It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[2Thewaters]

Many believe they will be saved, but won't be.


Jesus says Follow me.
I believe that.
follow the word of god

parableof the talents, the man who said he didn't do anything was beaten.

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

Also you both, Atwood and eternally-greatfull, may use whatsoever verses and arguments in support of your illussion (the OSAS).

But s the Lord explained in the parable (Matthew 22:1-14)
12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that placethere will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

By your OSAS statement you are trying authomaticly to enlist yourselves in the number of the chosen breathren. So, the casting into the outer darkness will be more painfull for you, than for the rest of sinners.

You just deceiving yourselves.

 

[2Thewaters]

You can believe what you want, but if part of that belief is not to follow old testament, Acts, Revelation and Pauls writings
ourter darkness awaits.

 

[Kerry]

to the OP it is satanic to believe that once your saved your always saved even if you rob steal and kill and do drugs and work deceitfully in business deals and so on.

 

[2Thewaters]

no such thing as once saved always saved
The pharisee who prayed standing up thought he was saved
he has a surprise coming

 

[feedm3]

scripture also says to have faith in christ to save our eternal souls is obeying the gospel.

it also says those who are saved WILL OBEY HIM, Not might.
it also says those who are not saved CAN NOT OBEY HIM. NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO.

EG, all arguing and smart alec comments aside. Do you really not see what you're saying here?

Dude, you are saying you believe we MUST obey God, if not we were never saved. Because we did not have true faith right?

So then why in the world are you so despretly trying to convince those who say this, that they are wrong?

It bothers you that bad that if someone says they "lost salavtion" instead of saying "they were never saved" you will try anything to convince them that they are trying to earn salavtion because they did not say "never saved"? Even though you claim you believe if they do not obey the are not saved, never were.

So what? Will it cost them their salavtion if they think they can lose it?

Are you fighting so hard, because you think we MUST believe we were never saved if we lived in sin over losing salvation?

If you believe that we were never saved if we live in obedience, why do you invent such bizzare interpertation of Heb 10:25-F, wouldnt that support your belief that they were never saved because of disobedience?

As for Heb 5:9, yes faith in Chirst is obedience, and if you beleive we were never saved without it, then isnt obedience a MUST in order to go to heaven?

once again:

Is OBEDIENCE A MUST in order to go to heaven?

Im not asking what the saving factor is, im asking if it is a must to ever see heaven?

If yes - then obedience is essential you should stop telling people it has nothign to do with salvation.

IF no - Then the only logical conclusion is a Christian can live in sin and still see heaven.

Right? There is no denying those conclusions.

 

[Kerry]

no such thing as once saved always saved
The pharisee who prayed standing up thought he was saved
he has a surprise coming

So if I go and and accept Christ and get baptized, but then some tragedy happens and I get mad at God and start drinking and doing drugs and kill people and rob stores. I'm still saved?

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

FAITH is the substance of things HOPED for. the evidence of things not seen.

In the HOPE of eternal life. Which God, WHO CAN NOT LIE, promised BEFORE TIME BEGAN.

If one does not have OSAS, he does not have hope. in the biblical defenition of the term. If he does not have Hope. He does not have faith. The only faith he can possibly have is the faith you have, In men and self. Which to be honest. is no faith at all. There is no HOPE found in me. Only in CHrist.



It is not my faith. It is Gods.

"It is the work of GOD that you believe in the one he sent (john 6)

No dude, it is your own manipulation by the verses of Holy Scriptures, which you are trying to represent as Gods statement.
The Lord knows better for whom his certain words to be applied and in what kind of manner.
All the heretical theory of yours in support of idea of your own personal salvation is a kind of satanic possesion.

 

[Atwood]

Because this same GOD also said he is the "author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY" HEB 5:9*****

Implying the disobedient ARE NOT SAVED.

So you dont believe he is the author of salvation for the obedient???

Feedm,

The command which you must obey for eternal salvation is "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." Over and over again, it is reiterated that all a man must do to be saved is to believe in or trust the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast."

And note that he is the author or cause of salvation, not we ourselves. And also the salvation is eternal salvation! not temporary.

Feedm goes on:

"You want this person your responding to NOT believe he MUST obey God? Then you will be happy he believes like you? "

No one, not you or I, will ever be saved by keeping the commandments of God, except that we are commanded to trust Him. We all fail in many ways. Romans 7 says that when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Good works must follow and the the result of faith in Christ, but they do not save. The path to "Hell" is thinking you are righteous and going to get into Heaven by good works. That is Phariseeism vs "God be merciful to me a sinner."

Feedm continues: "How many people does that bring right to hell?"

If a man believes in the Lord Jesus, how could he go to hell?
"God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." So how can a man who believes in Him perish in Hell? It is impossible, as God has promised Him everlasting life.

