Mormons / Latter Day Saints
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I put you on my ignore list as per your request. One last thing however. I also disagree that all those people is the lord from heaven...I have made it clear that all born again people are the Lord's who is from heaven... You see that scripture as confirming all of us as being spirit children before birth, and I see the same scripture as Paul introducing Christ to the people at Athens. There is no difference with them and Paul being natural offspring of creation, but this scripture is certainly not a confirmation of spirit children by using the term offspring for confirmation of what the entire context is saying. Jesus is the "firstborn" from the "dead". Sorry you cannot see the relevance. I have given much information to that truth by answering your questions as honestly as I can. The truth is we are of the spirit after being born again. we are not of the spirit before we are born. Here is how the Complete Jewish Bible tells the entire story of Paul and the poets.
Paul's escort went with him as far as Athens, then left with instructions for Silas and Timothy to come as quickly as they could. While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, his spirit within him was disturbed at the sight of the city full of idols. So he began holding discussions in the synagogue with the Jews and the "God-fearers," and in the market square every day with the people who happened to be there. Also a group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers started meeting with him. Some asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others, because he proclaimed the Good News about Jesus and the resurrection, said, "He sounds like a propagandist for foreign gods." They took and brought him before the High Council, saying, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? Some of the things we are hearing from you strike us as strange, and we would like to know what they mean." (All the Athenians and the foreigners living there used to spend their spare time talking or hearing about the latest intellectual fads.) Paul stood up in the Council meeting and said, "Men of Athens: I see how very religious you are in every way! For as I was walking around, looking at your shrines, I even found an altar which had been inscribed, 'To An Unknown God.' So, the one whom you are already worshipping in ignorance-this is the one I proclaim to you. "The God who made the universe and everything in it, and who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in man-made temples; nor is he served by human hands, as if he lacked something; since it is he himself who gives life and breath and everything to everyone. "From one man he made every nation living on the entire surface of the earth, and he fixed the limits of their territories and the periods when they would flourish. God did this so that people would look for him and perhaps reach out and find him although in fact, he is not far from each one of us, 'for in him we live and move and exist.' Indeed, as some of the poets among you have said, 'We are actually his children.' So, since we are children of God, we shouldn't suppose that God's essence resembles gold, silver or stone shaped by human technique and imagination. "In the past, God overlooked such ignorance; but now he is commanding all people everywhere to turn to him from their sins. For he has set a Day when he will judge the inhabited world, and do it justly, by means of a man whom he has designated. And he has given public proof of it by resurrecting this man from the dead." At the mention of a resurrection of dead people, some began to scoff; while others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject." So Paul left the meeting. But some men stayed with him and came to trust, including the High Council member Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
So what is the message? Proving our spiritual existence before birth or proving our spiritual existence by the resurrection of Christ? Think of how God has created things. Think of the parable of the sower and the seed. Before life springs forth, the seed has to die before a root is formed. Yes, we are actually His children. He created us, so why would we worship our creator shaped by our human technique and imagination. Does He not sustain us and give us our every breath? Yes
1 Corinthians 15:21-23
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive .
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
We all die as the first Adam so in like manner we live by the resurrection of the second Adam. The first Adam represents the entire populous of the world from the beginning of time, and the second Adam (Jesus Christ) represents the entire populous of all who believe in Him.
Continuing with 1 Corinthains 15:43-49
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written , The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 *Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
43 *We are not sown in glory and then raised in dishonour. We are not sown in power and then raised in weakness. 44 We are not sown a spiritual body and then raised a natural body.
If that were so, we would have the gospel message totally backwards. God forbid.
My God bless you with this truth.
