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I don't think there is any forcing being done to the proper translation of 2 Thess.2:3, according to the translation history of it, documented below:
2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].
The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.
In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.
Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].
Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.
From: http://www.raptureready.com/featured...onians2_3.html
"He [The Antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.
The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."
The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:
In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].
Quasar92
P
II Thessalonians 1:7 is proof positive that the rapture has to be after the Great Tribulation. Directly addressed to the church (II Thess 1:1) this tells us that the church as a whole will receive rest from tribulation (yes, it is the same Greek word thlipsis as in Matthew 24) WHEN Jesus is manifested with His mighty angels. If the rapture were before the manifestation, we would already have our rest then and would not be given our rest at the manifestation of Christ.
To rigorously complete the Biblical proof, all you have to do is add Matthew 24:29-31, which clearly puts the manifestation of Christ in glory with the angels after the Great Tribulation.
As I said, this is proof positive, and it is telling that you pretty much never hear II Thessalonians chapter 1 referred to in a teaching on prophecy. However, once you get this concept clear, ALL of the rest of the Bible verses on the Coming of Christ fit like a hand in a glove, and that is a combined proof that leaves no doubt.
I invite you all to listen to my four-part presentation Clarifying the Rapture on my YouTube Channel Mateo 11:25. Here is a link to the second part that goes through the main scriptures:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0HNTXSib24
meticulous sorting of what you are perceiving from those verses.
Of interest is 2 thes 1;6,7
Where this "rest" is showcased.( I believe you did a little conjecture in that verse)
We do agree on some things.
P
I also noticed Thomas needs a pretty good stretch to make Lot a mid trib rapture.
I see nothing at all mid trib about that.
And Noah? What is mid trib about Noah?
Also,what are millions of freshly martyred saints doing in heaven,with the martyrs fulfilled,in glorified bodies,BEFORE THE AC reign is ended??
It is easy to see why mid tribs make a huge issue over Trib/ wrath.
Mat 24 has Jesus returning AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
Jesus calls the 7 years TRIBULATION.
I see nothing at all mid trib about that.
And Noah? What is mid trib about Noah?
Also,what are millions of freshly martyred saints doing in heaven,with the martyrs fulfilled,in glorified bodies,BEFORE THE AC reign is ended??
It is easy to see why mid tribs make a huge issue over Trib/ wrath.
Mat 24 has Jesus returning AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
Jesus calls the 7 years TRIBULATION.
You know, in the KJV, there is another place translated as "falling away" but a different word is used in Greek when Jude says it. So there really should be a distinction made between them. Jude means: stumbling, sinning. And in that word, there is not the same prefix - it is "a", not "apo."
Honestly, this should be forsake, not fall away, in 2 Thess. The two words have completely different meanings and flavors but have both been translated as falling away. One is a state you are in and the other has to do with actual physicality, a place you are removing yourself from (because of "apo.""
Honestly, this should be forsake, not fall away, in 2 Thess. The two words have completely different meanings and flavors but have both been translated as falling away. One is a state you are in and the other has to do with actual physicality, a place you are removing yourself from (because of "apo.""
It would be like...the difference between saying in English - I am thirsty (a state of being, this is what I am and the condition I am in) and saying , I am leaving the desert because there is no water here.
Would both be translated as: I am thirsty? No. One pertains to a state and the other pertains to a place and leaving a place.
To move away from a coming revolt does not have the same meaning as sinning.
I kind of wish angela was here...
Would both be translated as: I am thirsty? No. One pertains to a state and the other pertains to a place and leaving a place.
To move away from a coming revolt does not have the same meaning as sinning.
I kind of wish angela was here...
Glad you are getting this right. Indeed Christianity declines big time before Christ returns. If we need any additional evidence, turn to Luke 18:7-8.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? [SUP]8 [/SUP]I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”
The avenging is the Wrath of God which happens on the Day of the Lord which of course is AFTER the Great Tribulation (attack upon Israel).
