A day is a year in prophecy

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D

doulos

Guest
#1
The language of prophecy wherein we calculate "each day for a year" was well known by those of "the former age" and their fathers, and this method repeatedly confirms that we may indeed be living in the end times.
Ezekiel 4:6: And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

The mathematics combined with the application of sound hermeneutic rules further advances this textually sound conclusion. Let's explore some examples employing the uniform application of these principles.
The following is a study of just 7 of the problems from Daniel and Revelation employing the language of prophecy wherein we count "each day for a year".

A SAMPLE OF JOHN'S MATH

1. How about a problem that a 10 year old could solve:
Revelation 12:6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

Many will agree that Israel is the "woman" in the context of this verse. If we start with a presumption that the end of the 1260 days was when Israel came out of "the wilderness" or out from among the nations, returning home and declaring her independence in 1948, and subtract 1260 years ("each day for a year"), we arrive at 688. This is commonly understood to be the founding year of the Islamic mosque, the Dome of the Rock.

2.Let's try another:
Revelation 13:5: And there was given unto him [the LBL beast] a mouthspeaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.

The LBL Islamic beast "continued" in Jerusalem until the Israelis retook the Holy City in 1967, governing there again for the first time in 2573 years. There is an average of 30.44 days in a month, multiplied by 42 months = 1278.5 days (as years). Subtracting this from 1967 we arrive at …. 688.5. Once again, the Dome of the Rock.

A SAMPLE OF DANIEL'S MATH

In this first problem alone we will find that in 3 consecutive verses Daniel pegged, exact to the year, the relationship of 2 separate events, spanning 483 Hebrew years, that were both in his future, but came to pass just as he prophesied.

3. Is Jesus the Messiah?
Daniel 9:24-26 (KJV): Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Almost 100 years after Gabriel spoke to Daniel, a special decree was granted by Artaxerxes I to Nehemiah (444-445 BC). This is the ONLY decree recorded in the Bible that gave the Jews permission to "restore Jerusalem and rebuild its walls". The Messiah, Jesus, was "cut off" or crucified in 32 or 33AD. But are those 69 weeks 69 sevens of years? If so, then we have 69 x 7 or 483 Hebrew years. Using a multiplier of .9857 (360/365.24), to reconcile Daniel's Hebrew year "language" with the solar year units of our modern historical record, yields: 483 x .9857 = 476 solar years. Artaxerxes' decree in 444 BC + 476 years = 32 AD, the cross right to the year.

4. Maybe another Old Testament problem is in order:
Daniel 12:11: And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Sacrifices were suspended three times in the Old Testament: once before Daniel (Chronicles 28:24-25), once during the Babylonian captivity in 583 BC (Chronicles 36:19 and Ezra 3:6), and once, about four hundred years later, by the Greek king Antiochus Epiphanies. So to which event do you suppose the Lord might be referring? Well, to whom was this prophecy given? To Daniel. Result: we have every reason to believe that the Lord was referring to sacrifices that were abolished during Daniel's own lifetime: to an abolition of sacrifices to which Daniel could relate!

These Old Testament day/years would also be something that Daniel could relate to or 1290 - 360 day - Hebrew years, each year being equal to .9857 solar year. 1290 x .9857=1271.5 solar years. Subtracting 583 (because it is BC) we get .... 688.5 AD. A quick Yahoo search confirms that this was the year that construction began on the Dome of the Rock.


Bishop Sophronious may offer some additional insight: "When Khalifah Omar entered Jerusalem in 639AD, he was met by Sophronius, Bishop of the Jerusalem Church, who showed him around the city. Seeing the temple mount (then in rubble), Omar declared that he was going to build a memorial to Muhammad on the original site of the temple of God. Sophronius exclaimed in horror, "Verily, this is the Abomination of Desolation as spoken of by Daniel the prophet", and it now stands in the holy place. Though Sophronius was a very old man of about 80, Khalifah Omar put him in prison and to forced labor, the severities of which killed him."

5. Let's try the very next verse:
Daniel 12:12: Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

1335 x .9857 = 1315.9 - 583 (BC) = 732.9 AD Rounding down we get 732 AD. A quick Yahoo search determines that this was the year of the Battle of Tours, France. This is considered by many to be the most important battle, for Christianity, of the entire Christian era. Charles "Martel" (the hammer), against the odds, repelled and defeated the spread of Islam in its conquest of the world, as it headed up through Europe. This battle was the turning point in the onslaught of Islam delivering the mortal head wound to their advance, and killing the literal head of the advancing army Emir Abd er Rahman. "Without his leadership and guidance, the other commanders were unable to even agree on a commander to lead them back into battle the following morning. The effect of the death of Abdul Rahman on both Islamic and world history was profound." ".... according to one unidentified Arab, 'That army went through all places like a desolating storm.' sacking and capturing the city of Bordeaux, and then defeating the army of Duke Odo of Aquitaine at the Battle of the River Garonne — where the western chroniclers state, 'God alone knows the number of the slain' and Odo fled to Charles Martel, seeking help."