Paul's escort went with him as far as Athens, then left with instructions for Silas and Timothy to come as quickly as they could. While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, his spirit within him was disturbed at the sight of the city full of idols. So he began holding discussions in the synagogue with the Jews and the "God-fearers," and in the market square every day with the people who happened to be there. Also a group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers started meeting with him. Some asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others, because he proclaimed the Good News about Jesus and the resurrection, said, "He sounds like a propagandist for foreign gods." They took and brought him before the High Council, saying, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? Some of the things we are hearing from you strike us as strange, and we would like to know what they mean." (All the Athenians and the foreigners living there used to spend their spare time talking or hearing about the latest intellectual fads.) Paul stood up in the Council meeting and said, "Men of Athens: I see how very religious you are in every way! For as I was walking around, looking at your shrines, I even found an altar which had been inscribed, 'To An Unknown God.' So, the one whom you are already worshipping in ignorance-this is the one I proclaim to you. "The God who made the universe and everything in it, and who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in man-made temples; nor is he served by human hands, as if he lacked something; since it is he himself who gives life and breath and everything to everyone. "From one man he made every nation living on the entire surface of the earth, and he fixed the limits of their territories and the periods when they would flourish. God did this so that people would look for him and perhaps reach out and find him although in fact, he is not far from each one of us, 'for in him we live and move and exist.' Indeed, as some of the poets among you have said, 'We are actually his children.' So, since we are children of God, we shouldn't suppose that God's essence resembles gold, silver or stone shaped by human technique and imagination. "In the past, God overlooked such ignorance; but now he is commanding all people everywhere to turn to him from their sins. For he has set a Day when he will judge the inhabited world, and do it justly, by means of a man whom he has designated. And he has given public proof of it by resurrecting this man from the dead." At the mention of a resurrection of dead people, some began to scoff; while others said, "We want to hear you again on this subject." So Paul left the meeting. But some men stayed with him and came to trust, including the High Council member Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
So what is the message? Proving our spiritual existence before birth or proving our spiritual existence by the resurrection of Christ? Think of how God has created things. Think of the parable of the sower and the seed. Before life springs forth, the seed has to die before a root is formed. Yes, we are actually His children. He created us, so why would we worship our creator shaped by our human technique and imagination. Does He not sustain us and give us our every breath? Yes
1 Corinthians 15:21-23
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive .
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
We all die as the first Adam so in like manner we live by the resurrection of the second Adam. The first Adam represents the entire populous of the world from the beginning of time, and the second Adam (Jesus Christ) represents the entire populous of all who believe in Him.
Continuing with 1 Corinthains 15:43-49
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written , The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 *Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
43 *We are not sown in glory and then raised in dishonour. We are not sown in power and then raised in weakness. 44 We are not sown a spiritual body and then raised a natural body.
If that were so, we would have the gospel message totally backwards. God forbid.
My God bless you with this truth.
my request? well, it was more of an encouragement, I think... but sure, if you see my posts as interference, then I think it's a good idea...
"You see that scripture as confirming all of us as being spirit children before birth"... not true... I see it as talking about how the dead are raised up... offspring of creation? ... Paul, and the poet, use the phrase offspring of God... 'Jesus is the "firstborn" from the "dead"'... yes! the scriptures say that!...cjb is a great bible... 'We are actually his children' ... I hadn't heard it phrased like that before... I think Paul is talking about Jesus, the resurrection, and that God 'is commanding all people everywhere to turn to him from their sins'... 'My God bless you with this truth'... thanks! and every truth he wants to give me! Blessings from God to you also!
Grace and peace to you!
"You see that scripture as confirming all of us as being spirit children before birth"... not true... I see it as talking about how the dead are raised up... offspring of creation? ... Paul, and the poet, use the phrase offspring of God... 'Jesus is the "firstborn" from the "dead"'... yes! the scriptures say that!...cjb is a great bible... 'We are actually his children' ... I hadn't heard it phrased like that before... I think Paul is talking about Jesus, the resurrection, and that God 'is commanding all people everywhere to turn to him from their sins'... 'My God bless you with this truth'... thanks! and every truth he wants to give me! Blessings from God to you also!
Grace and peace to you!
You know this statement could be written another way. Let me show you: Using scripture to incorporate a message that isn't the message that I prefer is also an interference to you, so the message that I prefer becomes obscure when this is done.
