, many years ago. I have read it through times without counting; I have even edited my own version of the Bible. I usually mark one or more subjects in the Bible I read that year. One of the first topics I marked in pink was all the references to salvation in the Bible, including passages that those who disagree with me would mark. How many times have you read it through? Have you marked all the salvation texts? I have marked on the outer edge of that salvation Bible, "pray for illumination."

Salvation is just that; it is not an opportunity to get saved. John 3:16 "believes . . . everlasting life."

You say: "Many will say LOR LORD have we not worshipped, taught, cast out demons in your name?
and Jesus said
Get away fropm me you sinners who refuse to change and follow me
(Workers of sin)"

What does that prove except that at the judgment some would disagree with their damnation and make false claims? And Judas no doubt cast out demons as an apostle. So what? This says nothing about losing salvation.

As to "change," the change that saves is from not trusting Christ to trusting him, as those who deny OSAS need to do.

"Clear as a bell in the bible all the old testmament stories tell us
if you do well you will be accepted
if you do evil you will be lost
adam, cain, Able, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph Caleb Joshua Gideon, Samson, SAUL DAVID Josiah Jeremiah Isaih hundreds of stories" "the obedient are rewarded and the disobedient lost."

All are disobedient. You quote nothing on salvation here. There is a hypothetical chance at salvation for obeying the Law, but no one obeys the law; it just condemns. You and I have not done well. We deserve damnation. But you must be saved by grace or not at all.

For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and that not of yourselves,
not of works lest anyone should boast. -- Eph 2

You claim "Revelation says
Once saved always saved will no save you if you take the mark of the Beast"

Absolutely no verse says that, and you did not quote any. Taking the mark of the beast would be evidence you had never been born again.

The Mark is a mark. What is so hard to understand? It could be put on with ink and a pen. Speculating about the mark has nothing to do with OSAS, or trusting Christ as Savior.

You say, "you are not if you disobey God."

In many ways we all stumble, as James says. So if what you said were true, neither you nor I would have eternal life.

But the Word of God offers it just for trusting Christ as Savior.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

Now is the day of salvation.

 

[Atwood]

Respective of what I understand this is another strawman.
You have also mischaracterized what scripture teaches regarding the difference between salvation from death and sin, and man's reponse through faith of attaining eternal life.

But since you claim it is a heresy, can you cite when it was declared a heresy? Who declared it a heresy?

Cassian,
The point is not who said it was a heresy. Since it contradicts a basic truth of Scripture, it is a heresy. When? The Bible was finished around AD 100.

As I said,
The reason why this denial is heresy is that it denies the very concept of salvation and that the Lord Jesus is our Savior. Those who take that route have distorted the meaning of salvation and savior. Such a denial is evidence that a man does not trust Christ as His Savior. But salvation is something we must have; we will not receive validation of our life's works.


You claim: "You have also mischaracterized what scripture teaches regarding the difference between salvation from death and sin, and man's reponse through faith of attaining eternal life."

What is your proof of that?

The Word teaches that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ out Lord.

The free gift is not a chance, but actual eternal life.

The gift is appropriated by trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior, believing in Him, not by believing we have a chance if we are good boys.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL be saved. No ifs, ands or buts.

Trust Him today as your only and sufficient Savior. He paid for your sins on the cross. He said, "It is finished."

Romans 8 is no straw man, but essential truth:

"He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom he foreknew, he also
foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them he also
called: and whom he called, them he also
justified: and whom he justified, them he also
glorified. "


Once in the winter on a hill I slipped and fell into a sled-groove; I fought and twisted as I zoomed down the hill; but i could do nothing to get out of that groove till I reached the bottom of the hill. There it is like dominoes: foreknew, foreordained, called, justified, glorified. Once you get in that groove, you stay.


"What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Atwood]

Was the Prodigal Son OSAS?
Looks like the son was DEAD. He only returned to become alive again, but had he not returned he would have stayed dead.

Luke 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

Luke 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Were the Ten Virgins OSAS?
All ten had lamps and oil, but were half of them eternally saved?




Were the Unprofitable Servant OSAS?
He was a servant, given the same as the others.


Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Matthew 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Paul said:

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1 Cor 9:27 context:

"Know ye not that they that run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? Even so run; that ye may attain. And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, as not uncertainly; so fight I, as not beating the air: but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified (adokimos).

the Passage is about disqualification from receiving a reward (crown, victor's wreath is a symbol of rewards). Christians are to be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ for rewards or loss of rewards, not salvation.

You don't establish doctrine from parables. Also, you don't try to make them go on all fours, but seek what is the main point being illustrated.

The Prodigal Son is an illustration. Salvation is not mentioned.
The issue is not being, losing, and regaining the nature of a Son of the Father. That was a constant. "Death" is a figure of speech for separation from God, even by way of out of fellowship. The Christian may figuratively "die," get out of fellowship and be exhorted, Awake you who sleep, and rise from the dead, and Christ will shine upon you. See Romans 7 where the saved I continues while the old man I sins.

The 10 Virgins is a parable about being alert to the Coming of Christ. Salvation is not mentioned, nor the issue.

The Parable of Talents is about rewards and punishments visited upon men for their behavior while the King is gone before He returns.

"For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servantinto outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

We don't establish doctrine from parables, but use them to illustrate truth proven from propositional teaching. In the Talents, the one who has gets. So you could say, the one who has eternal life (is saved) gets rewards. But the one who is unprofitable (unsaved, doesn't "have") is punished.

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

 

[Atwood]

I think that some of the confusion on salvation comes from not understanding that judgment and salvation are two different subjects. So far as I know, judgment is always based on works. But salvation comes only by grace, apart from works. Bible salvation is not an outcome of some judgment. But salvation determines which judgment you go to. (Believers to the Judgment Seat of Christ = the Bema; unbelievers go to the Great White Throne when they are condemned for their works and go to the Lake of Fire).

BTW, some believers may see their works burned up as "wood, hay, and stubble," experience momentary sorrow for losing reward, even "be saved, yet as through fire," -- not that they are burned, but their works are burned.

 

[Atwood]

As to the thread title, I think it might be opposite.

John, when will you completely trust the Lord Jesus for your future? when will you trust Him as your only and sufficient Savior? He paid for all your sins in the most horrible pain imaginable on the cross. He said, "It is finished."

When will it be,
"Nothing in my hand I bring;
simply to thy cross I cling."

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Sorry Atwood, God knows everything (including questions who will be saved and who condemned).

Do not you suppose that by such applying of the OSAS theory to yourself and to anybody else you are trying to take place of the Lord (who is to judge humankind).

Such personalised claim of OSAS (made by any human about anyone) itself is obvious Heresy
But, I would called such assurance (as usage OSAS to any living person) by word enticement.
In orthopdox doctrin the term express the highest form of self-deceipt = illussion of proud mind.

Satanic Heresy is to say: everything OK, for I am saved since OSAS as well.

 

[john832]

John, when will you completely trust the Lord Jesus for your future? when will you trust Him as your only and sufficient Savior? He paid for all your sins in the most horrible pain imaginable on the cross. He said, "It is finished."

When will it be,
"Nothing in my hand I bring;
simply to thy cross I cling."

I think OSAS is refuted by the scripture...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Why did Paul think he could be cast away?

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

He even speaks of those who have cast off their faith...

1Ti 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
1Ti 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

OSAS is not scriptural.

 

[Atwood]

Sorry Atwood, God knows everything (including questions who will be saved and who condemned).

Grand Hobo Master (great screen name) says:

"Sorry Atwood, God knows everything (including questions who will be saved and who condemned).

"Do not you suppose that by such applying of the OSAS theory to yourself and to anybody else you are trying to take place of the Lord (who is to judge humankind)."

Believing that the Lord Jesus is my Savior is not sinfully judging. Trusting Him to save is the requirement for salvation.

The Word says, "For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

It is not sinfully judging to believe this.
It is not sinfully judging to say that one must trust Christ as Savior to be saved.

Hobo says:
"In orthopdox doctrin the term express the highest form of self-deceipt = illussion of proud mind. Satanic Heresy is to say: everything OK, for I am saved since OSAS as well."