It wouldn't be until well over a millennium later, that Western oil wealth would heal the wound of the leopard-bear-lion beast so that its image could begin the second Jihad, in the mold of the first Jihad. Daniel's successive kingdom beasts of lion, bear and leopard (which Bible scholars recognize as Babylon, Medo-Pursia, and Greece) are today united in antichrist, as the composite leopard-bear-lion - BEAST - we find in Revelation 13. This same geographical region today is occupied by Iran, Iraq, and Syria/Lebanon. Mathematically and textually this verse works perfectly.

These last two problems launch from the very same date and pin the Battle of Tours and dome of the rock, both over a thousand years after the prophecy, and at the same time unite the books of Daniel and Revelation to the year 688, the Dome of the Rock - the abomination of desolation - God's symbol in prophecy for Isalm.

MORE FROM JOHN

6. This is perhaps my favorite verse: Revelation 11:2: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.

Again the city of Jerusalem was trodden by, or controlled by, Gentiles until the Israelis retook the city in 1967. Again 30.44 days in a month, multiplied by 42 months = 1278.5 days (as years). Subtracting this from 1967 we arrive at … 688.5.

Further study of the above verse may well demonstrate God's wonderfully wry sense of humor. The Solomonic Temple was built over a threshingfloor, and on that bedrock the Arc of the Covenant, or Holy or Holies, was kept. It is obvious that this stone, in the Dome of the Rock, would never have served as a threshingfloor as recovery of grain would have been impossible.

Today the little gazebo aptly named the Dome of the Tablets, or Dome of the Spirits likely covers the smooth flat threshingfloor of the old Temple site.

The Solomonic Temple - "Court of the Gentiles" where even unwashed slaves were allowed - is where the Dome of the Rock was constructed. The old Eastern Gate lines up perfectly with the little "dome of the tablets".

In other words the Dome of the Rock was built in the court outside of the Solomonic temple site, that was given to the Gentiles! The Muslims built the Dome of the Rock over the wrong rock! Does God have an awesome sense of humor or what?

7. Revelation 11:3: And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

1948 - 1260 = 688 .... the Dome of the Rock.

The Bible defines the two witnesses as the Jewish and Christian church, who were religiously exiled from Israel by Islam, marked symbolically, specifically, and repeatedly above, by the Dome of the Rock. Employing the scriptural adjacency rule of hermeneutics we learn:
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in My right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Rom 11:24 For if thou [the Gentiles] wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree [the Jews]: how much more
shall these [the Jews], which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Many of the "former age" understood this interpretation of the two witnesses:
Matthew Henry: "Some think these two witnesses are Enoch and Elias, who are to return to the earth for a time: others, the church of the believing Jews and that of the Gentiles ... "
Or more recently Jamieson Faucett and Brown "..., I think the twofold Church, Jewish and Gentile, may be meant by the two candlesticks represented by the two witnesses ... "

1948 may well have marked the end of the Christian era, and entry into the era of the "time of the end". Few would argue that the Church and society have gone evermore rapidly downhill ever since. The end of the Christian era is studied more thoroughly at this link.

To see this view in more detail may I suggest one do a google search for “the False Prophet a free online book”

Are the math problems above and their solutions merely a series of accidents or flukes?

NOTES ABOUT MULTIPLIERS:

You can Yahoo the fact that a common understanding of the average number of days in a year is 365.24. Dividing this number by 12 we get 30.436666. If we round this number shorter we can arrive at the 30.44 average days in a month used above.

In regard to the multiplier for Hebrew to Solar years, taking the 360 day Hebrew year, and dividing it by the same 365.24 average days in a solar year above, we get .9856532. Rounding this number shorter we arrive at .9857 which is the multiplier we used above to convert Daniel's Hebrew years to the solar years of our historical record.

Beyond these adjustments the rest of the math above could be performed by a child.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#2
I agree we should use the year day principle for prophetic time such as:

42 months, 1260 days, time times and half a time
70 weeks in Daniel 9
2300 Days in Daniel 8
1290 & 1335 in Daniel 12
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
589
113
#3
The language of prophecy wherein we calculate "each day for a year" was well known by those of "the former age" and their fathers, and this method repeatedly confirms that we may indeed be living in the end times.
Ezekiel 4:6: And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

The mathematics combined with the application of sound hermeneutic rules further advances this textually sound conclusion. Let's explore some examples employing the uniform application of these principles.
The following is a study of just 7 of the problems from Daniel and Revelation employing the language of prophecy wherein we count "each day for a year".

A SAMPLE OF JOHN'S MATH

1. How about a problem that a 10 year old could solve:
Revelation 12:6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

Many will agree that Israel is the "woman" in the context of this verse. If we start with a presumption that the end of the 1260 days was when Israel came out of "the wilderness" or out from among the nations, returning home and declaring her independence in 1948, and subtract 1260 years ("each day for a year"), we arrive at 688. This is commonly understood to be the founding year of the Islamic mosque, the Dome of the Rock.

2.Let's try another:
Revelation 13:5: And there was given unto him [the LBL beast] a mouthspeaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.