Seriously, I have talked about this many times. You can lineup 1,000 Christians and ask them if they believe in God the Father and in his son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost (what I call first level statement), you will find that 1,000 will say yes we believe in this statement. Then you take each one individually and start getting into the details (what I call the second and third levels of knowledge).
For instance: You ask the question, do you believe in the Holy Trinity? The answer is resoundingly YES. So the first level statement is agreeable to almost all, even Mormons. But then you ask a second level question like does the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father or the Son or from both. Now you have a split. 1/2 say only from the Father, 1/4 say only from the Son. 1/4 from both of them. Now you have at least 3 different kinds of Holy Trinitys. And you start asking, which Holy Trinity is the true one?
Well the scriptures are not a whole lot of help, because they can support all three views. This is a problem we face as Christians with regard to calling anyone a liar or one who interfers. The scriptures seem to support many positions and so you can never get to the bottom of the issue. You just about always have to agree to disagree.
Athanasia, the Bishop of Alexandria in 325 AD, and the author of the Athanasian creed, said at the end of the creed that any one that did not believe the Trinity in this way was anathema. At that time 1/2 of the Christian world believed in the Trinity and 1/2 did not. It took hundreds of years for the first level statment to be ironed out so that a majority of Christians believed in the Triniy, and hundreds of more years for the creed to be finally accepted as a major component of being a Christian. Today, 1700 years later, the first level statement is firmly established, but it was a lot different in the Christian world in the year 180 AD. That statement was not established.
Every major componant of the Christian faith has differences of opinions, maybe not necessarily at the statment level, but certainly at the second level and the third level differences has over the years drawn blood. That is why there is 600+ Christian churches. This in fact is what confused Joseph Smith in 1819. He went to many different Christian sects and they all said they had the truth, but yet they all had conflicting doctrines. It is still the same today. Why?
Seriously, I have talked about this many times. You can lineup 1,000 Christians and ask them if they believe in God the Father and in his son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost (what I call first level statement), you will find that 1,000 will say yes we believe in this statement. Then you take each one individually and start getting into the details (what I call the second and third levels of knowledge).
For instance: You ask the question, do you believe in the Holy Trinity? The answer is resoundingly YES. So the first level statement is agreeable to almost all, even Mormons. But then you ask a second level question like does the Holy Spirit proceed from the Father or the Son or from both. Now you have a split. 1/2 say only from the Father, 1/4 say only from the Son. 1/4 from both of them. Now you have at least 3 different kinds of Holy Trinitys. And you start asking, which Holy Trinity is the true one?
Well the scriptures are not a whole lot of help, because they can support all three views. This is a problem we face as Christians with regard to calling anyone a liar or one who interfers. The scriptures seem to support many positions and so you can never get to the bottom of the issue. You just about always have to agree to disagree.
Athanasia, the Bishop of Alexandria in 325 AD, and the author of the Athanasian creed, said at the end of the creed that any one that did not believe the Trinity in this way was anathema. At that time 1/2 of the Christian world believed in the Trinity and 1/2 did not. It took hundreds of years for the first level statment to be ironed out so that a majority of Christians believed in the Triniy, and hundreds of more years for the creed to be finally accepted as a major component of being a Christian. Today, 1700 years later, the first level statement is firmly established, but it was a lot different in the Christian world in the year 180 AD. That statement was not established.
Every major componant of the Christian faith has differences of opinions, maybe not necessarily at the statment level, but certainly at the second level and the third level differences has over the years drawn blood. That is why there is 600+ Christian churches. This in fact is what confused Joseph Smith in 1819. He went to many different Christian sects and they all said they had the truth, but yet they all had conflicting doctrines. It is still the same today. Why?
Acts 2:24, 2:32, 3:15, 3:26, 4:10, 5:30, 10:40, 13:30, 13:33, 13:37
Romans 6:4, 10:9
1 Cor. 15:15
2 Cor. 4:14
Gal. 1:1
Col. 2:12
1 Thes. 1:10
1 Pet. 1:21
These scriptures declare that God has raised his Son Jesus from the dead. So I am going to take a wild guess and say that God the Father of Jesus raised Jesus from the dead.