Christianity is in decline all over the world. See the below article in the Huffington Post.
The Real Reason Christianity Is Still in Decline
The Real Reason Christianity Is Still in Decline | Huffington Post
Add in Islamic attacks against Christians which will increase big time and the writing is on the wall. There are very few young people at my church and other churches we visit. It isn't cool to be a Christian they say. The "falling away" has begun. The Church isn't removed before the Day of the Lord, it just simply falls away.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? [SUP]8 [/SUP]I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”
The avenging is the Wrath of God which happens on the Day of the Lord which of course is AFTER the Great Tribulation (attack upon Israel).
Christianity is in decline all over the world. See the below article in the Huffington Post.
The Real Reason Christianity Is Still in Decline
The Real Reason Christianity Is Still in Decline | Huffington Post
Add in Islamic attacks against Christians which will increase big time and the writing is on the wall. There are very few young people at my church and other churches we visit. It isn't cool to be a Christian they say. The "falling away" has begun. The Church isn't removed before the Day of the Lord, it just simply falls away.
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The GT doesn't last 7 years. This isn't taught. The GT last just 45 days. The GT is the ISLAMIC war against Israel. I've proved this over-and-over. ISLAM attacks Israel with overwhelming forces. Before they attack, the defile the wailing wall and place the Abomination of Desolation.
Jesus teaches that once the A of D is seen, people in Judea are to flee. Do people in America need to flee because the wailing wall is defiled and Jews aren't able to pray there? Common man, its so obvious where the GT takes place a third grader could figure it out.
It would be like painting a huge Islamic Crescent and Star symbol on the Statue of Liberty. This would hopefully start a war here (although I don't know anymore). But would this event cause people in Germany to flee?
As for the length of the GT, Daniel tells us in no uncertain terms. It isn't going to be a slow 7 year attack. That wouldn't make it very great, not would it? It is a massive attack with overwhelming numbers like we saw in 1967. Only this time, Israel will not be able to win until Christ comes to help.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
The Sanctuary Fortress is first defiled, ending the daily prayer. Then 1,290 days later the A of D is set up starting the GT. Then 45 days later, Christ returns. In these 45 days two-thirds of Israel is killed and the remaining one-third are brought back to their God.
No wonder you believe in a Pre-Trib rapture when you have no idea what the GT is.
I don't think I have been saying what you think I am saying.
The chain, in reverse, of the roots and origins of what is translated as falling away in 2 Thess, is as follows:
To stand (away from) or depart from where one is.
To remove self (and instigate an uproar.)
To separate from (i.e. give a bill of divorcement.)
To forsake or leave.
It does not tell us in this verse who does the leaving or forsaking. But considering the chain as one digs back further into roots and origins of this word, (and I have simplified it and not listed it all) I do not come up with a leaving of ones faith. I come up more with whoever is doing the leaving or forsaking is the one who causes the revolt to happen. I come up with more like this one doing the forsaking is doing so as in: giving up, deserting, divorcing him or herself from.
This could go either of the ways - the way I am seeing it or the way some others see it - except for the fact that we are THEN given who the one is who ceases, departs, forsakes, is taken out of the place he stood in restraining, or leaves. This person is called "he" and "the restrainer."
Some see this "he who restrains" the man of lawless from being revealed as the church. I do not. I see this as the Holy Spirit. Given the two verses, taken together in consideration, HE is the one who forsakes so that the lawless one can be revealed.
But as I said earlier, the result is the same. It's really only worth discussion to me because I want the literal translation without anything further. I want to know what the word, simply translated, is. And I don't want two different Greek words to be translated exactly the same. That doesn't give me any distinction or nuance between two completely different words.
I don't want "forsake" to be translated the same as "sin."
It's like the reason I stopped using my NLT and went to my NASB - because I don't want what is in Greek meaning "come out of" to be translated as "died in." Whether the conclusion comes out the same or not, I want to know the literal translation and the Holy Spirit can take it from there.
