A case for Predestination and Election for Arminians!

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DiscipleWilliam

Guest
#1
YOU DIDN'T CHOOSE GOD, GOD CHOSE YOU

Exodus 6:7I will take you as My people, and I will be your God. Then you shall know that I [am] the LORD your God who brings you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

Deut 7:6 For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth.

John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the power to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: (13) who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 17:1-2 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, (2) "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 9:29 And as Isaiah said before: "Unless the LORD of Sabbath had left us a seed, We would have become like Sodom, And we would have been made like Gomorrah."


{If God had not elected some to salvation, all would be lost; had God not chosen some, none would be saved.}

1Pet 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Romans 9:11-13 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), (12) it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." (13) As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

Romans 11:5-7 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (6) And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. (7) What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

1 Kings 19:18 Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him."

Psa 33:12 Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

Psa 65:4 Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple.

Psalms 106:4-5 Remember me, O LORD, with the favor You have toward Your people; Oh, visit me with Your salvation, (5) That I may see the benefit of Your chosen ones, That I may rejoice in the gladness of Your nation, That I may glory with Your inheritance.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (2) elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.

Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Ephesians 1:11-12 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, (12) that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

2Tim 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

1 Corinthians 1:27-29 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; (28) and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, (29) that no flesh should glory in His presence.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

John 10:2-3 "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. (3) "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

Romans 11:1-11 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. (2) God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, (3) "LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"? (4) But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." (5) Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (6) And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
(7) What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (8) Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day." (9) And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them. (10) Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always."
(11) I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#2
 
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DiscipleWilliam

Guest
#3
10-4...roger that...
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#4
Mr. Will, it appears this place is eerily quiet.

 
D

DiscipleWilliam

Guest
#5
Where did everybody go...Case closed I guess...
 

Attachments

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Abiding

Guest
#6
Hmmm what can you do with all that? Someone will be in shortly with a emotional/philosophical problem.
I predict it will start with...Ok i guess you believe that God is.......
Because noones happy these days unless we demote God and elevate man.


 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#7
I'm not sure about this guys.

 
A

Abiding

Guest
#9
I spose you think all of this is for His will and good pleasure.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#10
One problem I see is that most who would say something to support their position and attempting to refute it.

stopped reading after the 5th sentence or think they already know the TRUE meaning of those verses and no matter what you say unless you are blunt and rude will think you are agreeing with them when you just told them that they are wrong and that "Faith Healing" is a false doctrine and it does not matter how much FAITH a person has if GOD wills it GOD will help the person by giving them MORE faith.

Of course they may comment on my post cuz it is less then 5 sentences ;)
 
Aug 25, 2011
689
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#11
The Lord made the righteous for the day of the rioghteous, the Lord also made the wicked for the day of the wicked. OH MY! were doomed, were all doomed! What must I do to be saved? Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved! Oh wow! thank you so much Christ Jesus for saving me. OMG Jesus you rock! I love you man.

<plays harmonica>
<praise's Jesus>
<sings> Beautiful words,wonderful words, wonderful words of life.
<hears a banjo in the background>
<starts danceing>
<sings> Sweetly echo the gospel call. Jesus only savior, sanctified forever. Beautiful words, wonderful words, wonderful words of life.
 
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#12
I refute all your scripture by the simple line...

"Your saying GOD IS MEAN!"


Insert similar philosophical ramblings below.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#13
YOU DIDN'T CHOOSE GOD, GOD CHOSE YOU

Exodus 6:7I will take you as My people, and I will be your God. Then you shall know that I [am] the LORD your God who brings you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

Deut 7:6 For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth.

John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the power to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: (13) who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 17:1-2 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, (2) "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 9:29 And as Isaiah said before: "Unless the LORD of Sabbath had left us a seed, We would have become like Sodom, And we would have been made like Gomorrah."


{If God had not elected some to salvation, all would be lost; had God not chosen some, none would be saved.}

1Pet 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Romans 9:11-13 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), (12) it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." (13) As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

Romans 11:5-7 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (6) And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. (7) What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

1 Kings 19:18 Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him."

Psa 33:12 Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

Psa 65:4 Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple.

Psalms 106:4-5 Remember me, O LORD, with the favor You have toward Your people; Oh, visit me with Your salvation, (5) That I may see the benefit of Your chosen ones, That I may rejoice in the gladness of Your nation, That I may glory with Your inheritance.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (2) elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.

Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Ephesians 1:11-12 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, (12) that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

2Tim 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

1 Corinthians 1:27-29 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; (28) and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, (29) that no flesh should glory in His presence.

