a low view of the Law, or shallow sin concept

[Willie-T]

Fully agree...........but, oh wait, that's a but, oh well, ....................... but if we do not repent and ASK Him to come into our lives, forgive our sins, and wash us clean with His precious blood........are our sins gone anyway?

Is there no condemnation for the unrepentant who reject Him?


Dat's a BIG but..........

I dunno. We know that John 3:16 has God sending Jesus for ALL the world. We can jump funky, and start hollerin' "Universalism" all we want..... but He still said what He said.

And then who did the angels in the sky on the night of Jesus' birth say their proclamation was for? I think it was for ALL men.

One of us here, especially, likes to push the Big Red Universalism Button as hard and as often as she can..... but He still said those things...... and Revelation 22:17 still has the bride and the Spirit calling to the "Nations" (those non-Jews against God)... "Come" into the New Jerusalem for healing.

I didn't write those things.... nor do I try to impress my personal interpretation upon the words... I just read them, and wonder how so many of us can be so sure WE know what is really being said.

 

[BradC]

Child molestation and murder IS abhorrent and unjustifiable.

The hearts of the children of God are PURE not sick and covered with putrefying sores. When the Bible speaks of wicked hearts it is speaking of wicked people, not those whom have been saved.

Do you really believe that the salvation of God leaves one filthy, wretched and evil?

What kind of salvation is that? Saved from what? Certainly not sin like the Bible teaches.

Jesus said blessed ARE the pure in heart for they shall see God.

ARE you pure in heart?

The Bible teaches that FAITH PURIFIES THE HEART.

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Do you teach that? No you don't. You argue in favour of perpetual inward filth. Look at your post, your contention is ongoing inward wickedness. Why argue in favour of wickedness when the Bible argues in favour of righteousness?

Has your soul been purified through obedience to the truth through the Spirit whereby you are able to love others with a pure heart fervently?

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Can you testify to that?

You testify to this...


So you boast in your wickedness and yet claim to be a Christian?

Where is...

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

You obviously don't believe in the Jesus of the Bible who can set you free from sin. You must believe in some other Jesus who somehow saves you whilst leaving you in your filth.

By your own words you confess you are indeed inwardly wicked.



Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Without being able to understand human depravity and being conceived in sin through the sin of Adam, it is impossible to understand the grace of God or when sin abounds how God makes grace abound much more. Human and legalistic thinking will always fall short in its understanding of the God of all grace and the wisdom of God that is justified of its children. The scripture in (Prov 4:23) tells us the we are to keep (or guard) our heart with all diligence because of what is in the heart described in (Mt 15 & Mark 7).

We have the blood that covers us, the cross that has put away sin, the resurrection that justifies us and the body of Christ so that we can have fellowship with the living God through one another, his body, flesh and bones. We are not to glory in sin as some accuse us of doing because of their own insecurities and legalistic tendencies, but we are to glory in the grace of God that has been given unto us in Christ and who has saved us to the uttermost (Heb 7:25).

Some of you legalist out there would send many believers to hell in a heartbeat because of sin and things you see through the eyes of the law. If you continue in your justification through the law you have your reward as well.

 

[phil112]

Everything you need to know about the law versus the spirit is in 2 Corinthians chapter 3.
The letter is the law.
You law keepers and legalists that don't understand what Paul says here are not where you should be spiritually.
If you don't understand this, your minds are blinded. That should give you a long and sober pause about your salvation.

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

 

[just-me]

This is a very good thread mom!
As I was reading through the posts, and I thought, and have thought for years, that if professing Christians took the law more seriously, (rather than teach against it as something past, old, and done away with), that we would receive a better appreciation, and recognition of the righteous beauty of our Almighty God and Father of our Savior.

Not only that, but we would also grow in our appreciation of the gift of salvation offered to all people through His grace that has been finalized through Christ Jesus. I have often thought how much work the Old Covenant priesthood did in sacrifice and maintenance even though they didn't receive and land inheritance to maintain. The porters, the singers, the bakers, and so on. Christ carried it all, which before thousands of men did in the Levitical priesthood. He carried it all while He carried the cross. Every last bit of it all by Himself just for us. That was His sole purpose. That to me is more amazing than any words in my vocabulary can explain.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

People put human thinking on GOD but GOD does not look at sin as big sin and small sin but GOD sees any sin as sin.
GOD counted them all as coming up short of being right with him.
IE
If in order to make it into heaven you had to jump 10 feet high.If you were Michael Jordan you might jump 9 feet and if you were a couch potato you might jump 1inch but whether you jump 9 feet or 1 inch if you miss heaven by an inch you May as well of missed it by a mile.