The LBL Islamic beast "continued" in Jerusalem until the Israelis retook the Holy City in 1967, governing there again for the first time in 2573 years. There is an average of 30.44 days in a month, multiplied by 42 months = 1278.5 days (as years). Subtracting this from 1967 we arrive at …. 688.5. Once again, the Dome of the Rock.

A SAMPLE OF DANIEL'S MATH

In this first problem alone we will find that in 3 consecutive verses Daniel pegged, exact to the year, the relationship of 2 separate events, spanning 483 Hebrew years, that were both in his future, but came to pass just as he prophesied.

3. Is Jesus the Messiah?
Daniel 9:24-26 (KJV): Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Almost 100 years after Gabriel spoke to Daniel, a special decree was granted by Artaxerxes I to Nehemiah (444-445 BC). This is the ONLY decree recorded in the Bible that gave the Jews permission to "restore Jerusalem and rebuild its walls". The Messiah, Jesus, was "cut off" or crucified in 32 or 33AD. But are those 69 weeks 69 sevens of years? If so, then we have 69 x 7 or 483 Hebrew years. Using a multiplier of .9857 (360/365.24), to reconcile Daniel's Hebrew year "language" with the solar year units of our modern historical record, yields: 483 x .9857 = 476 solar years. Artaxerxes' decree in 444 BC + 476 years = 32 AD, the cross right to the year.

4. Maybe another Old Testament problem is in order:
Daniel 12:11: And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Sacrifices were suspended three times in the Old Testament: once before Daniel (Chronicles 28:24-25), once during the Babylonian captivity in 583 BC (Chronicles 36:19 and Ezra 3:6), and once, about four hundred years later, by the Greek king Antiochus Epiphanies. So to which event do you suppose the Lord might be referring? Well, to whom was this prophecy given? To Daniel. Result: we have every reason to believe that the Lord was referring to sacrifices that were abolished during Daniel's own lifetime: to an abolition of sacrifices to which Daniel could relate!

These Old Testament day/years would also be something that Daniel could relate to or 1290 - 360 day - Hebrew years, each year being equal to .9857 solar year. 1290 x .9857=1271.5 solar years. Subtracting 583 (because it is BC) we get .... 688.5 AD. A quick Yahoo search confirms that this was the year that construction began on the Dome of the Rock.


Bishop Sophronious may offer some additional insight: "When Khalifah Omar entered Jerusalem in 639AD, he was met by Sophronius, Bishop of the Jerusalem Church, who showed him around the city. Seeing the temple mount (then in rubble), Omar declared that he was going to build a memorial to Muhammad on the original site of the temple of God. Sophronius exclaimed in horror, "Verily, this is the Abomination of Desolation as spoken of by Daniel the prophet", and it now stands in the holy place. Though Sophronius was a very old man of about 80, Khalifah Omar put him in prison and to forced labor, the severities of which killed him."

5. Let's try the very next verse:
Daniel 12:12: Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

1335 x .9857 = 1315.9 - 583 (BC) = 732.9 AD Rounding down we get 732 AD. A quick Yahoo search determines that this was the year of the Battle of Tours, France. This is considered by many to be the most important battle, for Christianity, of the entire Christian era. Charles "Martel" (the hammer), against the odds, repelled and defeated the spread of Islam in its conquest of the world, as it headed up through Europe. This battle was the turning point in the onslaught of Islam delivering the mortal head wound to their advance, and killing the literal head of the advancing army Emir Abd er Rahman. "Without his leadership and guidance, the other commanders were unable to even agree on a commander to lead them back into battle the following morning. The effect of the death of Abdul Rahman on both Islamic and world history was profound." ".... according to one unidentified Arab, 'That army went through all places like a desolating storm.' sacking and capturing the city of Bordeaux, and then defeating the army of Duke Odo of Aquitaine at the Battle of the River Garonne — where the western chroniclers state, 'God alone knows the number of the slain' and Odo fled to Charles Martel, seeking help."

It wouldn't be until well over a millennium later, that Western oil wealth would heal the wound of the leopard-bear-lion beast so that its image could begin the second Jihad, in the mold of the first Jihad. Daniel's successive kingdom beasts of lion, bear and leopard (which Bible scholars recognize as Babylon, Medo-Pursia, and Greece) are today united in antichrist, as the composite leopard-bear-lion - BEAST - we find in Revelation 13. This same geographical region today is occupied by Iran, Iraq, and Syria/Lebanon. Mathematically and textually this verse works perfectly.

These last two problems launch from the very same date and pin the Battle of Tours and dome of the rock, both over a thousand years after the prophecy, and at the same time unite the books of Daniel and Revelation to the year 688, the Dome of the Rock - the abomination of desolation - God's symbol in prophecy for Isalm.

MORE FROM JOHN

6. This is perhaps my favorite verse: Revelation 11:2: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.

Again the city of Jerusalem was trodden by, or controlled by, Gentiles until the Israelis retook the city in 1967. Again 30.44 days in a month, multiplied by 42 months = 1278.5 days (as years). Subtracting this from 1967 we arrive at … 688.5.

