A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?
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K
[h=3]THE LEGEND OF ST. THECLA[/h]The legend of St. Thecla has endeared itself to modern women as well as to their earlier counterparts. It is the bestknown of the numerous apocryphal stories of early Christian heroines. According to the 3rd century text of The Acts of Paul, Thecla, a noblewoman, was converted while listening to the preaching of the apostle. Forsaking her old life, she followed Paul and endured persecution, tribulation and great peril. The story resembles the ancient pagan romances in the repetition of hair’s-breadth escapes, the fortitude and nobility displayed by both hero and heroine, and the happy ending. It is, however, a Christianized romance, as are several other of the apocryphal Acts and The Recognitions of Peter.
Thecla appears as a truly heroic character who endures all manner of suffering for the sake of Christ. After her itineration through Asia Minor with the Apostle Paul, she settles near Seleucia, where she teaches, preaches, heals and baptizes. Tertullian, incensed that Montanist women used her as a model, declared that a deacon had confessed that he fabricated the story “for love of Paul.” William M. Ramsay maintained that The Acts of Paul contained an authentic 1stcentury account, which had been outrageously embellished by the 3rd-century deacon. Dennis McDonald has pointed out that, though the story is almost surely fictitious, this does not obviate the existence of an actual female leader of that name.
Both Gregory of Nazianzus and Basil of Caesarea spoke of Thecla as a historical figure. Writing in the 300s, they described her teaching center and hospital near Seleucia. The pilgrim Egeria visited this facility in 399 A.D., and also described its monasteries, convents and assembly buildings, along with the teaching and healing ministries that went on there. The German team that excavated the center in 1908 found the apse still standing above the ground, with the main basilica’s outlines covering a space equal to that of a football field. The excavators also found numerous cisterns, apparently for washing the sick, two other churches, and many fine mosaics. The center apparently was in active use for at least 1,000 years, indicating the presence in Asia Minor of an extremely strong female leader.
Thecla appears as a truly heroic character who endures all manner of suffering for the sake of Christ. After her itineration through Asia Minor with the Apostle Paul, she settles near Seleucia, where she teaches, preaches, heals and baptizes. Tertullian, incensed that Montanist women used her as a model, declared that a deacon had confessed that he fabricated the story “for love of Paul.” William M. Ramsay maintained that The Acts of Paul contained an authentic 1stcentury account, which had been outrageously embellished by the 3rd-century deacon. Dennis McDonald has pointed out that, though the story is almost surely fictitious, this does not obviate the existence of an actual female leader of that name.
Both Gregory of Nazianzus and Basil of Caesarea spoke of Thecla as a historical figure. Writing in the 300s, they described her teaching center and hospital near Seleucia. The pilgrim Egeria visited this facility in 399 A.D., and also described its monasteries, convents and assembly buildings, along with the teaching and healing ministries that went on there. The German team that excavated the center in 1908 found the apse still standing above the ground, with the main basilica’s outlines covering a space equal to that of a football field. The excavators also found numerous cisterns, apparently for washing the sick, two other churches, and many fine mosaics. The center apparently was in active use for at least 1,000 years, indicating the presence in Asia Minor of an extremely strong female leader.
Deborah lived in the Old Testament era. Had she lived in the New Testament
era; she would have been subject to Jesus Christ's and Paul the apostle's
rules governing the conduct of females in church; which are:
†. 1Cor 11:3 . . But I would have you know, that the head of every man is
Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is
God.
†. 1Cor 11:7-9 . . For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch
as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was
the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
†. 1Tim 2:11-13 . . Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I
suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be
in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
†. 1Cor 14:34-35 . . Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is
not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under
obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask
their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Paul's rules are Christ's rules.
†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.
†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
Females who refuse to comply with Christ's rules will be given neither
recognition nor reward.
†. 2Tim 2:5 . . If anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the
victor's crown unless he competes according to the rules.
Females who refuse to comply with Christ's rules, refuse because they don't
like him.
†. John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.
†. John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one
who loves me.
†. John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who
does not love me will not obey my teaching.
Females who refuse to comply with Christ's rules are Christ's enemies.
†. John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.
=======================================
era; she would have been subject to Jesus Christ's and Paul the apostle's
rules governing the conduct of females in church; which are:
†. 1Cor 11:3 . . But I would have you know, that the head of every man is
Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is
God.
†. 1Cor 11:7-9 . . For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch
as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was
the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
†. 1Tim 2:11-13 . . Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I
suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be
in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
†. 1Cor 14:34-35 . . Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is
not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under
obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask
their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Paul's rules are Christ's rules.
†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.
†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
Females who refuse to comply with Christ's rules will be given neither
recognition nor reward.
†. 2Tim 2:5 . . If anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the
victor's crown unless he competes according to the rules.
Females who refuse to comply with Christ's rules, refuse because they don't
like him.
†. John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.
†. John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one
who loves me.
†. John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who
does not love me will not obey my teaching.
Females who refuse to comply with Christ's rules are Christ's enemies.
†. John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.
=======================================
K
Females who refuse to comply with His rules do so because they dont like him? So all ordained female ministers dont like Jesus,is that what you're proposing? All those who feel the call to ministry don't like Jesus,is that it? Are we Christians or Muslims,someone enlighten me here.I cant tell the difference in this thread.Men look a little deeper into the translation of these scriptures please.Some of you need to think this through a little harder.
You speak like a man to whom no degree of authority can be entrusted.
Women have a great deal of influence in the marriage relationship. They seem to manage quite well from a subordinate position in the marriage. I have learned not to disrespect my wife's opinion on important matters. She respects mine on Spiritual matters. God is honored when all authority is in submission to Him.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Women have a great deal of influence in the marriage relationship. They seem to manage quite well from a subordinate position in the marriage. I have learned not to disrespect my wife's opinion on important matters. She respects mine on Spiritual matters. God is honored when all authority is in submission to Him.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
No sorry wrong. First God enables the donkey to talk. Second donkeys do not have cognitive thought they have instinctual thought. So the donkey could not be "speaking" her thoughts as donkeys, or any other animal for that matter, do not have a processing thought. It's pure instinct. Hungry...eat, thirsty...drink, danger...run. it's God speaking thru the donkey.
The donkey saw the angel of the Lord blocking the way. God gave voice to the donkey because of the hardness of Balaams heart.
Didn't Jesus say if the people did not cheer His entrance into Jerusalem that the rocks would cry out? What part of Gods creation is not obedient to His will? Man in most cases.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Didn't Jesus say if the people did not cheer His entrance into Jerusalem that the rocks would cry out? What part of Gods creation is not obedient to His will? Man in most cases.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
K
I'd be lying if I said that I haven't considered as much. It would be near impossible not to at least consider this if one were to spend even a minimal amount of effort looking into the matter. But most won't. Frankly speaking, the culprit is male pride imo. It's fine and good to learn from a studied and astute Godly woman ... but only if she understands that she has not been ordained of God ??
Who is the "priesthood" in that verse?
Men only?
Does that "priesthood" have to be ordained?
A certain poster on this thread has an obsession with the word "ordained."
So does the Catholic Church, and certain other denominations, as in, the traditions of men.
And what about John 15:16: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you ..."
Are only men being "ordained" in that verse?
Men only?
Does that "priesthood" have to be ordained?
A certain poster on this thread has an obsession with the word "ordained."
So does the Catholic Church, and certain other denominations, as in, the traditions of men.
And what about John 15:16: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you ..."
Are only men being "ordained" in that verse?