A Study of the Scriptures: All the Stories in the Bible.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
For our other readers here: Please take note that when I say Peter said Lot was rightteous, I am saying he was the person God used as conduit to write about Lot. I believe all Scripture (i.e. the Bible) is the divinely inspired Word of God and that it's author is ultimately God. But that does not mean God did not use men to write the Scriptures, though.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
And they said again,
"This one fellow came in to sojourn,
To "sojourn" means: To stay temporarily.

In other words, the men of Sodom were calling Lot a foreigner or an outsider.

For the New Living Translation says it like this:

"Stand back!" they shouted. "This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he's acting like our judge! We'll treat you far worse than those other men!" And they lunged toward Lot to break down the door. (Genesis 19:9).

And just as Lot was an outsider, Jesus Christ was an outsider, too.

In fact, here is a really great article that says it better than I can.



Jesus: The Ultimate Outsider.
by Joe McKeever.

“We have an altar, from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat. For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp. Therefore, Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate. Hence, let us go out to Him….” (Hebrews 13:10-13)

Have you ever felt like an outsider?

Good. You need to.

As a follower of Jesus Christ, you are not only walking in the footsteps of the Ultimate Outsider but you have been called to a similar way of life.

The Lord Jesus “came unto His own and His own received Him not” (John 1:12). He was an Outsider even in His own place, among His own people, attending His own party.


He came to His world and it did not recognize Him.
He walked into His house, found it to be the haven of thieves and con-men, and proceeded to cleanse it, only to be confronted with demands of “by what authority do you do this?” (He answered, “It’s my house.”)
He came to His people and they crucified Him.

No one taking up his cross and coming after Jesus should be surprised when the world turns its back on him and writes him off as a loser and irrelevant. In following Jesus Christ, one should expect the path to be uphill, the company to be few, and the flow to be all in the opposite direction.


An Old Testament lesson worth treasuring.

In the former system, the blood of sacrificial animals was brought into the “most holy place” by the high priest as an offering for sin. However, the bodies of the animals were not eaten (in the pattern of most sacrifices), but were burned “outside the camp” (Leviticus 6:30 and 16:27). The Jews thus had an outside altar as well as the primary one inside the Temple.

Followers of the Lord Jesus see this as one more metaphor–the Epistle of the Hebrews lists many such–which prefigured the coming ministry of our Lord. Quoting scholar Edward Fudge, “In keeping with this figure, Jesus also suffered outside the gate of Jerusalem and therefore outside the camp of Israel, so that he might sanctify the people with his own blood. He not only was treated shamefully (Hebrews 12:2), but He was in the literal sense an outcast.”


Writer Neil Lightfoot says, “Crucifixion in ancient times took place outside the cities. Jesus died ‘outside the gate,’ that is, outside the city of Jerusalem (John 19:20). His blood, in contrast to that of animal victims (Hebrews 9:12), was the means of sanctification and the one acceptable sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:29).”


Let us go forth to Him outside the camp, bearing abuse for him.


In its immediate context, the writer of Hebrews is calling for followers of Jesus to break all ties with the Judaistic system. Everything in Hebrews was written to establish that we now have the fulfillment of all the old system promised, that Jesus Christ is the substance for which the old was the shadow.


In our day, there is a wider application. We who have chosen (and been chosen) as disciples of Jesus Christ are called to live for Him outside the mainstream of this worldly system. “If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him” (I John 1:15).
The specifics of that–what it means for each disciple–will have to be left to the individual under the leadership of the Holy Spirit.

–Originally, when some pastors began criticizing the styles of women’s hair and the length of their hemlines, I imagine it stemmed from a sincere desire to buck the trends of the world, to resist the lure of the carnal siren beckoning God’s faithful people to indulge in its fleshly standards. I suspect that’s in back of the Mennonites and Amish resistance to modern ways.


Those things have a way of getting out of hand, clearly, and quickly becoming legalism if the worst sort.

My conclusion, therefore, for what it’s worth, is that I am not empowered nor gifted to instruct you on what “serving the Lord outside the camp” means for you personally. Nor are you able to tell me. The Holy Spirit fills this role nicely.

–Christians will always have to fight the desire to be both in the world and “of” the world. (We have in mind John 17:11,14, where Jesus says His people are “in the world” but not “of the world.” That is always the standard.)


What that means and how we choose to resist the alluring ways of the world is an urgent matter, but one for each to decide. For many, it means guarding the reading material and entertainment allowed into one’s home. It might mean avoiding certain people who want to be friends but who are toxic.


People who write of culture speak sometimes of something being “campy,” meaning trendy. The word “camp” is used in the same way, whether by happenstance or attributable to this passage in Hebrews. In either case, this is a reminder to us that believers are called to live for Christ outside the mainstream, not caught up in the worldly culture around them, and most definitely not bringing it into the church.