It is not proud to trust Christ as SAvior with the attitude, of "God be merciful to me a sinner." It is proud to think that you might get validation of your life's work at some judgment. It is proud to deny that you are so utterly wretchedly sinful, that you must be saved by grace.

1 john 5:

"Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."

What is satanic is to deny God's word.

 

[Atwood]

I think OSAS is refuted by the scripture...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

Why did Paul think he could be cast away?

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

He even speaks of those who have cast off their faith...

1Ti 5:11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
1Ti 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

OSAS is not scriptural.

Heb 6 is explained in 6:9


9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

The text does not describe a person who trusted Christ as Savior, but a professed Christian, never having received salvation.

I posted the context of 1 Cor 9 already, it is getting a crown, reward for good works for which one might be disqualified (adokimos), "castaway" is a misleading translation. It is not about salvation.

1 Tim 5:2 is again mistranslated. To say that a woman who had vowed not to get married, but then marries, goes to Hell for it, is a strange doctrine:

" But younger widows refuse: for when they have waxed wanton against Christ, they desire to marry; having condemnation, because they have rejected their first pledge."

So the Lord through apostle Paul forbids this vow.

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Grand Hobo Master (great screen name) says:

"Sorry Atwood, God knows everything (including questions who will be saved and who condemned).

"Do not you suppose that by such applying of the OSAS theory to yourself and to anybody else you are trying to take place of the Lord (who is to judge humankind)."

Believing that the Lord Jesus is my Savior is not sinfully judging. Trusting Him to save is the requirement for salvation.

The Word says, "For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

It is not sinfully judging to believe this.
It is not sinfully judging to say that one must trust Christ as Savior to be saved.

Hobo says:
"In orthopdox doctrin the term express the highest form of self-deceipt = illussion of proud mind. Satanic Heresy is to say: everything OK, for I am saved since OSAS as well."

It is not proud to trust Christ as SAvior with the attitude, of "God be merciful to me a sinner." It is proud to think that you might get validation of your life's work at some judgment. It is proud to deny that you are so utterly wretchedly sinful, that you must be saved by grace.

1 john 5:

"Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."

What is satanic is to deny God's word.

Have you forgotten also His words: Depart from me evildoers for I never knew you.
Or the parable about taking places in the table????

Why you are placing yourself to the right hand of Lord before His own judgement???

Satanic possession is to deceipt own soul by such self-judging.

We know the Jesus is Lord and His worlds are true.

But, who a you to use His favourit worlds to yourself instead of Lord Jesus????

 

[Cassian]

Atwood,

The point is not who said it was a heresy. Since it contradicts a basic truth of Scripture, it is a heresy. When? The Bible was finished around AD 100.

According to whom? Who declared it as a contradiction of scripture?

The reason why this denial is heresy is that it denies the very concept of salvation and that the Lord Jesus is our Savior. Those who take that route have distorted the meaning of salvation and savior. Such a denial is evidence that a man does not trust Christ as His Savior. But salvation is something we must have; we will not receive validation of our life's works.

AGain, according to whom?
The above statement is just your opinion. An opinion based on what?

You claim: "You have also mischaracterized what scripture teaches regarding the difference between salvation from death and sin, and man's reponse through faith of attaining eternal life."
What is your proof of that?
The Word teaches that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ out Lord.
The free gift is not a chance, but actual eternal life.
The gift is appropriated by trusting the Lord Jesus as Savior, believing in Him, not by believing we have a chance if we are good boys.
Trust Him today as your only and sufficient Savior. He paid for your sins on the cross. He said, "It is finished."

It was finished for the world, for every human being. This is the gift of salvation given to the world, which makes the attainment of eternal life possible for a believer. This is why you are conflating them, you think they are the same. They are not.