My NASB doesn't say "fall away." It says "apostasy", which is at least better than falling away. Because then I can look up that the word is feminine form of the SAME AS a neuter that means: to separate (as in give a bill of divorce).
I just want a distinction to be made between words instead of translating two different words the exact same way. We aren't talking about the difference between say, thus and therefore!
The chain, in reverse, of the roots and origins of what is translated as falling away in 2 Thess, is as follows:
To stand (away from) or depart from where one is.
To remove self (and instigate an uproar.)
To separate from (i.e. give a bill of divorcement.)
To forsake or leave.
It does not tell us in this verse who does the leaving or forsaking. But considering the chain as one digs back further into roots and origins of this word, (and I have simplified it and not listed it all) I do not come up with a leaving of ones faith. I come up more with whoever is doing the leaving or forsaking is the one who causes the revolt to happen. I come up with more like this one doing the forsaking is doing so as in: giving up, deserting, divorcing him or herself from.
This could go either of the ways - the way I am seeing it or the way some others see it - except for the fact that we are THEN given who the one is who ceases, departs, forsakes, is taken out of the place he stood in restraining, or leaves. This person is called "he" and "the restrainer."
Some see this "he who restrains" the man of lawless from being revealed as the church. I do not. I see this as the Holy Spirit. Given the two verses, taken together in consideration, HE is the one who forsakes so that the lawless one can be revealed.
But as I said earlier, the result is the same. It's really only worth discussion to me because I want the literal translation without anything further. I want to know what the word, simply translated, is. And I don't want two different Greek words to be translated exactly the same. That doesn't give me any distinction or nuance between two completely different words.
I don't want "forsake" to be translated the same as "sin."
It's like the reason I stopped using my NLT and went to my NASB - because I don't want what is in Greek meaning "come out of" to be translated as "died in." Whether the conclusion comes out the same or not, I want to know the literal translation and the Holy Spirit can take it from there.
My NASB doesn't say "fall away." It says "apostasy", which is at least better than falling away. Because then I can look up that the word is feminine form of the SAME AS a neuter that means: to separate (as in give a bill of divorce).
I just want a distinction to be made between words instead of translating two different words the exact same way. We aren't talking about the difference between say, thus and therefore!
I tend to agree that the one restraining the Man of Sin is the Holy Spirit, our Helper. Since the HS resides in Believers, if Believers "fall away" or lose faith in vast numbers, the power of the HS to convict the world (unbelievers) starts to diminish. I believe this is the same message as found in Rev 11 concerning the two "witnesses," they lose their power to convict and are overcome by the (Islamic) Beast.
Christianity made up 1/3 of the world (those who identified themselves as such) until recently. Islam was at about 21% but I read recently that it is now 23.5% and climbing. This is because they are allowed to have 4 permanent wives and are instructed to breed as a way of expanding Islam. Once Islam becomes 25%, watch out.
I believe the 4th trumpet is telling us that 1/3 of Christianity grows dark. We are the "light of this world" now that Christ isn't here. This is another data point showing a falling away of faith. Just how 1/3 of us goes dark isn't said. Are we killed, silenced or do we simply fade away by 1/3?
The third trumpet is telling us with figuratively language that fresh water, i.e. "springs of living water" which also represents people who are spiritually alive are poisoned by wormwood, or unsound doctrine. This affects another third of Christianity. Now you have a two-thirds reduction in faith. This will make Islam the dominant religion on earth by far.
Once Islam is the majority religion, there will be no stopping it. People wonder why I obsess with Islam. This is why. They pretty much take over the world. The first two trumpets deal with Islam. The "great mountain" is ISLAM. The 3rd and 4th trumpets show the decline of Christianity. None of these trumpets, 1-5, are literal. All of this takes place in the spiritual realm. The reality of it is being seen now. It is happening right before our very eyes!!