Further study of the above verse may well demonstrate God's wonderfully wry sense of humor. The Solomonic Temple was built over a threshingfloor, and on that bedrock the Arc of the Covenant, or Holy or Holies, was kept. It is obvious that this stone, in the Dome of the Rock, would never have served as a threshingfloor as recovery of grain would have been impossible.

Today the little gazebo aptly named the Dome of the Tablets, or Dome of the Spirits likely covers the smooth flat threshingfloor of the old Temple site.

The Solomonic Temple - "Court of the Gentiles" where even unwashed slaves were allowed - is where the Dome of the Rock was constructed. The old Eastern Gate lines up perfectly with the little "dome of the tablets".

In other words the Dome of the Rock was built in the court outside of the Solomonic temple site, that was given to the Gentiles! The Muslims built the Dome of the Rock over the wrong rock! Does God have an awesome sense of humor or what?

7. Revelation 11:3: And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

1948 - 1260 = 688 .... the Dome of the Rock.

The Bible defines the two witnesses as the Jewish and Christian church, who were religiously exiled from Israel by Islam, marked symbolically, specifically, and repeatedly above, by the Dome of the Rock. Employing the scriptural adjacency rule of hermeneutics we learn:
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in My right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Rom 11:24 For if thou [the Gentiles] wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree [the Jews]: how much more
shall these [the Jews], which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

Many of the "former age" understood this interpretation of the two witnesses:
Matthew Henry: "Some think these two witnesses are Enoch and Elias, who are to return to the earth for a time: others, the church of the believing Jews and that of the Gentiles ... "
Or more recently Jamieson Faucett and Brown "..., I think the twofold Church, Jewish and Gentile, may be meant by the two candlesticks represented by the two witnesses ... "

1948 may well have marked the end of the Christian era, and entry into the era of the "time of the end". Few would argue that the Church and society have gone evermore rapidly downhill ever since. The end of the Christian era is studied more thoroughly at this link.

To see this view in more detail may I suggest one do a google search for “the False Prophet a free online book”

Are the math problems above and their solutions merely a series of accidents or flukes?

NOTES ABOUT MULTIPLIERS:

You can Yahoo the fact that a common understanding of the average number of days in a year is 365.24. Dividing this number by 12 we get 30.436666. If we round this number shorter we can arrive at the 30.44 average days in a month used above.

In regard to the multiplier for Hebrew to Solar years, taking the 360 day Hebrew year, and dividing it by the same 365.24 average days in a solar year above, we get .9856532. Rounding this number shorter we arrive at .9857 which is the multiplier we used above to convert Daniel's Hebrew years to the solar years of our historical record.

Beyond these adjustments the rest of the math above could be performed by a child.
A child would make a far better attempt at interpreting (prophetic) Scripture than you dude! :p
 
J

JS

Guest
#4
YES...and...NO

Remember to take things literally as well.

Too much 'interpreting' can lead to A LOT of misunderstanding.

It's very easy to do complex equations and arrive at something that seems 'right'. Then attach YOUR meaning to something.

I've been there, done that...I even have the t-shirt! :)

Be careful, don't jump to conclusions.


Love,

J
 
D

doulos

Guest
#5
This continuous historic view was also held by the reformers and much of the church throughout the Christian era in regard to New Testament prophecy. This is reinforced - indeed required - by an understanding of the "language" of prophecy of "each day for a year" that was well recognized by so many that we discover when we look to the former age and search their fathers:
Job 8:8 For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers: 9 (For we [are but of] yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth [are] a shadow: )

On Page 25 column 2 4th and 5th paragraph of Martyr’s Mirrors Theilman van Braght said “… a thousand two hundred and three score days, which, according to prophetic language, means as many years.mRev12:3-11….. let it be reckoned as it may, say we, a very long period….”
On page 277 of The Prophecies of Daniel and The Apocalypse Sir Isaac Newton said “…1260 days; and in these Prophecies days are put for years.”
On page 688 of the third volume of the Jamieson Fauseet brown Bible Commentary it says “…the woman a fugitive in the wilderness a thousand two hundred and and three score days. In the wider sense, we may adopt the day year theory of 1260 years…”'

A few others that have held the belief a day is a year in prophecy includes:
Augustine (AD 430)
Nahawendi (Jewish) (AD 8-9th century)
Jehoram (AD 10th century)
Abraham bar Hiyya (Jewish) (AD 1136)
Arnold of Villanova AD (1292)
Tichonius (AD 380)
Joachim of Floris (AD 1202)
John Wycliffe (AD c.1379)
Nicholas of Cusa (AD c.1452)
Martin Luther (AD 1522)
Phillip Melanchthon (AD 1543)
Johan Funck (AD 1558)
James I of England (AD 1600)