Everything is a gift. But gifts are for a purpose.
Christ redeemed the world from death and sin. That is a free gift (Rom 5:15) which is stated in vs 18, life being given to all men. That is Christ great gift of love, mercy and grace to the world, not just all men. The purpose of that gift was to enable man to be joined with Christ is a living relationship that is covenantal. It is not a one sided arrangement with eternal life given simply on a one-time affirmation of faith. NOthing in scripture even comes close to that idea. Man was created free, with a rational soul. God is testing our faith, He is working with us through faith to perfect ourselves attaining the Likeness of Christ. Man is free to break that covenant at any time and scripture gives multitude of examples and about a third of the NT is spent exhorting one to be faithful, not to lose faith.
Historically, OSAS is a tenet of Predestination. As understood by Calvin, which he took from Augustine, who took it from his former pagan religion of Manicheanism. A Reformed theologian, Boettner admitted that predestination is the very same thing as the pagan idea of fate, except, rather than a pagan deity, it is God. All of the tenets(TULIP) are premised on predestination including the "perseverance of the saints" which later adherents called OSAS. It is not only a man made theory imposed upon scripture, but it has it origins in pagan religions.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL be saved. No ifs, ands or buts.

This statement has two conditions attached.
First, the verb " believe is in the present tense, active and continuing. The result of believing will not be finalized until the end " shall be saved." It never states one is saved or has been saved.
You are correct in that there is no ifs, ands or buts, but the conditions must be met. It is not simple, only, faith as Satan possesses.

Once in the winter on a hill I slipped and fell into a sled-groove; I fought and twisted as I zoomed down the hill; but i could do nothing to get out of that groove till I reached the bottom of the hill. There it is like dominoes: foreknew, foreordained, called, justified, glorified. Once you get in that groove, you stay.

quite false. This text really does nothing to support OSAS. I know that those who hold to predestination use this verse, but predestination as the Reformed view states cannot be found here or anywhere else in scripture. It is a pagan idea, Augustine assimulated into his christian theology.

"What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

this does not help you view either, since Christ's love of mankind will follow even those who reject Him right into hell. The very love God showers upon them, they perceive as fire.
But the main thrust is that God is not the one that breaks the covenant. It is always man that breaks the covenant. Did God break His Covenant with Isreal? Or did Isreal? Why would you think that man is incapable of breaking the New Covenant?

 

[Atwood]

Have you forgotten also His words: Depart from me evildoers for I never knew you.
Or the parable about taking places in the table????

Why you are placing yourself to the right hand of Lord before His own judgement???

Satanic possession is to deceipt own soul by such self-judging.

We know the Jesus is Lord and His worlds are true.

But, who a you to use His favourit worlds to yourself instead of Lord Jesus????

Hobo:

Sinfully judging is to assume things in persons hearts which only the Lord can see, or to believe something bad about them without sufficient evidence.

To affirm God's word that a man must trust Christ as Savior, has nothing to do with sinful judging, but with believing God's Word.

Word of God, Hobo:

Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."

I believe God's word, Hobo.
Thus I know I have eternal life because I trust the Lord Jesus and believe that God is not a liar.

"he said to them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!"

"This is like Israel at Kadesh-Barnea, who failed to trust in the Lord and would not enter the promised land."

Hobo, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
He is our Savior, the 2nd Person of the Trinity, God become man, Who went to the cross, paid for our sins, died, and rose again.

Right now, take the knee and call out: "Lord Jesus, please save me, make this sinner a New child of God, please give me your free gift of eternal life. I do now trust the Lord Jesus as my only & sufficient Savior, and I depend completely and only on His death on the cross as full payment for all my sins."

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Teach yourself, Atwood. I know exactly what I believe.

I am an orthodox. And I share initial christian approach, which is free from whatever heresy.

By taking certain favourite verses from the scriptures (and applying it to yourself) you are creating in your own mind illussion of the salvation of own soul.
But, the true reality, which you are to see after death will be opposite to your expectations.

For the greatest hermits (of the early monks) had big troubles (after death) for softest thoughts about their own salvation.

And you are trying to preach false doctrin among christians, calling by stanic heresy, views of all who disagree with your illussion.

I repeat you the main point, = you (as well as anyone else) can not know wchich words Lord will use to you personally in the Doomsday. You are placing yourself on the place of Divine Judge. And also you want others to follow your deceiptfull views.

The Satan is source of your own self-confidence (for the proudness is also mortl sin, even bigger than another).

