A little sprinkle of water and ta da! You're baptized!

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FrankLee

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2016
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#41
The world perishes while disciples of Christ argue over whether to use a water pistol or the creek for baptisms.

Certainly John the Baptist wouldn't have stood in the middle of the Jordan in order to sprinkle water on the heads of believers. My mother law was sprinkled with water using a long stemmed rose as the device. How beautiful! How symbolic! How poetic! How worthless! The problem? She was not a born again Christian.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#42
People swim in water everyday, it's not the act of emersion it's the words and heart that complete the baptism. without love it's just cleshay, does anyone know what John the Baptist said to Jesus during the baptism. Has anyone witness a baptism and nothing was mentioned.
So swimming and baptism are similar events? Wow. Never knew this.
People swimming in the water are not, by their swimming in the water, professing some sort of outward commitment and love of the water...

That is what IamWhoI am was trying to explain.

When one is baptized, there is more behind and hidden in the heart of the one who desires to be water baptized...

It isn't the love of the water that the one wanting to be baptized is baptized...it is the love of the LORD and the hearing and believing of THE GOSPEL that one desires to be water baptized.

It's not the same at all.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#43
And how do you know she was not a born again Christian?
Did she believe THE GOSPEL. Did she love and have faith in THE LORD, her Savior?
How do you know she was not born again?

Even those who believe in HIS NAME...are they saved?
They may not have an anointing of the HOLY SPIRIT...there may be no visible sign by which we can determine if they are born again...but anyone who believes in HIM as the scripture states, has already passed from death to life.

Yes?

She by an act of faith, desired to be water baptized...Maybe she was simple and her faith like a child...maybe she believed in THE LORD and that was sufficient to her faith. But, maybe she didn't go and evangelize, but her simple quiet faith...wasn't it still faith?

The world perishes while disciples of Christ argue over whether to use a water pistol or the creek for baptisms.

Certainly John the Baptist wouldn't have stood in the middle of the Jordan in order to sprinkle water on the heads of believers. My mother law was sprinkled with water using a long stemmed rose as the device. How beautiful! How symbolic! How poetic! How worthless! The problem? She was not a born again Christian.
 
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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#44
At the end of my parents life, I thought for sure they were not born again.
But, I tell you, at the very end of my father's life, he was speaking OUTWARDLY and OPENLY of the CHURCH and how GOD in HIS order, does it this way, that the father should be the first to leave this physical world.

He, by his simple quiet introverted self...who never spoke openly, though at the end, I asked him if he believed in JESUS and he said to me, I know, Maryann...I know HE died for my sins...

That is sufficient and faith as a child.


I, on the other hand, needed visible signs and drama...always...that is who I am...
I received a hit over the head conversion which left nothing for me to do but to believe and turn...

But that was what I was looking for from my father, as some sort of validation for myself that he was also saved.

GOD is awesome...and blessed are those who have not "seen" and believe...
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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#45
How am I pulling baptism out of context? The topic consitudes study, scriptural study.
You are pulling the word immerse out of context to make it apply to ANY cleansing process... it has already been pointed out to you that "washing" something is not accomplished by sprinkling water, or any other material on it.

and, baptism, in Greek, is defined as "to immerse". You even quoted Onefaith, with the explanation of that.

Trying to redefine baptism as simply a "washing" is scripturally wrong, as well... Peter makes that pretty plain...

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God [SUP][q][/SUP]for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [SUP]22 [/SUP]

It is NOT a "washing" ritual.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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#46
So please don't tell me your mother was not a born again Christian.

GOD knows...


And if anything, remember...what you bind on earth IS bound in heaven.
and what you have entrusted to HIM for the day, HE is keeping for you to the day.

I prayed for my parents...I wanted some visible sign of proof to validate my own doubt and fear that my parents were saved.


I got it two weeks after my father passed away.

You see, throughout the last two weeks of my father's life, he saw children...children were speaking and around him...

And two weeks later, driving in my car, the LORD brought this TRUTH to me:

THE KINGDOM of GOD belongs to THESE LITTLE ONES.
And unless you become as a child, you shall not see THE KINGDOM of GOD.


Faith is faith.
Even the size of a small mustard seed.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#47
The world perishes while disciples of Christ argue over whether to use a water pistol or the creek for baptisms.