Christianity made up 1/3 of the world (those who identified themselves as such) until recently. Islam was at about 21% but I read recently that it is now 23.5% and climbing. This is because they are allowed to have 4 permanent wives and are instructed to breed as a way of expanding Islam. Once Islam becomes 25%, watch out.
I believe the 4th trumpet is telling us that 1/3 of Christianity grows dark. We are the "light of this world" now that Christ isn't here. This is another data point showing a falling away of faith. Just how 1/3 of us goes dark isn't said. Are we killed, silenced or do we simply fade away by 1/3?
The third trumpet is telling us with figuratively language that fresh water, i.e. "springs of living water" which also represents people who are spiritually alive are poisoned by wormwood, or unsound doctrine. This affects another third of Christianity. Now you have a two-thirds reduction in faith. This will make Islam the dominant religion on earth by far.
Once Islam is the majority religion, there will be no stopping it. People wonder why I obsess with Islam. This is why. They pretty much take over the world. The first two trumpets deal with Islam. The "great mountain" is ISLAM. The 3rd and 4th trumpets show the decline of Christianity. None of these trumpets, 1-5, are literal. All of this takes place in the spiritual realm. The reality of it is being seen now. It is happening right before our very eyes!!
Further evidence that the "falling away" of 2 Thes 2 is a spiritual turning away from God in the last days is found in Amos 8:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord God,
“That I will send a famine on the land,
Not a famine of bread,
Nor a thirst for water,
But of hearing the words of the Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]They shall wander from sea to sea,
And from north to east;
They shall run to and fro, seeking the word of the Lord,
But shall not find it.
Compare this to the Great Multitude in heaven who were "hungry" and "thirsty." I always saw that as a spiritual hunger and thirst and not literal because once in heaven you don't have literal hunger and thirst.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord God,
“That I will send a famine on the land,
Not a famine of bread,
Nor a thirst for water,
But of hearing the words of the Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]They shall wander from sea to sea,
And from north to east;
They shall run to and fro, seeking the word of the Lord,
But shall not find it.
Compare this to the Great Multitude in heaven who were "hungry" and "thirsty." I always saw that as a spiritual hunger and thirst and not literal because once in heaven you don't have literal hunger and thirst.
A review of the translation history I gave you in #1102 refutes the idea 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8 have anything at all to do with the mistranslated "falling away," initiated in 1611 A.D. by the KJV. The passage of 2 Thess.2:1-8 is about the pre-trib rapture of the Church. That the Scriptures prophecy an apostasy in the annals of the Church in the end times is certain, that passage is not one of them.
Quasar92
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Hello Stunnedbygrace/CharlieGrown,
If the Holy Spirit wanted to infer the idea of to "snatch away" he would have used the same word as he did in the scriptures below, that word being "Harpazo":
"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."
"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows." (2 Cor.12:2)
"When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing" (Acts 8:39)
"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. "
As I stated in a previous post, the word "apostasia" can in no wise be used to infer departure up into the air. It can only be used in the sense of falling away from a previous standing in faith, departure, rebellion, a forsaking, defection, revolt, etc. This word is derived from two words 'apo - away from' and 'histemi - stand'. Properly departure (implying desertion).
By attempting to make apostasia mean to be "snatched up" in the air, would be to put that square block in the round hole. In addition to the definition of the word, you also have every major translation using the word in the sense of rebellion, revolt, falling away, defection, etc.
=========================================
New International Version
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
New Living Translation
Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction.
English Standard Version
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Berean Study Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness (the son of destruction) is revealed.
Berean Literal Bible
No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction,
New American Standard Bible
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
King James Bible
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
International Standard Version
Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, for it will not come unless the rebellion takes place first and the man of sin, who is destined for destruction, is revealed.
NET Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not arrive until the rebellion comes and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
New Heart English Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Let no man deceive you by any means, to the effect that surely no revolt will first come and The Man of Sin, The Son of Destruction, be revealed,
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Don't let anyone deceive you about this in any way. [That day cannot come unless] a revolt takes place first, and the man of sin, the man of destruction, is revealed.
