A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

[MarcR]

The problem with this is that Mathias was named among the original 12 to replace Judas before Paul became an apostle.

Second, the bible speaks of more apostles then just the original 12, as Luke 10:1 shows the Lord appointed 70 more. And other scriptures name other apostles, as Timothy was an apostle as well.

That is of course true. The twelve elected Mathias; but IMO Jesus overrode them and elected Paul.
If you think the eleven were incapable of such an error; remember that they had not yet received the guidance of the Holy Spirit; and the gospels record far worse errors.

 

[MarcR]

I can not see Jesus saying women can not preach, if it was such a big issue Jesus would be saying stuff about it. Instead Jesus liberated women and used women in a way which was rebellious against the law and the culture of the day.

I agree that Jesus didn't deal with the issue; but that doesn't mean that Paul lacked the authority to do so.

either all 66 books of the Nicene Cannon are authoritative or we have nothing to base our lives on.

 

[kennethcadwell]

That is of course true. The twelve elected Mathias; but IMO Jesus overrode them and elected Paul.
If you think the eleven were incapable of such an error; remember that they had not yet received the guidance of the Holy Spirit; and the gospels record far worse errors.

Where do you get that God overrode their decision and picked Paul instead, as Acts 1:24 shows the apostles prayed to the Lord to guide them on who to choose. God choose Mathias at this time, and Paul was chosen an apostle later but that did not discount Mathias as being one still.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Where do you get that God overrode their decision and picked Paul instead, as Acts 1:24 shows the apostles prayed to the Lord to guide them on who to choose. God choose Mathias at this time, and Paul was chosen an apostle later but that did not discount Mathias as being one still.

And I wanted to add the 11 by God choose Mathias, as Judas was already dead at this point so he could not have been part of it and Paul had not been appointed yet.

 

[MarcR]

Kenneth,

In such a case it was still the 12 plus Paul. I might very well be wrong in my impression that Jesus overrode the 12; but I believe my basic premise is sound.l

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth,

In such a case it was still the 12 plus Paul. I might very well be wrong in my impression that Jesus overrode the 12; but I believe my basic premise is sound.l

[h=1]Acts 1:24-26[/h]24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen

25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.”

26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

 

[Utah]

After 52 pages I have two questions for those who deem women are not to be ministers:

1. If Robert the man becomes Roberta the woman, can this individual be a minister?
2. If Roberta the woman becomes Robert the man, can this individual be a minister?

 

[john832]

That is of course true. The twelve elected Mathias; but IMO Jesus overrode them and elected Paul.
If you think the eleven were incapable of such an error; remember that they had not yet received the guidance of the Holy Spirit; and the gospels record far worse errors.

No, they did not elect Mathias...

Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

They cast lots and Mathias was chosen by God. Casting lots is one of God's ways of revealing His will.

 

[presidente]

Judas was dead when Jesus appeared to the 11. Matthias was also a witness of the resurrection.

In I Corinthians 12, Paul says that Jesus appeared to the 12 before appearing to him. He implicitly accepts Matthias as one of the 12 and excludes himself from that number.

 

[presidente]

What do you tell a woman, for example, who just graduated from a Christian college with an advanced degree who wants to enter the ministry?

You can tell her the same thing you can tell a man who does the same thing. An advanced degree is not a Biblical qualification for being an overseer in the church.

 

[MarcR]

I have already conceeded that I was mistaken!

I still think my comment about 2 different uses of the word Apostle is sound

 

[Utah]

You can tell her the same thing you can tell a man who does the same thing. An advanced degree is not a Biblical qualification for being an overseer in the church.

Presidente, that's not answering the heart of the question.

 

[MarcR]

After 52 pages I have two questions for those who deem women are not to be ministers:

1. If Robert the man becomes Roberta the woman, can this individual be a minister?
2. If Roberta the woman becomes Robert the man, can this individual be a minister?

Utah,

I think that anyone who has so little respect for God's design that they would change their gender are unqualified to represent God in the pulpit on that basis alone.

 

[MarcR]

I have already conceeded that I was mistaken!

I still think my comment about 2 different uses of the word Apostle is sound

I don't know what gave me the impression that the 11 got ahead of the Lord; but I realize that I don't have sufficient foundation for it.

 

[Utah]

Utah,

I think that anyone who has so little respect for God's design that they would change their gender are unqualified to represent God in the pulpit on that basis alone.

I agree with you, my Brother. I feel that a person who would go to such extremes is not emotionally fit for the ministry. However, you said the magic phrase, "change their gender". Does changing gender lead to different viewpoints (emotional stability aside).

 

[presidente]

Utah, a man cannot become a woman, and a woman cannot become a man. You could go to the doctor and have him hack up your private parts and make them look like something else if you want. A man can become a mutilated eunuch. But he can't become a woman. Your DNA gives you away.

If a crazy mad scientist doctor kidnapped you and cut stuff off and changed things around down there, would that change your gender?

 

[presidente]

Presidente, that's not answering the heart of the question.

Thanks for not responding to my point either.


When we read posts, we pick out the parts we think are important, interesting, or relevant and respond to that. Everyone does that.

 

[phil112]

.............. Everyone does that.

..........

 

[MarcR]

I agree with you, my Brother. I feel that a person who would go to such extremes is not emotionally fit for the ministry. However, you said the magic phrase, "change their gender". Does changing gender lead to different viewpoints (emotional stability aside).

You raised the issue of gender change in your question. My answer would be the same if you had used any other example of thinking you have a better idea than what God chose.

 

[VioletReigns]

I don't know what gave me the impression that the 11 got ahead of the Lord; but I realize that I don't have sufficient foundation for it.

Wow, well bless the Lord Jesus! You don't see much conceding on this site. It's always awesome to see someone actually leading by example. I give God all the glory for His meek and kind spirit in you.. but thank you brother Marc for posting such a humble response. \/