Certainly John the Baptist wouldn't have stood in the middle of the Jordan in order to sprinkle water on the heads of believers. My mother law was sprinkled with water using a long stemmed rose as the device. How beautiful! How symbolic! How poetic! How worthless! The problem? She was not a born again Christian.
Aww that was sweet and your mother in law is truly blessed and baptized.

what is your belief on the correct baptism is it full Emerson into the water? what happens if someone didn't get a simple finger into the water, is the whole baptism worthless Because the person had one finger that did not get water on it?

if it's ok and still valid that even though one finger didn't get emerse into water, than how can someone say a sprinkle of water isn't enough, scripture does not say those who are baptized it needs to be exactly like John and Phillip.
 
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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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#48
So please don't tell me your mother was not a born again Christian.

GOD knows...


And if anything, remember...what you bind on earth IS bound in heaven.
and what you have entrusted to HIM for the day, HE is keeping for you to the day.

I prayed for my parents...I wanted some visible sign of proof to validate my own doubt and fear that my parents were saved.


I got it two weeks after my father passed away.

You see, throughout the last two weeks of my father's life, he saw children...children were speaking and around him...

And two weeks later, driving in my car, the LORD brought this TRUTH to me:

THE KINGDOM of GOD belongs to THESE LITTLE ONES.
And unless you become as a child, you shall not see THE KINGDOM of GOD.

So, if those little children were around him.
He was going where he was supposed to go.


Faith is faith.
Even the size of a small mustard seed.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
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#49
Im sorry frankLee...you are speaking about arguing about sprinkling and immersing.
And then you say that your mother who was sprinkled was not a born again christian.

So then stop worrying about us, and pray for her...
Possibly GOD will give you some proof that she is okay or that you need to pray for her and never cease from praying for her...
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
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#50
God knows everyone's heart and he knows their true intentions. If I am not truly repentant in my heart and not truly saved and just making an outward show...then it wouldn't matter if I got baptized in the middle of the ocean...It wouldn't do me any good. God knows everyone's heart.
[video=youtube;zSif77IVQdY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSif77IVQdY[/video]
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#51
To baptize means to wash. Making pickles a two step process or washing dishes washing and rinsing would be a good comparison to be used in respect to the ceremonial law that governs ceremonies. Not a moral law that governs morals. No judging. Not the work of the Holy Spirit He is not served by human hands(will) in any way shape or form .

It has its foundation in a Old testament ceremonial law it continues today to represent the washing away of sin in preparation of entering the kingdom of priest (all believers) .

Water, moving as in living is used to represent blood. In that way we can say the blood (Spirit) of Jesus washes away sin.

Blood and water both represent the Spirit of Christ not seen . While the life of the flesh is in the blood, literal blood without the spirit essence of life has no life to offer.

For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Mar 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash(907 baptize) , they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing (909 baptismos ) of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.Mar 7:3


Bible Study Magazine, James Montgomery Boice, May 1989.

The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change. When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g. Mark 16:16. 'He that believes and is baptised shall be saved'. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle!

Bread or corn represent the flesh of Christ. Washed or dipped into vinegar represents the change not seen. Sort of like the last supper. Christ of his own flesh informs us it cannot profit. To eat my flesh and drink my blood is a parable in that way, the spiritual meaning is hid as in all parables like the one below that is used to preach the gospel of Christ in respect to his suffering beforehand...

Then she said, Let me find favour in thy sight, my lord; for that thou hast comforted me, and for that thou hast spoken friendly unto thine handmaid, though I be not like unto one of thine handmaidens.And Boaz said unto her, At mealtime come thou hither, and eat of the bread, and dip thy morsel in the vinegar. And she sat beside the reapers: and he reached her parched corn, and she did eat, and was sufficed, and left.Rut 2:13

It would seem vinegar is used to make a change like a kernel of corn parable if not planted it will not change

Psa 69:21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#52
God knows everyone's heart and he knows their true intentions. If I am not truly repentant in my heart and not truly saved and just making an outward show...then it wouldn't matter if I got baptized in the middle of the ocean...It wouldn't do me any good. God knows everyone's heart.
[video=youtube;zSif77IVQdY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSif77IVQdY[/video]
Good song I like it,

You our bring up a good point, what happens if people are living in desert where water is scarce and may not have enough to fully emerse someone completely in water, is it not a valid baptism.