With a couple of thousand denominations all being confident that each has it right, doesn't it behoove us to continuously seek out the truth of God's Holy Word, and if our doctrine has difficulty in the light of scripture, to reconsider it? What much of the uninformed in the church BODY today would presume to be traditional eschatological doctrine, has in fact only been in the church for about one to five hundred years. It is a good idea for all of us to get to know the roots of the doctrine we hold. While most churches are on the same page regarding our core doctrines, and issues of salvation, the number of interpretations of the figurative language of visions and dreams in prophecy are legion. Virtually all established in the absence of sound hermeneutic principles.
From Walid Shoebat:"You might be shocked to know that the highest caliber commentators of old did not believe that Europe was the exclusive player in the End-Times. A revival of a Roman Empire never meant a revival of a European Empire.
Many of our best western scholars on Bible prophecy believed that Islam would be a major player and will revive in the end of days as part of this end-time beast. John Wesley interpreted the Iron in Daniel 2 as Islam (Works, 1841). Hilaire Belloc foresaw Islam‘s rise.2 Gregory Palamus of Thessalonica interpreted the martyrdom of Christians during the Great Tribulation to come from Islam. Josiah Litch interpreted Revelation as the ushering in of Islam...3 He even described the magnitude of Islam’s role being Antichrist to the extent of calling it the “general agreement among Christians, especially protestant commentators.” Cyril of Jerusalem (315-368 A.D) in his Divine Institutes believed that Antichrist proceeds forth from the region of ancient Syria 4, which today extends from Syria well into portions of Asia Minor (Turkey). Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem (560-638) and Maximus the Confessor (580-662) identified Islam with Antichrist and lived through Islam’s invasion of Jerusalem. Maximus was also an important theologian and scholar of the early Church who helped defeat the Monothelite heresy referred to the Muslim invasions as “announcing the advent of the Antichrist.” John of Damascus (676-749) was another very important figure in the early church. In his famous book, Against Heresies, he identified Islam as the forerunner to the Antichrist. Eulogius, Paul Alvarus and the Martyrs of Cordova (9th century) believed Muhammad to be a false prophet and the precursor to the Antichrist. 5 Many are not aware that while Martin Luther, father of the Protestant Reformation, believed that the Papacy played the role of the spiritual harlot, he also believed that the Muslims were the Kingdom of Antichrist. 6

John Calvin interpreted Daniel 2 eastern leg as the Eastern-Roman Islamic Empire and that Daniel 11:37 applied to the Muslims. 7 Even Jonathan Edwards the great American congregational preacher, revivalist, and president of PrincetonUniversity, like Luther and Calvin, saw Islam as one of the premiere elements of the AntichristKingdom. 8 Calvin even interpreted Islam’s fall at the sound of the great trumpet 9 Islam falling at the sound of the great trumpet even carries Islam into the Great Tribulation and not as many of our contemporary prophecy analysts who allege that Islam must be removed prior to Christ coming.

Even Sir Robert Anderson, perhaps one of the best prophecy experts who unlocked the seventy weeks of Daniel, in his remarkable book The Coming Prince, insists to focus on the Levant (Eastern) parts rather than the Adriatic (West). 10

Countless other Bible commentators warned about Islam being the kingdom of Antichrist—Selnecker, Nigrinus, Chytraeus, Bullinger, Foxe, Napier, Pareus, John Cotton, Thomas Parker, Increase Mather, Cotton Mather, and George Stanley Faber. 11

Also added to the list is Rev. Professor Dr. Francis Nigel Lee who sums up the traditional view in his excellent work Islam in the Bible: “from the seventh century onward – [the two legs] would degenerate respectively into the Papacy (which progressively took over the West) and Islam (which progressively took over the East.” (p. 5)

Making Europe the exclusive body of Antichrist kingdom is not the orthodox or even the traditional view. Some insist that Antichrist is Italian since he comes from the Roman Empire, but Roman does not strictly mean Italian, just as Alexander the Great was Grecian, this does not mean Athenian—he was from Macedonia. Antiochus Epiphanies, another biblical prediction was Syrian not Athenian or Cypriot. Why then, when it comes to Antichrist, insist on an Italian ignoring the whole empire. Even Jesus insisted that Pergamum in Revelation 2:12-13, was the seat of Satan and not the gymnastically altered interpretation for an archeological relic that sits in Berlin.

While contemporary prophesy analysts trumpet the idea that the fourth composite of Daniel 2 iron metal as strictly European, traditionalist views differ. Dr. Matthew Henry comments: "Who is this enemy—whose rise, reign and ruin are here foretold? Interpreters are not in agreement. Some will have the FourthKingdom to be that of the Seleucidae and the ‘little horn’ to be Antiochus...... Others will have the FourthKingdom to be that of the Romans, and the ‘little horn’ to be Julius Caesar and the succeeding emperors, as Calvin says. The Antichrist, the PapalKingdom, says Mr. Joseph Mede.

