-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Now you cannot have your cake and eat it.
Either sin is identifiable or it is not. Either you are righteous or you commit sin. Either you can walk in righteousness empowered by the love or Christ or you cannot.
Now inability is the doctrine you are a sinner until the day of resurrection and some would say sexual desire is sinful.
I hold sin is identifiable as said in scripture. Empowered by the love of Christ and communion with the Lord we can walk in righteousness. If we stumble we have an advocate with the Father, can confess our sin, and obtain forgiveness.
Now the story to date is hyper grace has claimed all sin is forgiven in Christ for both christians and non-christians.
Looking at the law is condemnation. If you sin after being a christian it is immediately forgiven, without the need to repent.
Sin awareness is gone, along with guilt and your conscience. You do not actually know if you are sinning.
Non hyper grace hold you can be righteous, and walk in righteousness, by communion with Jesus. Sin is no longer the issue because all past sin is forgiven, and you are being healed so you can walk in purity and holiness. As it is arrogant to say you have arrived you will not know, but you will find conviction for sin is rare if at all. The law is not an issue because you walk in righteousness.
Now the hyper-grace group claim this is a false righteousness, because it ignores real sin in the heart and is earning salvation. The problem is the believers are walking and trusting in Christ and measure their walk by their conscience and the word. So unless sin can be shown to be real, they are actually right.
I suspect the reality is hyper-grace believers have a dirty cup on the inside and do not know how to resolve it.
They also believe it is impossible to be without sin in this life, even if Jesus, John the Baptist and the Apostles were.
Either sin is identifiable or it is not. Either you are righteous or you commit sin. Either you can walk in righteousness empowered by the love or Christ or you cannot.
Now inability is the doctrine you are a sinner until the day of resurrection and some would say sexual desire is sinful.
I hold sin is identifiable as said in scripture. Empowered by the love of Christ and communion with the Lord we can walk in righteousness. If we stumble we have an advocate with the Father, can confess our sin, and obtain forgiveness.
Now the story to date is hyper grace has claimed all sin is forgiven in Christ for both christians and non-christians.
Looking at the law is condemnation. If you sin after being a christian it is immediately forgiven, without the need to repent.
Sin awareness is gone, along with guilt and your conscience. You do not actually know if you are sinning.
Non hyper grace hold you can be righteous, and walk in righteousness, by communion with Jesus. Sin is no longer the issue because all past sin is forgiven, and you are being healed so you can walk in purity and holiness. As it is arrogant to say you have arrived you will not know, but you will find conviction for sin is rare if at all. The law is not an issue because you walk in righteousness.
Now the hyper-grace group claim this is a false righteousness, because it ignores real sin in the heart and is earning salvation. The problem is the believers are walking and trusting in Christ and measure their walk by their conscience and the word. So unless sin can be shown to be real, they are actually right.
I suspect the reality is hyper-grace believers have a dirty cup on the inside and do not know how to resolve it.
They also believe it is impossible to be without sin in this life, even if Jesus, John the Baptist and the Apostles were.
L
When a believer learns how to properly identify himself as a "son" (because that is who we are NOW) he knows he has to be Christ centered to SEE the truth of his standing. He learns to put off identifying with the old self that is sin centered and continually AND BY FAITH identify himself with Christ - who is God centered.
No longer called sinners but sons and saints. The sheep of His pasture. This takes a daily learning to walk by faith. There is no contradiction if you see it as it is written in the Bible. It does take a proper "repentance" a change of mind to agree with God. HE says we are NOW SONS IN Christ. Made the righteousness of God IN Christ.
By faith we accept the gift of grace and no condemnation because we are now IN Christ. Sons who are placed in right standing. So we have to agree with God about who Christ made us even though we feel like rotten sinners sometimes. (By faith) accept the truth and it will NOT allow satan to have an advantage over us since he is the accuser of the brethren who uses condemnation to defeat us. Resting IN the finished work of Christ....It is called the good fight of faith.
Matthew 26:28, for instance, between NIV and KJV... the two words are used interchangeably.
The Gnostics did not repent, they did not have to. Their spirit had 'supernatural knowledge' which lifted them upwards, their flesh could sin as much as it liked. We sin and we do repent. We are therefore at the other end of the spectrum to them.
Its time you learned what the Gnostics really believed.
Its time you learned what the Gnostics really believed.