Feedm continues: "And if you truly believed if we disobey (live a life of sin) you would be preaching that we better obey God or we were never saved to beging with. is that you message?"

Indeed if a man has a life of gross sin, he should ask himself if He ever trusted Christ as Savior. But salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works.

Feedm claims: "I really pray you see this, because if your right and I am wrong, i will still go to heaven because I believe, and try to abstain from sin."

"BUT, If I am right and you are wrong, then you will know for eternity. Because false doctrine is disobedient, and the Bible is clear where false teachers are going. "

If so, you had best fear; repent of works-salvation; trust the crucified One to save you. Trying to abstain from sin doesn't save anyone. And you will not abstain from sin.


" You better take what you do seriously EG this is not a game of who can appear to be right. This involves peoples souls man."

Now that is true; it is not a game. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."

Romans:

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame.


10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my supplication to God is for them, that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down 7 or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach: because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;

 

[Butch5]

Probably many of us are annoyed by threads being started with false statements, like OSAS is of satan. Then it is in our face all the time while we present scriptural proof how that if you are saved you are saved!

The reason why this denial is heresy is that it denies the very concept of salvation and that the Lord Jesus is our Savior. Those who take that route have distorted the meaning of salvation and savior. Such a denial is evidence that a man does not trust Christ as His Savior. But salvation is something we must have; we will not receive validation of our life's works.

To be sure, grace is an offense to the pride of man, since a corollary of grace (favor contrary to what we deserve) is the depravity of man. This explains why men despise grace, the idea that eternal life is a free gift to those who trust Christ as Savior. Men do not want to admit the depth of their depravity. But the idea that after judgment a man would be validated on the basis of his life's works and then do God a favor by entering Heaven, is a serious error. Man must have salvation, not validation of life. We must admit that our depravity is so profound that we must be saved by grace.

Salvation is not something one receives after an examination and judgment of works, salvation starts with a new birth and includes eternal life right now in this life. "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Rom 8:

For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them
he also justified: and whom he justified, them
he also glorified.


What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He Who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall He not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

One would think that if is OSAS was true there would be at least one verse of Scriptures that states it. 66 books and not a single passage of Scripture that says one cannot lose salvation, gotta wonder.

 

[feedm3]

Also you both, Atwood and eternally-greatfull, may use whatsoever verses and arguments in support of your illussion (the OSAS).

But s the Lord explained in the parable (Matthew 22:1-14)
12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that placethere will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

By your OSAS statement you are trying authomaticly to enlist yourselves in the number of the chosen breathren. So, the casting into the outer darkness will be more painfull for you, than for the rest of sinners.

You just deceiving yourselves.

You know whats funny. Atwood and Eternally grateful, do not even believe the same thing, even tho they both claim OSAS.

EG believes if you do not obey God, you were never saved.

So really he does believe obedience is a MUST in order to go to heaven. I have no idea what he is arguing about. It's weird. Just ask him. Some OSAS people even are calling him out now over it.

I understand exactly what he is agains if he believe we must obey in order to see heaven in the end.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

I've been through this argument a "zillion" times - waste of effort really - I let 'em worry wart about their salvation.

(Heb 7:25 KJV) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.



What's not to understand about "uttermost"?

 

[feedm3]

I've been through this argument a "zillion" times - waste of effort really - I let 'em worry wart about their salvation.

(Heb 7:25 KJV) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.



What's not to understand about "uttermost"?

What does uttermost have to do with any of it? We know is ABLE to do all things. NO body lives too far away for him to save. noone has a condition he cannot change. He does not save ONLY some that come to him but all to the uttermost. This does not say one way or the other concernig salvation.The argument is can we walk away from him, through disobedience and lose salvation?

As far as "worry warting" if you wanna put that way.
Yet Paul said work out your own salvation with FEAR and TREMBLING. So your easy salvation attitude is actually in contrast to how we are told to handle and view Salvation.


Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling - Phip 2:12

And being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey - Heb 5:9

What's not to be understood about "all them that obey"?

 

[phil112]

It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Didn't get out of the way of that sword, eh, atwood? Had to come over and commiserate with like-minded people that don't like truth either, eh? You can't run from it. The word doesn't return void.

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

And by the way, I am not worried about any "satanic heresy". My life is focused on Christ. Don't you think you should worry about something other than those that irritate satan anyway?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Also you both, Atwood and eternally-greatfull, may use whatsoever verses and arguments in support of your illussion (the OSAS).

But s the Lord explained in the parable (Matthew 22:1-14)
12 And he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that placethere will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

By your OSAS statement you are trying authomaticly to enlist yourselves in the number of the chosen breathren. So, the casting into the outer darkness will be more painfull for you, than for the rest of sinners.

You just deceiving yourselves.

see you do not even make sense.