Others make the ‘little horn’ to be the Turkish Empire [Muslim]; so Luther, Vatablus, and others. Now I cannot prove either side to be in the wrong. Therefore, since prophecies sometimes have many fulfillments, we ought to give Scripture its full latitude (in this as in many other controversies)—I am willing to allow that they are both in the right.” 12"

REFERENCES

2 The Great Heresies, chapter 4 March, 1936, page 127-128
3 Hosiah Litch, The Three Woe Trumpets, Fall of The Ottoman Empire, August 11, 1840
4 Divine Institutes, 7:17
5 Paul Alvarus, Memoriale sanctorum 2.4
6 Martin Luther, Tischreden, Weimer ed., 1, No. 330
7 Calvin On Islam Revelation Prof. Dr. Francis Nigel Lee, Lamp Trimmers El Paso, 2000
8 Jonathan Edwards, The Fall of Antichrist, Part VII, page 395, New York, Published by S. Converse 1829
9 Jonathan Edwards, The Fall of Antichrist, Part VII, page 399, New York, Published by S. Converse 1829
10 The Coming Prince, Page 273
11 Froom: op. cit., II pp. 323f, 325f, 331, 340f, 412f, 458 & 518f and also III pp. 40f, 74f, 125-31, 149, 183, 240f, &352f.
12 M. Henry: A Commentary on the Holy Bible, with Practical Remarks andObservations, London: Marshall Bros. Ltd., n.d., IV:1270f.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#6
[FONT=&quot]"In A.D. 1840, sometime in the month of August;" and only a few days previous to its accomplishment he wrote: "Allowing the first period, 150 years, to have been exactly fulfilled before Deacozes ascended the throne by permission of the Turks, and that the 391 years, fifteen days, commenced at the close of the first period, it will end on the 11th of August, 1840, when the Ottoman power in Constantinople may be expected to be broken. And this, I believe, will be found to be the case."--Josiah Litch

He was here referring to the time prophecy of Revelation 9
[/FONT]
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
#7
One neat thing to take note of, is when God told Adam and Eve "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

People say "well, they didnt die that very same day." .....but if you take notice, no man has ever lived to be a thousand. Adam died at the age of 930 and the oldest, Methuselah, lived to be 969 years old.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#8
[FONT=&quot]Reasons for applying the year/day principle[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Reason # 1:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The expressions “time, times and the dividing of time”, “42 months”, “1260 days”, and “70 weeks”, are very peculiar. They could have been expressed in literal language but instead they are given a symbolic flavor. Notice, for example, that Luke 4:25 and James 5:17 refer to the period when there was no rain in the days of Elijah as “three years and six months”. This is the normal way of expressing time (see also, Acts 18:11; II Samuel 2:11; I Samuel 27:7).It is significant that every measurement of time in prophecy is given a symbolic flavor: hour (Revelation 17:12; 9:13), day (Revelation 12:6), week (Daniel 9:24-27), month (Revelation 13:5), year (Daniel 7:25). It is also significant that non-apocalyptic prophecies express time in literal language: 70 years (Jeremiah 25:11-12), 400 years (Genesis 15:13-15), 120 years (Genesis 6:3) with literal persons performing literal actions![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Reason # 2:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The symbolic time periods are always found within the context of apocalyptic passages where symbols predominate. For example, the three and one half times are found in the context of four symbolic beasts, a symbolic sea, symbolic winds, symbolic clouds, symbolic horns, and a symbolic little horn. Similarly, the 1260 days are found in a context where a symbolic woman, clothed with a symbolic sun, stands on a symbolic moon, with 12 symbolic stars on her head. She is persecuted by a symbolic dragon who has seven symbolic heads, ten symbolic horns and who casts a third of the symbolic stars to the earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In Revelation 13, the 42 months are found within a context where a symbolic composite beast, with ten symbolic horns, receives its power from a symbolic dragon. It also arises from a symbolic sea and later uses a symbolic image beast to impose a symbolic mark! The same could be said about Daniel 8. There we have a symbolic ram, a symbolic he-goat, and a symbolic little horn. It only stands to reason that if the scenes where these time periods are found in are symbolic, then the time periods must also be symbolic!![/FONT]
 
D

doulos

Guest
#9
[FONT=&quot]"In A.D. 1840, sometime in the month of August;" and only a few days previous to its accomplishment he wrote: "Allowing the first period, 150 years, to have been exactly fulfilled before Deacozes ascended the throne by permission of the Turks, and that the 391 years, fifteen days, commenced at the close of the first period, it will end on the 11th of August, 1840, when the Ottoman power in Constantinople may be expected to be broken. And this, I believe, will be found to be the case."--Josiah Litch[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]He was here referring to the time prophecy of Revelation 9[/FONT]

Rev 9 takes place over a period of five months.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
There are 30.44 days in a moth so 5 months has 152 days. The first Jihad did last 152 years. So while I agree with you that Rev9 is about Islam I disagree with the time frame you have shown.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#10
Rev 9 takes place over a period of five months.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
There are 30.44 days in a moth so 5 months has 152 days. The first Jihad did last 152 years. So while I agree with you that Rev9 is about Islam I disagree with the time frame you have shown.
Prophetic time has 30 days to a month. Also you mentioned Josiah Litch in your post and 1840, I happen to have that quote so I put it on.

Ezek
4:6, a day for a year.

"Hour,"
1/24th part of a day, or 15 literal days.

" Day,"
= a year,

"Month,"
= 30 years

"Year,"
= 360 years

Total- 391 years, 15 days
 
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D

doulos

Guest
#11
Prophetic time has 30 days to a month. Also you mentioned Josiah Litch in your post and 1840, I happen to have that quote so I put it on].

