About the rapture

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L

LovingtheLord

Guest
#1
I see some people agreeing and disagreeing on regards to the rapture, let's take a look.

Luke 17
. 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

I have seen people depict it as a physical rapture, from here it looks like a rapture of the soul to me. (your body is not good enough to be raptured into heaven)

Houses have roofs, if it is a phyisical rapture you would slap right on your roof.

34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

The night being talked about is the night the Son of Man will be revealed according to Luke 17.

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

Could a reason for people turning away from the faith be because they expected a rapture?

13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.


17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

When Jesus comes he will raise the dead in Christ and people still alive will be rapture with the dead in Christ, this is what the verse above is saying.

Anyone got anything to add or oppose?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#2
I see some people agreeing and disagreeing on regards to the rapture, let's take a look.

Luke 17
. 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

I have seen people depict it as a physical rapture, from here it looks like a rapture of the soul to me. (your body is not good enough to be raptured into heaven)

Houses have roofs, if it is a phyisical rapture you would slap right on your roof.

34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

The night being talked about is the night the Son of Man will be revealed according to Luke 17.

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

Could a reason for people turning away from the faith be because they expected a rapture?

13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.


17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

When Jesus comes he will raise the dead in Christ and people still alive will be rapture with the dead in Christ, this is what the verse above is saying.

Anyone got anything to add or oppose?

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."



Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”

perhaps we want to be left behind?
 

Shilo

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,974
102
63
#3
This is my understanding
You have to use the whole time line given in Daniel 12 The 1335 days

day 1260 - the marriage of the Lamb in heaven for 30 days , The beam seat judgment. We have a GOD full of mercy and the people who helped his children will by no means lose their reward mark 9:41. After the Rapture they have 30 days to wait for the LORD.

day 1290 antichrist false prophect into lake of fire

Day 1290-1335 the great Exodus ( move to the promise land) This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples; they will bring your sons in their arms and carry your daughters on their shoulders Is 49:22 .Isaiah 43:6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth. The People here are the remnant of the earth that will be the people of the milennium. Blessed are those who do not see and yet believe. So The LORD will have 2 sets of people. The ones changed at the rapture into the likeness of Jesus and the ones who keep thier bodies and repopulate the earth in the Milennium.

0-1000 milennium

2nd ressurection

new beginning

From reading Zechariah 14:1-20 It looks like this is a short list of
what will happen in the end time.. In Zechariah 14:5 all the saints are
with Him. We also know there is only 2 ressurections. The 2 witnesses
do the LORD's work for 3 1/2 years and then they are ressurected with a
great earthquake. At this time in revelation 11 we are also told about
7,000 people that should take our mind back to Elijah and the other
7000 who did not bend the knee to baal. In Zechariah 14:5 there is
another great earthquake and that is the second coming. So after the
1260 days ( the being caught up) there is 75 days left. Blessed is he
who makes it to the 1335 day ( Daniel 12:12) they are the remnant of
the millennium that are talked about in Zechariah 14. That is how I
understand 1 Thessalonians 4:17. So if you find another answer that
fits with the Bible I would love to hear it.
 
Feb 16, 2011
2,957
24
0
#4
I believe in the physical rapture, which includes the body, soul, and spirit. God can do anything. Just the fact that it happens in a moment in the twinkling of an eye should tell you it is supernatural. We will meet the Lord in the air. How God does it is His buisness.
 
B

bbAndrew4

Guest
#5
Luke 17
. 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

I have seen people depict it as a physical rapture, from here it looks like a rapture of the soul to me. (your body is not good enough to be raptured into heaven)

Houses have roofs, if it is a phyisical rapture you would slap right on your roof.
Luke 24
2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
3And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

When Jesus rose from the dead, he took his body with him. I don't think He slapped into the roof of the sealed tomb.


John 20:26-27

26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the

doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand,

and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Jesus appeared to Thomas and the disciples in a room with a closed door, yet Thomas was able to touch him.


Philippians 3
20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
This seems to say that we our old bodies will be changed into a body that is like Jesus'.
 
L

LovingtheLord

Guest
#6
This is my understanding
You have to use the whole time line given in Daniel 12 The 1335 days

day 1260 - the marriage of the Lamb in heaven for 30 days , The beam seat judgment. We have a GOD full of mercy and the people who helped his children will by no means lose their reward mark 9:41. After the Rapture they have 30 days to wait for the LORD.

day 1290 antichrist false prophect into lake of fire

Day 1290-1335 the great Exodus ( move to the promise land) This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples; they will bring your sons in their arms and carry your daughters on their shoulders Is 49:22 .Isaiah 43:6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth. The People here are the remnant of the earth that will be the people of the milennium. Blessed are those who do not see and yet believe. So The LORD will have 2 sets of people. The ones changed at the rapture into the likeness of Jesus and the ones who keep thier bodies and repopulate the earth in the Milennium.

0-1000 milennium

2nd ressurection

new beginning

From reading Zechariah 14:1-20 It looks like this is a short list of
what will happen in the end time.. In Zechariah 14:5 all the saints are
with Him. We also know there is only 2 ressurections. The 2 witnesses
do the LORD's work for 3 1/2 years and then they are ressurected with a
great earthquake. At this time in revelation 11 we are also told about
7,000 people that should take our mind back to Elijah and the other
7000 who did not bend the knee to baal. In Zechariah 14:5 there is
another great earthquake and that is the second coming. So after the
1260 days ( the being caught up) there is 75 days left. Blessed is he
who makes it to the 1335 day ( Daniel 12:12) they are the remnant of
the millennium that are talked about in Zechariah 14. That is how I
understand 1 Thessalonians 4:17. So if you find another answer that
fits with the Bible I would love to hear it.
Thanks for this, it helped!
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#7
Matthew 24:37-41
(37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
(39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(40) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Genesis 7:23
(23) And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

So if we let the Bible speak to us we do not want to be taken we want to be left, those who are taken will be destroyed.
 