GOD will only except perfection.Only JESUS is perfect so we need Grace because GOD sees us through JESUS.

 

[psychomom]

This is a very good thread mom!
As I was reading through the posts, and I thought, and have thought for years, that if professing Christians took the law more seriously, (rather than teach against it as something past, old, and done away with), that we would receive a better appreciation, and recognition of the righteous beauty of our Almighty God and Father of our Savior.

Not only that, but we would also grow in our appreciation of the gift of salvation offered to all people through His grace that has been finalized through Christ Jesus. I have often thought how much work the Old Covenant priesthood did in sacrifice and maintenance even though they didn't receive and land inheritance to maintain. The porters, the singers, the bakers, and so on. Christ carried it all, which before thousands of men did in the Levitical priesthood. He carried it all while He carried the cross. Every last bit of it all by Himself just for us. That was His sole purpose. That to me is more amazing than any words in my vocabulary can explain.

why, thank you.

it seems to have attracted a variety of different members, so that's good? lol

when i think of the temple, i always think what a bloody, smelly mess it must have been. (bugs? this is where a housewife's mind goes... )
all those priests doing God's work in the temple... and not a chair in sight.

then i think of this:
And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God (Heb 10:11-12)

He sat down. tetelestai. It is finished.

selah

 

[Angela53510]

I dunno. We know that John 3:16 has God sending Jesus for ALL the world. We can jump funky, and start hollerin' "Universalism" all we want..... but He still said what He said.

And then who did the angels in the sky on the night of Jesus' birth say their proclamation was for? I think it was for ALL men.

One of us here, especially, likes to push the Big Red Universalism Button as hard and as often as she can..... but He still said those things...... and Revelation 22:17 still has the bride and the Spirit calling to the "Nations" (those non-Jews against God)... "Come" into the New Jerusalem for healing.

I didn't write those things.... nor do I try to impress my personal interpretation upon the words... I just read them, and wonder how so many of us can be so sure WE know what is really being said.

So this is where you get your universalism. A bad translation!

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men." Luke 2:14 KJV

"Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!” Luke 2:14 ESV.


"δοξα εν υψιστοις θεω και επι γης ειρηνη εν ανθρωποις ευδοκια" Luke 2:14 Stephanus NT TR1550
"Δόξα ἐν ὑψίστοις θεῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς εἰρήνη ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκίας." Luke 2:14 SBL Greek

I have put these two Greek translations close together, to see if you can see the only real difference (besides the capital at the beginning. There is only a ONE letter difference, and that letter makes the entire translation different.

Eudokia ευδοκια, is the word that KJ uses to translate, which is found only in the much later translations, particularly the Byzantine. It is in the nominative case, because somewhere in the 1000's of years after the bible was written, the sigma was dropped off the end.

Eudokias εὐδοκίας is the word found in all the older manuscipts, and is used to translate modern versions like the ESV. Eudokias is in the genitive case, which is literally translated "of good will" or "characterized by [God's] good pleasure."

In other words, the peace that the angels sang about belonged to the earth as a result of the birth of Christ is NOT a generic, worldwide peace, for all humanity, but a peace limited to those who find favour with God by believing in his Son, Jesus.

What a difference a single letter can make to the meaning of the text, and in forming bad doctrine.

 

[phil112]

This is a very good thread mom!
As I was reading through the posts, and I thought, and have thought for years, that if professing Christians took the law more seriously, (rather than teach against it as something past, old, and done away with), that we would receive a better appreciation, and recognition of the righteous beauty of our Almighty God and Father of our Savior.

..................................................

In post #23 I quoted Paul saying it was done away with.
So my question to you is this: Besides Paul, what other men that God chose for His work do you disdain?

 

[Gr8grace]

Fully agree...........but, oh wait, that's a but, oh well, ....................... but if we do not repent and ASK Him to come into our lives, forgive our sins, and wash us clean with His precious blood........are our sins gone anyway?

Is there no condemnation for the unrepentant who reject Him?


Dat's a BIG but..........

Every mans sins are judged on the cross. Not one unbeliever will pay for their sins. Christ died for the sins of the WHOLE world.

Unbelievers go to the LoF, based upon their good deeds done in the flesh........evil in the site of the Lord.

Believers are judged by their good deeds done in the flesh(Wood,hay and stubble.) And believers are rewarded for the divine good done through the Spirit.

He took care of sin on the Cross. He didn't take care of our self righteousness(evil) on the Cross.

It is why the pharisees were the brood of vipers and not the "sinners."

Not one man is going to pay for their sins. They will pay for thinking they were good enough.