I've already shown where Scripture gives a five month time frame for Rev9. A year to Jogn was 365.25 days so that would be 30.44 days per month x 5 = 152 yeras. The reason these scholars were quoted was to show that at one time a day a for a year was the traditional view the church held when it came to prophetic interpretation. Scholars Like Matthew Henry and Sir Isaac Newtown recognized that prophecy was not meant to be understooad until the time of the ned just as Daniel sain in Dan12:4&9. Realizing that we from our vantage point on the historical time line can look backwards from when Jerusalem was no longer trodden over by the Gentiles (1967) and from when Isreal became a nation(woman came out of the wilderness) and then see where and how these prophecies have been fulfilled. We have both Scripture and history saying the same thing.

Ezek 4:6, a day for a year.

"Hour," 1/24th part of a day, or15 literal days.

" Day," = a year,

"Month," =30 years

"Year," = 360 years

Total- 391 years, 15 days
Your inconsistency in your method of interpretation is duly noted. Then why in other posts do you say 1260 years takes us from 538 to 1798? For that to occur a year would be 365.24 days. 1260 years based on 360 days per year would only be 1241.982 years (round to 1242) on our calendar. So if as you say the the 1260 years are 360 day years and begin in 538 they would end in 1780 not 1798, care to explain this discrepancy? Look through the eyes of the prophet the vision was given to. Daniel’s calendar was loosely based on 360 day so a year to Daniel would be 360 days. But the 365 ¼ day year came into place before John’s time so a year to John was 365 ¼ days. One of the inconsistencies with the commonly held historicist view you espouse is, using a 360 day year to make the 42 months 1260 days then switch to a regular 365.24 day year when applying it to the calendar. Ou can’t just switch from one to the other in midstream just to make it fit your doctrine! Look through the eyes of the prophet what was a year in the eyes of the prophet the prophecy was given to.
 
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
24
0
#12
i do not believe a day is always a year in prophecy. god only said that one time. the bible does not teach that it is always a year for a day. beware of these types of schemes. i had a bible college teacher who proved you could always come up with a scheme by making a few of his own. he later told the class that he just played with it until it worked. everyone could come up with schemes. don't be fooled.
 
Oct 22, 2011
628
7
18
#13
i do not believe a day is always a year in prophecy. god only said that one time. the bible does not teach that it is always a year for a day. beware of these types of schemes. i had a bible college teacher who proved you could always come up with a scheme by making a few of his own. he later told the class that he just played with it until it worked. everyone could come up with schemes. don't be fooled.
The application of a day is a year in prophecy is well established in the 69 weeks. There were four restoration decrees to rebuild Jerusalem by the Medo-Persian empire but only one decree that was granted to Nehemiah by Artaxerxes I in 444 B.C. to rebuild Jerusalem and the walls. The “going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem” and even the walls in troublous times (Dan 9:25) is the reference point to apply the day/year application. So this reference point is 444 B. C.
When we take the 69 weeks and multiply them by 7 (days in a week) we come to the following total, 69x7=483 day/year.
And just as doulos showed in his excellent post we use a multiplier of .9857 to convert these Hebrew years (360) to solar years (365.24) 483x.9857=476.0931.
And as he showed that 444 B.C. our reference point plus the converted Hebrew to solar years = 32.0931 or
-444+476.0931=32.0931A.D.
When using sound hermeneutic principals they require us to being consistent in the method of interpretation which will help us to understand scripture. When the absence of sound hermeneutic principals are disregarded they can lead to a misinterpretation of scripture, and lead to false doctrine.

And jonathanbchristian you should know being a self proclaimed prophet a day for a year is used more than once in the Inspired Word of God.

In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#14
Your inconsistency in your method of interpretation is duly noted. Then why in other posts do you say 1260 years takes us from 538 to 1798? For that to occur a year would be 365.24 days. 1260 years based on 360 days per year would only be 1241.982 years (round to 1242) on our calendar. So if as you say the the 1260 years are 360 day years and begin in 538 they would end in 1780 not 1798, care to explain this discrepancy? Look through the eyes of the prophet the vision was given to. Daniel’s calendar was loosely based on 360 day so a year to Daniel would be 360 days. But the 365 ¼ day year came into place before John’s time so a year to John was 365 ¼ days. One of the inconsistencies with the commonly held historicist view you espouse is, using a 360 day year to make the 42 months 1260 days then switch to a regular 365.24 day year when applying it to the calendar. Ou can’t just switch from one to the other in midstream just to make it fit your doctrine! Look through the eyes of the prophet what was a year in the eyes of the prophet the prophecy was given to.
Your inconsistency in your method of interpretation is duly noted.

1798 - 538 = 1260 years
Revelation 11:3
(3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 12:6
(6) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

1260 / 30 = 42
Revelation 13:5
(5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.



 
D

doulos

Guest
#15
Your inconsistency in your method of interpretation is duly noted.

1798 - 538 = 1260 years
Revelation 11:3
(3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 12:6
(6) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

1260 / 30 = 42
Revelation 13:5
(5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.