Osas do not automatically enlist ourselves to anything, We get on our knees and ask God to grant us salvation, because we are undeserving.

Your trying to pay your way in. Your trying to force God to give you something because you have earned it. What makes you any different than the pharisees?

Why do you not stop listening to men who tell you what we believe (which makes utterly no sense if you REALY listened to yourself) and start listening to what people say about what they believe, and better yet, Start listening to God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

to the OP it is satanic to believe that once your saved your always saved even if you rob steal and kill and do drugs and work deceitfully in business deals and so on.

Do you lie? Do you take for self (in any area? Do you not do things for God because your too busy? Do you do things for people but expect them to return the favor? Do you sin?

If you say no. According to John your a liar

If you say yes. You have broken the law. And as James said, if we break even the LEAST of the law. we are guilty of the whole law.

So why do you judge others, when you yourself are a sinner, and deserving of eternal condemnation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So if I go and and accept Christ and get baptized, but then some tragedy happens and I get mad at God and start drinking and doing drugs and kill people and rob stores. I'm still saved?

if you were saved, I doubt you would do this. I know many who were angry, and did not go out and start murdering people. (was david angry when he killed bathseba's husband"



Look at your every day life. If you do not see yourself just as evil as the person you claim you would be. You do not know God or his law at all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No dude, it is your own manipulation by the verses of Holy Scriptures, which you are trying to represent as Gods statement.
The Lord knows better for whom his certain words to be applied and in what kind of manner.
All the heretical theory of yours in support of idea of your own personal salvation is a kind of satanic possesion.

so we do not Take God literally at what he says? (Oh I forgot your of the roman pursuasion, you take a symbologic approach to the words of God not a literal one, forgive me)

then tell me.

What does it mean when God says faith is the substance of things hoped for. the evidence of things not seen

What does God mean when he said that our hope was eternal life, Which God, Who can not lie, promised before time began? And why did God say he tells us these things so we KNOW WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE?

Why does God say faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

You made a statement, and did not back it up. Would you like to do this? or just prove you have nothing to say.

To just says "Your wrong, Because I said so" with no proof to back your claims does not cut it. The pharisees tried this. We see how far it got them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Feedm,

The command which you must obey for eternal salvation is "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." Over and over again, it is reiterated that all a man must do to be saved is to believe in or trust the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast."

And note that he is the author or cause of salvation, not we ourselves. And also the salvation is eternal salvation! not temporary.

Feedm goes on:

"You want this person your responding to NOT believe he MUST obey God? Then you will be happy he believes like you? "

No one, not you or I, will ever be saved by keeping the commandments of God, except that we are commanded to trust Him. We all fail in many ways. Romans 7 says that when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.

Good works must follow and the the result of faith in Christ, but they do not save. The path to "Hell" is thinking you are righteous and going to get into Heaven by good works. That is Phariseeism vs "God be merciful to me a sinner."

Feedm continues: "How many people does that bring right to hell?"

If a man believes in the Lord Jesus, how could he go to hell?
"God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." So how can a man who believes in Him perish in Hell? It is impossible, as God has promised Him everlasting life.

Feedm continues: "And if you truly believed if we disobey (live a life of sin) you would be preaching that we better obey God or we were never saved to beging with. is that you message?"

Indeed if a man has a life of gross sin, he should ask himself if He ever trusted Christ as Savior. But salvation is by grace through faith, apart from works.

Feedm claims: "I really pray you see this, because if your right and I am wrong, i will still go to heaven because I believe, and try to abstain from sin."

"BUT, If I am right and you are wrong, then you will know for eternity. Because false doctrine is disobedient, and the Bible is clear where false teachers are going. "

If so, you had best fear; repent of works-salvation; trust the crucified One to save you. Trying to abstain from sin doesn't save anyone. And you will not abstain from sin.


" You better take what you do seriously EG this is not a game of who can appear to be right. This involves peoples souls man."

Now that is true; it is not a game. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."

[/SIZE]Romans:

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame.


10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my supplication to God is for them, that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down 7 or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach: because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;

freedom thinks we preach we can say a prayer and we can live however we want, it does not matter if we sin or not.

He is called Mr Twisty for a reason.

He makes claims, Which are not substantiated with facts, But he calls them facts.

 

[Kerry]

if you were saved, I doubt you would do this. I know many who were angry, and did not go out and start murdering people. (was david angry when he killed bathseba's husband"



Look at your every day life. If you do not see yourself just as evil as the person you claim you would be. You do not know God or his law at all.

No David was not angry but looked across the roof of his house and saw a beautiful women naked and he burned for her and killed her husband so that he could marry her. Then Nathan the prophet pronounced judgement against him and David fell to his knees and repented and begged for God's mercy. Had he not done that would he be in heaven today?