A Childish Question? but looking forward to a response...

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#21
When I had struggled with this someone brought up this common but helpful illustration.

Picture yourself coming up to a sign reading ''Whosoever will may enter for eternal life''. After passing through you look back at the other side of the sign which reads ''chosen from the foundation of the world''.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
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#22
The best explanation I heard was;

A teacher will tell his student "You will fail".

The student will fail because he did not work hard. The teacher knows from experience.

Now God does not need experience to know who will pass and who will fail the test. The results we get of the test is our own doing.
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
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#23
it says many are called, but how many are chosen a few. It reminds me of the parables of the good ground, stony ground ect
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#24
View attachment 42645

Appreciate the succinct answer...but no clearer...sorry!! <><
the goal of my answer was to be true...not to be understandable...

my intention is not to be dismissive...his ways are higher than our ways...i don't quite get it either...
 
Feb 17, 2013
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#25
Joshua 24:15[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And if it seem evil unto you to serve the [/FONT]Lord[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the [/FONT]Lord[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Clearly it is choice. Our choice, God knows who will choose Him and who will not. God is just and righteous and will not do anything that can bring charge against that. Yes, He could destroy all those He knows will not choose Him. But, then they could argue that they weren't given a chance. So, He will not do it. That is why He will have a judgement day and there can be no accusation against Him. If we did not have choice, then why a judgement.[/FONT]
 
S

SpaceCowboy

Guest
#26
Question: I do believe in free will and i have read of 'pre-destination'. Are we then ALL pre-destined? God is all knowing, so He knows who will and will not be saved? (take up the offer if you like...) Free will then is really whether we choose to follow Him or not but is available to all...AND if He creates us all...does that mean He creates some without the ability to love Him? surely...this is not possible....? Help!!
I like to try to start with Gods perspective with questions like these, and my standard for God is that he's unchanging and all knowing. The great I AM. So nothing is impossible for God if that makes sense. So, then since God is that way, then we are all predestined from the jump. Reasons and details are not for us to know.

But that doesn't discount freewill. Since God is God, he's beyond us and he's beyond time. He is Infinite. All things consist through Him and are created by Him for Him. Time is an illusion from Sin. Since this World has death in it and were conscience of our mortality, we experience time. Just as Einstein proved, its all relative. So then to us, we have freewill because of the difference between the natural world and the higher heavens.

But for someone to suggest that there's anything that humans have or think or experience or anything that has the gift of being able to exist is outside Gods hand or power is gravely mistaken.
 
M

MidniteWelder

Guest
#27
So, why does He not do something about that...coz He could. <><
Well He kinda did do something about it didn't he?
He came down to talk to us and relate to us with a one on one level since the people weren't getting it, which had never been done before since the history of time in that way.
And they said kill him anyway.
So now what, what else is left to do, what more could he have done?

Pilate- I have examined him in your presence and have found no basis for your charges against him. 15Neither has Herod, for he sent him back to us; as you can see, he has done nothing to deserve death.
Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again.

The People- 21But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!”
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#28
Joshua 24:15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.


Clearly it is choice. Our choice, God knows who will choose Him and who will not. God is just and righteous and will not do anything that can bring charge against that. Yes, He could destroy all those He knows will not choose Him. But, then they could argue that they weren't given a chance. So, He will not do it. That is why He will have a judgement day and there can be no accusation against Him. If we did not have choice, then why a judgement.
Our choice?

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (Mat 16:15-17)

Just a simple choice uh huh...

All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
(Luk 10:22-24)

Our choice is limited to what He has revealed to us by His grace and mercy.
 
Feb 9, 2010
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#29
Predestination is not true and it goes against the nature of God.I will point out why they are wrong and it is a misinterpretation of scriptures.

God already had all things planned before He laid down the foundation of the world.

The Bible says that God calls things that have not already happened as though they already happened for if it is a future event God wants to happen it will come to pass without failure.

If it is a future event that God has planned it is the same as it already happened in the beginning,which everything already happened in the beginning for God already had everything planned before He created the world.

The Bible says that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,but we know it did not actually happen until 4000 years later because God calls things that have not already happened as though they already happened.

When the Bible says we are predestined to salvation it does not mean that God picks and chooses who will be saved but God had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world so it is the same as the saints already having salvation in the beginning because God calls things that have not already happened as though they already happened,and that salvation is to mankind in general whoever chooses that salvation.

God picks and chooses without our willingly choosing salvation and to follow Jesus goes against the nature of God that is good.

The Bible says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God so everybody is in the same boat.

The Bible says that Jesus lights everybody that come in to this world so everybody has a chance to see the light of Jesus if they choose.

The Bible says that God is not willing that any should perish but ALL come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved.

The Bible says that many are called but few are chosen which a person would have to be called while on earth,so God chooses when he knows a person is seeking the truth and knows their heart and then He chooses them but only some people actually make it to heaven for many are called but few are chosen.

According to this scripture above if God picks and chooses then all that He called would be chosen for why God call someone that did not have a chance to be saved,they would all be saved that He called,but it says many are called but few are chosen which could only happen on this earth.

The Bible says that whosoever will can be saved and Jesus told everybody to repent not certain people.

And there is many more scriptures .

God does not pick and choose who will be saved in the beginning but is a misinterpretation of the scripture we are predestinated to salvation which means that God already had the plan to give salvation to mankind before He laid down the foundation of the world so it is the same as if the saints already have salvation in the beginning and that salvation is to mankind in general.

Just like the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world but it did not actually happen until 4000 years later,the saints have salvation in the beginning but did not actually happen until 4000 years later when the Lamb came and gave that salvation to whoever chooses that salvation.

While we are on the subject of misinterpretation of scriptures I want to point out the controversy between saved by works and not saved by works,and there is not a contradiction.

Not saved by works means we are not saved by any works that we can do to try to get to heaven apart from Jesus Christ or to try to do works to get to heaven apart from the works of the Spirit.

Saved by works means we have to have works to have faith activated in our life which are not works of our self but works of the Spirit which we should do anyway and have to do.