I'm starting to think people are getting way to comfortable living by mass amounts of water enough to fully emerse people and don't think of places on earth that have very little water even to just simply live and it's hard enough to find.

way to many people live to cushy of lives and don't humble themselves understand the life precious sourse of water, that some people will cut of a finger just to drink it.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#53
The world perishes while disciples of Christ argue over whether to use a water pistol or the creek for baptisms.

Certainly John the Baptist wouldn't have stood in the middle of the Jordan in order to sprinkle water on the heads of believers. My mother law was sprinkled with water using a long stemmed rose as the device. How beautiful! How symbolic! How poetic! How worthless! The problem? She was not a born again Christian.
FrankLee...

Im sorry.

So sorry for my passion.

You do not know for sure if she is unsaved.

She did, by an act of faith, profess her faith outwardly.

Of course, GOD alone knows her heart and sees the true inward profession

Just as Romans 8 clearly states.


Just don't say who will ascend or who will descend.

We don't know...and we shouldn't say...
 
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Apr 23, 2017
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#54
i wonder who first started this tradition........... i know its not from the bible u see....... i wish all bibles had acts 8:37 that would eliminate this doctrine u see........
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
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#55
Good song I like it,

You our bring up a good point, what happens if people are living in desert where water is scarce and may not have enough to fully emerse someone completely in water, is it not a valid baptism.

I'm starting to think people are getting way to comfortable living by mass amounts of water enough to fully emerse people and don't think of places on earth that have very little water even to just simply live and it's hard enough to find.

way to many people live to cushy of lives and don't humble themselves understand the life precious sourse of water, that some people will cut of a finger just to drink it.
It also comes to mind people on their death bed who get saved. Should we roll them out to the river in hospital beds to baptize them? The thief on the cross comes to mind and from scripture I think it's clear that the thief on the cross was dying when Jesus saved him...No time to be Baptized, yet he still made it to paradise that day...That's why I think people need to just pray and listen to the Lord and do what they feel he is leading them to do because he does truly know the hearts of all.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#56
It also comes to mind people on their death bed who get saved. Should we roll them out to the river in hospital beds to baptize them? The thief on the cross comes to mind and from scripture I think it's clear that the thief on the cross was dying when Jesus saved him...No time to be Baptized, yet he still made it to paradise that day...That's why I think people need to just pray and listen to the Lord and do what they feel he is leading them to do because he does truly know the hearts of all.
Very Good point about the thief on the cross, where was his baptism, of coarse one drop of blood from Jesus might have found its way onto his body being he was next to Jesus, of coarse but that would be speculative, nonetheless the thief wasn't emersed into water and made it to paradise that is saying a lot indeed. :)
 

Innerfire89

Senior Member
Aug 23, 2017
586
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#57
You are pulling the word immerse out of context to make it apply to ANY cleansing process... it has already been pointed out to you that "washing" something is not accomplished by sprinkling water, or any other material on it.

and, baptism, in Greek, is defined as "to immerse". You even quoted Onefaith, with the explanation of that.

Trying to redefine baptism as simply a "washing" is scripturally wrong, as well... Peter makes that pretty plain...




It is NOT a "washing" ritual.
Its not a ritual of washing dirt off the physical body, it is symbolic of washing though.
Think about it, why use water to not symbolize washing?

The word is baptizo, not immersion.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#58
i wonder who first started this tradition........... i know its not from the bible u see....... i wish all bibles had acts 8:37 that would eliminate this doctrine u see........
The practice of infant baptism was carried over into protestantism from the RCC. It shows just how difficult it is to let go of tradition, even when it isn't exactly biblical.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#59
The practice of infant baptism was carried over into protestantism from the RCC. It shows just how difficult it is to let go of tradition, even when it isn't exactly biblical.
Your are correct about the carry over the man John Calvin took that idea as well but what John Calvin did was very extreme, he had people beheaded if they didn't agree with baby baptism.

thats a good example of how deluded people minds can get when creating false doctrine, John Calvin's heart became cold as ice because of it.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,083
1,709
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#60
The word is baptizo, not immersion.
again..... I am using "immersion" because that is the most literal translation of that word into English...

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:


́

baptizō

1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one' s self, bathe 3) to overwhelm
Are you being deliberately argumentative, or simply obtuse?