One can follow gnostic approach to faith. If you say sin is not the issue, only praise and good works are self righteousness, you are very close to the same compromise. We hear teaching like you do not have to repent, just agree with God it was a bad idea, not ask for forgiveness, because it is already forgiven, not confess anything, ignore conscience and the law, and only focus on Jesus. But then this Jesus is without the gospels as they are before the cross and apply only to the Jews.
So though the language appears different than the gnostics, it ignores all the same issues and encourages a "I have arrived " attitude without delivery of the goods.
The problem with these points is they all come from discussions over the last 2 months, and positions taken, so this is what in general this group actually believe. It can be denied, but the only way to deny it is actually say honestly what is accepted and what is not, not just the continual white wash statements.
When I talked to muslims they would do the same. They are not murdering innocents, they are executing traitors to Islam, so it is justified. But this is just changing the language of morality, not the actual morality below it.
So though the language appears different than the gnostics, it ignores all the same issues and encourages a "I have arrived " attitude without delivery of the goods.
The problem with these points is they all come from discussions over the last 2 months, and positions taken, so this is what in general this group actually believe. It can be denied, but the only way to deny it is actually say honestly what is accepted and what is not, not just the continual white wash statements.
When I talked to muslims they would do the same. They are not murdering innocents, they are executing traitors to Islam, so it is justified. But this is just changing the language of morality, not the actual morality below it.
On the subject of labeling it is actually important.
A label if used correctly lets readers know the area of belief or background a particular statement is said in.
Like if I talk about baptism for a baptist we mean full immersion believers baptism, but for an anglican, we could men infant baptism or adult baptism, making the sign of a cross on the forehead. The beliefs behind the ceremonies are also different.
So a calvanist is helpful, though the opposite grouping is less clear as there are many variations.
So labels can help if people want to be honest and open, but obviously a lot do not.
A label if used correctly lets readers know the area of belief or background a particular statement is said in.
Like if I talk about baptism for a baptist we mean full immersion believers baptism, but for an anglican, we could men infant baptism or adult baptism, making the sign of a cross on the forehead. The beliefs behind the ceremonies are also different.
So a calvanist is helpful, though the opposite grouping is less clear as there are many variations.
So labels can help if people want to be honest and open, but obviously a lot do not.
All this gnostic stuff is just to circumvent the fact that they have no scripture to back up what is said in order to make it look like it is gnostic thinking... Often some people will "twist" what is said in order to make it "appear" it's saying something else. Or...they don't agree with a teaching and then of course you are in heretic land then...it's the nature of the beast...
In essence..these posts are not for them because if they are still saying the opposite of what someone is saying even after seeing it over 50x times...there's something wrong in Denmark.
I mostly just ignore them and give out scriptures and other teaching sites in order for the readers to read for themselves what is really being said. They can be Berean-like and check to see what is really being said.
The Holy Spirit in the seeking readers will reveal Jesus and His finished work on their behalf! We trust in Him only and rest that He who began a good work in them, will finish it.....
In essence..these posts are not for them because if they are still saying the opposite of what someone is saying even after seeing it over 50x times...there's something wrong in Denmark.
I mostly just ignore them and give out scriptures and other teaching sites in order for the readers to read for themselves what is really being said. They can be Berean-like and check to see what is really being said.
The Holy Spirit in the seeking readers will reveal Jesus and His finished work on their behalf! We trust in Him only and rest that He who began a good work in them, will finish it.....
I'm giving you a lot of good scriptures here. Again, pay attention....
Isaiah 59:21
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever." =Everlasting Covenant.
A New Covenant, a New Testament, even a promise of the Father. The blood of Christ speaks.
Isaiah 59:21
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever." =Everlasting Covenant.
A New Covenant, a New Testament, even a promise of the Father. The blood of Christ speaks.
I'm giving you a lot of good scriptures here. Again, pay attention....
Isaiah 59:21
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever." =Everlasting Covenant.
A New Covenant, a New Testament, even a promise of the Father. The blood of Christ speaks.
Isaiah 59:21
As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever." =Everlasting Covenant.
A New Covenant, a New Testament, even a promise of the Father. The blood of Christ speaks.
Ah, ye old Romans 7 excuse for ongoing sin. Read Romans 6 and 8 which might clear up some of that confusion. Better yet, read this post #1 and #2 which explains how Paul said we can indeed be set free from that condition.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130611-law-god-not-problem-its-sin.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/130611-law-god-not-problem-its-sin.html