New American Standard 1977
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Jubilee Bible 2000
Let no one deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
King James 2000 Bible
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
American King James Version
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
American Standard Version
let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
Douay-Rheims Bible
Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
Darby Bible Translation
Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because [it will not be] unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition;
English Revised Version
let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
Webster's Bible Translation
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Weymouth New Testament
Let no one in any way deceive you, for that day cannot come without the coming of the apostasy first, and the appearing of the man of sin, the son of perdition, who sets himself against,
World English Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,
Young's Literal Translation
let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,
If the Holy Spirit wanted to infer the idea of to "snatch away" he would have used the same word as he did in the scriptures below, that word being "Harpazo":
"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."
"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows." (2 Cor.12:2)
"When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing" (Acts 8:39)
"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. "
As I stated in a previous post, the word "apostasia" can in no wise be used to infer departure up into the air. It can only be used in the sense of falling away from a previous standing in faith, departure, rebellion, a forsaking, defection, revolt, etc. This word is derived from two words 'apo - away from' and 'histemi - stand'. Properly departure (implying desertion).
By attempting to make apostasia mean to be "snatched up" in the air, would be to put that square block in the round hole. In addition to the definition of the word, you also have every major translation using the word in the sense of rebellion, revolt, falling away, defection, etc.
=========================================
New International Version
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
New Living Translation
Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction.
English Standard Version
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Berean Study Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness (the son of destruction) is revealed.
Berean Literal Bible
No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction,
New American Standard Bible
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
King James Bible
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
International Standard Version
Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, for it will not come unless the rebellion takes place first and the man of sin, who is destined for destruction, is revealed.
NET Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not arrive until the rebellion comes and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
New Heart English Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Let no man deceive you by any means, to the effect that surely no revolt will first come and The Man of Sin, The Son of Destruction, be revealed,
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Don't let anyone deceive you about this in any way. [That day cannot come unless] a revolt takes place first, and the man of sin, the man of destruction, is revealed.
New American Standard 1977
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
Jubilee Bible 2000
Let no one deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
King James 2000 Bible
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
American King James Version
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
American Standard Version
let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
Douay-Rheims Bible
Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
Darby Bible Translation
Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because [it will not be] unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition;
English Revised Version
let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,
Webster's Bible Translation
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Weymouth New Testament
Let no one in any way deceive you, for that day cannot come without the coming of the apostasy first, and the appearing of the man of sin, the son of perdition, who sets himself against,
World English Bible
Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,
Young's Literal Translation
let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,
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What is obvious to you and obvious to others are not necessarily the same. To you a pre-trib Rapture is obvious. To me, a post trib Rapture is obvious. Obviously they are in spiritual bodies when they are spiritually fed. It is obvious when their tears are wiped from the context.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
While not said, there will be no more of this nonsense about a pre-trib rapture either
.I agree that I myself found no evidence of this as I studied the word. But I am no scholar and if someone thinks a strong case can be made for it, I'm all ears.
What I DO find evidence for is that the word, in conjunction with the following verses about the restrainer, could very likely mean the Holy Spirit is the one who forsakes,departs, divorces, ceases (to restrain any longer.)
Additionally, I found strong evidence in my study, because of the prefix of "apo," that this word means more of a physical, time and space thing than it does a spiritual thing.
The other thing I learned is that in the only other instances that this exact word is used in the NT, it is translated as 1, divorce and 2. forsake.
In an instance elsewhere where falling is the translation, it is a DIFFERENT greek word.
I believe the translators should have made a distinction between the two different words and that in this particular place, the word does NOT connote falling away in a spiritual sense, but falling away as in a physical removing of oneself. The word would be more accurately translated as forsaking.
But as I said, even though this is Who I believe the word pertains to, it is a bit of a moot point because the end result is the same. If He departs, I will depart, because He has promised to never forsake me.