“Therefore, let us go out to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach” (Heb. 13:13).


And therein lies the problem.

We don’t like to be reproached. (The word means a disgrace. ) We want to be loved and accepted by everyone, respected and admired by

insiders and outsiders, popular and acclaimed by one and all.


That can be our Achilles’ heel. The “need” to be approved by the outside world has led many a Christian into big trouble.
Our heart’s strongest desire should be to please Jesus Christ. “I delight to do thy will, O God. Thy law is within my heart” (Psalm 40:8). There is no way to over-emphasize this. God’s people have to decide to what extent they mean it when they pray “Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.” And when we sing “Have thine own way, Lord.”

Back to the above premise (that “the need to be approved by the outside world has led many a Christian into trouble”).
When a noted Christian figure (and a personal friend of mine) was named “king of (a certain) krewe)” for Mardi Gras in our city, he rode in the parade on a massive float, tossed beads to the thousands of parade-goers, and withstood the criticism. He explained to critical Christians that the stage for his witness had just been enlarged. My conclusion was (and still is): only he could decide. Maybe so, maybe not. “Unto his own master a servant stands or falls” (Romans 14:4). And I’m not his master.

Should a Christian drink socially? Go to cocktail parties? Belong to certain clubs?

Should a Christian actor take a role in a play (or movie) that is profane or otherwise unworthy? Can a Christian even work in Hollywood at all?

Here are three questions worth our considering…


1)
What has my discipleship of Jesus Christ cost me? What have I given up for Jesus’ sake?


2)
Do outsiders see me as “one of the gang” or someone set apart? (Reminder: the world “holy” literally means “set apart. I Peter 1:16 fits here.)


3) Am I straddling the fence or making a sincere attempt to walk “the strait and narrow”? (An allusion to Matthew 7:14 and Elijah’s accusation of God’s people wanting to have it both ways in I Kings 18:21.)


Article Source:
http://joemckeever.com/wp/jesus-ultimate-outsider/



 
Last edited:

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
And there came two angels to Sodom at even...
why two angels? I'm sure one would have worked... two seems to be related to judgement... there's the two witnessess in Revelation.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0

And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
The angels not only pulled Lot into the house, but they also will later grabbed Lot and his family by the hand and pulled them out of a city that was going to be consumed by fire, too. This reminds me of the passage in Jude.

For Jude 1:23 says,

"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh"

Today, believers preach the consequences of not following God (Which is destruction in the Lake of Fire). In by doing so, they are literally pulling men's souls out of the fire.

Also, in Lot's Story here in Sodom: The fact that the door was shut to these sinful men shows that they were being separated. We see a parallel of this in the Parable of the Ten Virgins. The wise virgins who had enough oil in their lamps were able to make it to the wedding on time and the door was shut behind them. But the foolish virgins did not have enough oil did not get there on time and they knocked on the door and were not able to enter. They were shut out. The foolish and sinful people of this world are shut out of God's secret place for those who are faithful to Him.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,292
29,561
113
The angels not only pulled Lot into the house, but they also will later grabbed Lot and his family by the hand and pulled them out of a city that was going to be consumed by fire, too. This reminds me of the passage in Jude.

For Jude 1:23 says,

"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh"

Today, believers preach the consequences of not following God (Which is destruction in the Lake of Fire). In by doing so, they are literally pulling men's souls out of the fire.

Also, in Lot's Story here in Sodom: The fact that the door was shut to these sinful men shows that they were being separated. We see a parallel of this in the Parable of the Ten Virgins. The wise virgins who had enough oil in their lamps were able to make it to the wedding on time and the door was shut behind them. But the foolish virgins did not have enough oil did not get there on time and they knocked on the door and were not able to enter. They were shut out. The foolish and sinful people of this world are shut out of God's secret place for those who are faithful to Him.
Same with Noah's ark: God shut the door before destroying everyone and everything not on it.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
Sin blinds a person. These men were blinded by the angels because of their sin. We also see how men are blind in the New Testament because of their sin, too.

"This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness." (Ephesians 4:17-19).
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Same with Noah's ark: God shut the door before destroying everyone and everything not on it.
Thank you Magenta. It reminds me of how Jesus is our door, too.

"I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." (John 10:9).
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
that's an interesting phrase... is it in the bible? it may be... I can't think of any passages right off...
Psalm 91:1
"He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty"

And here is a good song on this Psalm by Lincoln Brewster.

[VIDEO=youtube;YTKMJDzuU-g]https://youtu.be/YTKMJDzuU-g[/VIDEO]
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
ok, thanks... sounds like 'secret place' is paralleled by shadow of the Almighty...
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
I remember now... I learned that psalm when I was younger from a translation that used "shelter" for "secret place"...

I think in the next verse God is called a refuge and fortress...

so Secret here is probably used in the archaic sense of "sheltering" or "secure"... imo...