Like I said your inconsistency in your method of interpretation is duly noted.
So why do use a 360 day year to make 42 months 1260 days?
And then turn around and use a 365.24 day year to take you from 538 to 1798?
Isn’t that rather inconsistent?

Both prophecies were given by John who used a year based on 365 ¼ days. How do you justify using a 360 day year to make 42 months 1260 days and then turn around and use 365 ¼ day year in order to make it fit your timeline. Isn’t that rather inconsistent? Which is it you can’t have it both ways? I could understand using a 360 day year for the 42 months if Daniel had given the prophecy, but both the 1260 day prophecy and the 42 month prophecy came from John who used a 365 ¼ day year. So we should use 365 ¼ day years for both. In addition the 1260 day prophecy was not fulfilled between 538 and 1798. Nothing happened in 538 that resulted in the woman needing to flee Jerusalem and go into the wilderness, nor did she return out of the wilderness in 1798.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#16
Like I said your inconsistency in your method of interpretation is duly noted.
So why do use a 360 day year to make 42 months 1260 days?
And then turn around and use a 365.24 day year to take you from 538 to 1798?
Isn’t that rather inconsistent?

Both prophecies were given by John who used a year based on 365 ¼ days. How do you justify using a 360 day year to make 42 months 1260 days and then turn around and use 365 ¼ day year in order to make it fit your timeline. Isn’t that rather inconsistent? Which is it you can’t have it both ways? I could understand using a 360 day year for the 42 months if Daniel had given the prophecy, but both the 1260 day prophecy and the 42 month prophecy came from John who used a 365 ¼ day year. So we should use 365 ¼ day years for both. In addition the 1260 day prophecy was not fulfilled between 538 and 1798. Nothing happened in 538 that resulted in the woman needing to flee Jerusalem and go into the wilderness, nor did she return out of the wilderness in 1798.

Your method of counting is not according to the Bible.
Genesis 7:11
(11) In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Genesis 8:3-4
(3) And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
(4) And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Here is a period of 5 months, 150 days, showing that the Bible is using 30 day months so that means 42 months in prophecy is 1260 years.

 
D

doulos

Guest
#17
Your method of counting is not according to the Bible.
Genesis 7:11
(11) In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Genesis 8:3-4
(3) And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
(4) And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Here is a period of 5 months, 150 days, showing that the Bible is using 30 day months so that means 42 months in prophecy is 1260 years.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is
given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two
months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a
thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

LOL let me get this straight. You say 42 months is 1260 days because there are 360 days per year. But then you say the 1260 days go from 538 to 1798? 1260 years based on 360 days per year would only be 1242 years on our calendar so how do 1260 360 day/years go from 538 to 1798? So the years in Rev11:2 are 360 days but the ones in Rev11:3 are 365 ¼ days? Isn’t that rather inconsistent? You use a 360 day year for the 42 months, then turn around and use a 365 ¼ day year for the 1260 years. Like I said your inconsistency is duly noted!

Look through the eyes of the prophet, to Daniel a year was 360 days so use a 360 day for year the prophecies he gave. To John a year was 365 ¼ days so use a 365 ¼ day year for the prophecies John gave. Sound hermeneutic principles require we be consistent in our method of interpretation. Consistency requires that we look through the eyes of the prophet and count a year as the prophet did. So Daniels prophecies would use a year that had 360 days because that was a year to Daniel. John on the other hand lived under Roman rule and the calendar used at the time had 365 ¼ days. So using a 360 day year for Old Testament prophecies and a 365 ¼ day year for New Testament prophecies is a consistent method.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#18
I think you need to go back to school and learn how to count cause 538 + 1260 = 1798
 
P

peterT

Guest
#19
A child would make a far better attempt at interpreting (prophetic) Scripture than you dude! :p
You hit the nail right on the head.

Where does it say we must use a year of every day for prophecy.

2 Corinthians Chapter 11 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Ephesians 4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

The disciples wouldn’t have said 42 months if they meant 1260 years.
And wouldn’t have said 1260 day if they meant 1260 years.
 
D

doulos

Guest
#20
I think you need to go back to school and learn how to count cause 538 + 1260 = 1798
Sure it is if those years are 365 1/4 days long and not 360 (which you insist is the length of a year in prophecy) . Didn't you say that in prophecy a year is 360 days long? Are the years between 538 and1798 365 1/4 days long or 360 days long? Remember our calendar is based on 365 1/4 days not 360, so 1260 of our years is not the same length of time as 1260 years based on 360 days per year.Just as 42 months on our calendar is not the same number of days as 42 months when one uses a 360 day year. On our calendar the 1260 years from 538 to 1798 there are 460215 days but 1260 years based on 360 days per year only has 453600 days. A diffference of approximately 18 years. Like I said if you are going to insist a year is 360 days then you cant use a 365 1/4 day to say the 1260 are fulfilled from 538 (on a 365 1/4 day calendar) to 1798(on a 365 1/4 day calendar). Like I said your inconsistency in your method of interpretation is duly noted!