 

[Atwood]

Atwood,

According to whom? Who declared it as a contradiction of scripture?[/i]

When a heresy contradicts scripture, it is a matter of fact, not of who declares it.
The fact is based on scripture, not human tradition. Man is not above God's Word.
Once the Word declares a truth, that is the end of the argument, "It is written," not
"Sanctimonius Robe-Wearer," says it.

Cassian goes on, alien to Scripture: "It was finished for the world, for every human being. This is the gift of salvation given to the world, which makes the attainment of eternal life possible for a believer."

A man who believes in the Lord Jesus receives eternal life, not the possibility of eternal life.
"God so loved the World that He gave His only Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but HAVE everlasting life" -- not the possibility of it if he is a good boy.

"Everything is a gift."

Salvation is a free gift, rewards are earned (not free gift). Salvation cost the Lord Jesus His precious blood, but it costs the believer nothing; we get it as a gift.

But gifts are for a purpose.

"Christ redeemed the world from death and sin. That is a free gift (Rom 5:15) which is stated in vs 18, life being given to all men. That is Christ great gift of love, mercy and grace to the world, not just all men."

There are universal blessings from the atonement -- men get a time to have a change of mind and start trusting Him for salvation. But the atonement does not secure for all men eternal life; they must believe to appropriate the gift.

Cassian claims without any scripture:

"The purpose of that gift was to enable man to be joined with Christ is a living relationship that is covenantal. It is not a one sided arrangement with eternal life given simply on a one-time affirmation of faith."

Covenants with God are basically one-sided. God makes the conditions and the promises, as with Abraham. Abe was asleep when the covenant was finalized and Abe got no chance to make or alter provisions. The New Covenant is the same. God announced in Jeremiah 31 what was going to be what; and that was and is that.

Cassian makes more claims, but he should prove them or drop them. He gives no scripture. Cassian, I urge you to stop theorizing and pontificating and prove things from God's Word. First, believe His Word. Exhortations to be faithful do not alter that a bit.

Then Cassian gets into the Calvin Tulip, which is not necessary to affirm salvation. Predestination and election are in the Bible and did not come from paganism. Christians have different interps of election, which are not essential to affirming that the saved are saved. What Boettner opines is irrelevant, a straw man.

Cassian claimes :This statement has two conditions attached.
First, the verb " believe is in the present tense, active and continuing. The result of believing will not be finalized until the end " shall be saved." It never states one is saved or has been saved."

John 3:16 clearly states that the man who present tense is believing in the Lord Jesus shall have (future) everlasting life, a future of consequence, but if you take it as pure future, the result is the same. Everlasting life. No ifs, ands or buts.

Cassian says: "You are correct in that there is no ifs, ands or buts, but the conditions must be met. It is not simple, only, faith as Satan possesses."

Yes, it is not demonic faith believing merely that a fact is true. It is depending on the Lord Jesus, trusting in Him, which is the antithesis of demonic belief.

BTW, in my reading of Augustine, it seems to me that he did not believe in eternal security. But that is irrelevant, as it is the Word of God, not human tradition which is important.

Cassian says "this does not help you view either, since Christ's love of mankind will follow even those who reject Him right into hell. The very love God showers upon them, they perceive as fire. "

Romans 8 would be pointless if those who could not be separated from not merely God's love, but God's love IN CHRIST JESUS, were enduring the Lake of Fire. Total nonsense. Would you put the Lord Jesus in the Lake of Fire for believers who are in Christ Jesus to be there? But He has already figuratively suffered hell for us on the cross.

There is nothing in scripture about man being able to break the New Covenant.

Jer 31:

"Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, says YHWH. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says YHWH:

I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know YHWH; for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith YHWH: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.

3Thus says YHWH, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, so that the waves thereof roar; YHWH of hosts is his name: If these ordinances depart from before me, says YHWH, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever. Thus says YHWH: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, then will I also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, says YHWH.


Heb 8:
"But now He has obtained a ministry the more excellent, by so much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted upon better promises."


Heb 9
"For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling them that have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh: how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish unto God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of a new covenant, that a death having taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, they that have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. "

Trust Him this day as your only & sufficient Savior; trust Him for eternal life, an inheritance, incorruptible and undefiled, that does not fade away!