1 Peter 1:21 Who by him (Jesus) do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
My final answer is God, the Father of Jesus.
Romans 6:4, 10:9
1 Cor. 15:15
2 Cor. 4:14
Gal. 1:1
Col. 2:12
1 Thes. 1:10
1 Pet. 1:21
These scriptures declare that God has raised his Son Jesus from the dead. So I am going to take a wild guess and say that God the Father of Jesus raised Jesus from the dead.
1 Peter 1:21 Who by him (Jesus) do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
My final answer is God, the Father of Jesus.
my opinion, three reasons why so many groups...
wherever there is religious freedom, groups multiply...
heresies/divisions is a work of the flesh, so humans are tempted to divide...
the spirit guides believers into all truth, the process takes a lifetime, my opinion, people are at different stages/places...
wherever there is religious freedom, groups multiply...
heresies/divisions is a work of the flesh, so humans are tempted to divide...
the spirit guides believers into all truth, the process takes a lifetime, my opinion, people are at different stages/places...
Posted by just-me
Agreed. "Take a wild guess." LOL
1 Corinthians 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
Your turn to me ask a question.
Agreed. "Take a wild guess." LOL
1 Corinthians 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
Your turn to me ask a question.
The first mention of the name Eli is in Samuel when Hannah prayed for a baby and eventually conceive her son who became the prophet Samuel. Eli in that scripture was the high priest. In the New Testament Eli is the Aramaic name for God.
Aramaic turn in the Greek lexicon 2241. eli ay-lee' of Hebrew origin (410 with pronominal suffix); my God:-- Eli.
Hebrew=5941 `Eliy ay-lee' from 5927; lofty; Eli, an Israelite high-priest:--Eli.
Hebrew nameעלי=Ali is one who watches directs and gives
ע=eye
ל=shepherd staff
י=Arm with hand closed meaning handing out to another
Is it my turn now? Give me the go ahead if you agree.
Aramaic turn in the Greek lexicon 2241. eli ay-lee' of Hebrew origin (410 with pronominal suffix); my God:-- Eli.
Hebrew=5941 `Eliy ay-lee' from 5927; lofty; Eli, an Israelite high-priest:--Eli.
Hebrew nameעלי=Ali is one who watches directs and gives
ע=eye
ל=shepherd staff
י=Arm with hand closed meaning handing out to another
Is it my turn now? Give me the go ahead if you agree.
The "el' at the ending of any name means their name is equated with God like Samuel means "heard of God." Just thought you might like to know that. Emanuel means "God with us."
1694. Emmanouel em-man-oo-ale' of Hebrew origin (6005); God with us; Emmanuel, a name of Christ:--Emmanuel.
Hebrew=6005 `Immanuw'el im-maw-noo-ale' from 5973 and 410 with a pronominal suffix inserted; with us (is) God; Immanuel, a type name of Isaiah's son:--Immanuel.
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14
1694. Emmanouel em-man-oo-ale' of Hebrew origin (6005); God with us; Emmanuel, a name of Christ:--Emmanuel.
Hebrew=6005 `Immanuw'el im-maw-noo-ale' from 5973 and 410 with a pronominal suffix inserted; with us (is) God; Immanuel, a type name of Isaiah's son:--Immanuel.
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14
I would just like to mention that the first mention of the name Eli is in Genesis 1:1. The Hebrew name of The first creator God was Elohim. Eli is the singular of Elohim. So when Jesus was dying on the cross he actually cried out the name of his God. It is Eli or Eloi used in Mark 15:34.
I just thought it was interesting that Elohim, who is so neglected by scholars and church men was actually the name of the God of Jesus.
Now go ahead and ask your next question.
I just thought it was interesting that Elohim, who is so neglected by scholars and church men was actually the name of the God of Jesus.
Now go ahead and ask your next question.