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.

John 10:2-3 "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. (3) "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

Romans 11:1-11 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. (2) God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, (3) "LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"? (4) But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." (5) Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (6) And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
(7) What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (8) Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day." (9) And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them. (10) Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always."
(11) I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.

I LOVE YOU BROTHER WILLIAM

SOLAS!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#15
Hmmm what can you do with all that? Someone will be in shortly with a emotional/philosophical problem.
I predict it will start with...Ok i guess you believe that God is.......
Because noones happy these days unless we demote God and elevate man.



of a truth Mikey.....
i reckon this thread is for the Bible readers.
 
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#16
Wait I dont get the thread title...

Is predestination and Election only for Arminians?

LOLZ! Ironic.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#17
I refute all your scripture by the simple line...

"Your saying GOD IS MEAN!"

Insert similar philosophical ramblings below.


THE GOOD DOCTRINE COPS HAVE ARRIVED!
 
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#19
For those of us who are simple minded and believe the truth with a humble and contrite heart and receive the kingdom as a little child by faith, this is a beautiful way to understand predestination.

Jesus Christ is the only one who was predestined by the Father. He was predestined to be the Son of God and to be the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world. No one person has ever been predestined outside of Christ and the righteousness of God, no not one. The Lamb was slain for the sins of man before man was even created, making Christ the only one who is predestined. When anyone or whosoever believes in the righteousness of God and in the name of Jesus Christ, that person is imputed God's righteousness and is placed securely in Christ.

Being placed in Christ becomes the place of predestination for the believer and is where the believer has been called, justified and glorified. This is the place where the believer is foreknown and conformed into the image of God's Son. This is the place where the believer receives his adoption as the good pleasure and counsel of God's will. This is where the believer is hid with Christ in God with all other believers who have the righteousness of God imputed to them. This the place of God's eternal purpose that He has purposed in Christ. This is where the believer is blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ. This is the place that each believer experiences his election by grace through faith. This is the place of the believer's inheritance in Christ and the place that we look upon Him by faith.

This is the place that God has set apart for whosoever would believe upon His Son whom He sent. We are only predestined in Christ (86 times in Ephesians alone). In this place of predestination we have eternal life and have been sealed until we put on our new in-corrupt bodies of redemption and immortality and no man can take or pluck us from this place, because it is secured by the hand of the Father and the hand of the Son. In this place of predestination we have fellowship with the Father and with the Son. In this place the wicked one touches us not and we will reign with Christ forever. This the place that we receive and perceive all the promises of God as yea and amen, and this is the place that the word of God will never pass away. Here in this place we are encouraged as we sit in heavenly places in Christ setting our affections on things above and having access to the throne of God's mercy and grace. Predestination is a place where we have been called, justified, and glorified and are known with the Father, with the Son and with one another. There is no election or predestination without Christ.

If you don't believe this, then you don't believe the scriptures. I'm right on this and some of you are all wet and others are just covered with slime or mire. Now deal with it! You can also take your 'amillennialism' and throw it in the trash bin where it belongs because it does nothing to honor God's body, magnify Christ or glorify God. Make sure you hit the ignore button every time you even begin to imagine or think about the possibility that 'amillennialism' is true or might be true and treat it like a rattlesnake that is ready to sink its venomous teeth into your flesh.
 
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#20
Red33 said:
Jesus Christ is the only one who was predestinated by the Father. He was predestinated to be the Son of God and to be the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world. No one person has ever been predestinated outside of Christ and the righteousness of God, no not one..
Well, we could believe you Red. Or we could believe the Word of God.

It's a toughie, but I'll go with the Word.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

them - G5128
&#964;&#959;&#965;&#769;&#964;&#959;&#965;&#962;
toutous
too'-tooce
Accusative plural masculine of G3778; these (persons, as object of verb or preposition): - such, them, these, this.

The people (plural) that are called He justified, and those same people are PREDESTINATED.

Are you saying that this verse is ONLY about the predestination of Jesus?

(Ephesians 1:4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

us -G2248
&#951;&#788;&#956;&#945;&#834;&#962;
he&#772;mas
hay-mas'
Accusative plural of G1473; us: - our, us, we.Looks like WE were chosen by God before the foundations of the world.

(Ephesians 1:5) Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Of course the above verse entirely refutes your theory in one swoop. We are the ones PREDESTINATED unto the adoption BY Christ.

But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth&#8221; (2 Thess. 2:13)

Again, the ones who are chosen from the beginning are the ELECT. It's not talking about Jesus.

Wow...how did we type that all out so quick eh?