D

DaivdM

Guest
#8
Matthew 24:37-41
(37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
(39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(40) Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(41) Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Genesis 7:23
(23) And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

So if we let the Bible speak to us we do not want to be taken we want to be left, those who are taken will be destroyed.
Those who are taken will be destroy?
Isn't this the samething you use to prove me wrong but you couldnt?

leke I said
Flood and fire means Tribulation?
they are symbolic....
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#9
Those who are taken will be destroy?
Isn't this the samething you use to prove me wrong but you couldnt?

leke I said
Flood and fire means Tribulation?
they are symbolic....
It is not that I couldn't it is that you do not believe the Bible, you put your interpretation into the Bible instead of letting the Bible speak. What is leke?
 
Jul 30, 2010
882
4
0
#10
This is my understanding
You have to use the whole time line given in Daniel 12 The 1335 days
Hi Shilo, have another look into it. I'm just trying to help ok. You can make your own mind up, but go over it again and again and again and consider this.

The 1335 day is the day when Christ returns.

day 1260 - the marriage of the Lamb in heaven for 30 days , The beam seat judgment. We have a GOD full of mercy and the people who helped his children will by no means lose their reward mark 9:41. After the Rapture they have 30 days to wait for the LORD.
Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

How will the saints be purified and made white, and tried?
They will refuse the mark of the beast. They will be persecuted.

5th Seal
Rev 6;9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held.

Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying How long, O Lord, holy and true, does thou not judge, and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth

Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fullfilled.

There is no rapture happening here. Just persecution for the time being.

The false prophet will Attack Israel. He will be there for 3 1/2 years (1290 days)

He will start to build his own temple there, in Jerusalem. And he plans to sit in that temple as God. This is an abomination to the Lord. This is the abomination which makes desolate. All the people who elected and worshipped and adored this man are made desolate (dry, thirsty of truth & knowledge, lost, in darkness) and this man with his high power causes desolation unto himself and the whole world.

Daniel 12:7 .......that it shall be for a time, times, and a half (3 1/2 years); and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

What is the power of the holy people? It is the power the Lord gives us to to cast out or rebuke the devil so he cannot touch us, but during this time, things have to be fulfilled, so we have to go with God's plan and not against it. The Lord will be with us however, we will not be alone.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate SET up, there shall be a thousand and two hundred and ninety days (1290 days)

So if the false prophet is going into Israel for 3 1/2 years (1290 days) then we only have to wait for the 1335 day. Which is another 45 days after the 3 1/2 years when the temple is completed.

This is when Christ will come, and the dead will be risen and those that are alive in Christ will be picked up to meet with Christ in the air. On this 1335 day.

day 1290 antichrist false prophect into lake of fire
The false prophet is thrown into the lake of fire at Christ's coming - Day 1335

Day 1290-1335 the great Exodus ( move to the promise land)
This is not the great exodus. Nor when the gentiles came to Christ, For the days mentioned in Daniel are talking about the end times when Christ returns. And the verses you mention below are talking about after Christ returns and sets up his kingdom for a thousand years here in Jerusalem.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I will beckon to the Gentiles, I will lift up my banner to the peoples; they will bring your sons in their arms and carry your daughters on their shoulders Is 49:22
When Christ returns, he is not going to kill everybody. Yes he will destroy here and there and bring down every single building that stands, but there are going to be survivors. Everyone single person on earth will witness Christ's coming. They will see him in all his glory and they will be terrified and say "ooh no, we made a big boo boo, this is the real Christ"

So when Christ sets his kingdom up, all those with the mark will be humbled. They cannot however come to live in the kingdom but they can come in and learn, Christ will give them mercy too. They have a chance now to change their ways and feed of the truth.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

You see, there are going to be nations around still after Christ comes. He's destroying weapons. He restores peace.

ISAIAH 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be establishedin the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.


Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth SHALL be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

.Isaiah 43:6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth. The People here are the remnant of the earth that will be the people of the milennium. Blessed are those who do not see and yet believe. So The LORD will have 2 sets of people. The ones changed at the rapture into the likeness of Jesus and the ones who keep thier bodies and repopulate the earth in the Milennium.
Yes, yes, praise the Lord.

0-1000 milennium
Yes
2nd ressurection
Yes
new beginning
Yes. Now the earth will be melted. New Heavens and New Earth

From reading Zechariah 14:1-20 It looks like this is a short list of
what will happen in the end time.. In Zechariah 14:5 all the saints are
with Him.
Yes, Amen
We also know there is only 2 ressurections. The 2 witnesses
do the LORD's work for 3 1/2 years and then they are ressurected with a
great earthquake.
Yes, Amen
At this time in revelation 11 we are also told about
7,000 people that should take our mind back to Elijah and the other
7000 who did not bend the knee to baal.
? All I know is that 7000 people die in this earthquake.
In Zechariah 14:5 there is
another great earthquake and that is the second coming.
Yes, this is the same earthquake as above and all the saints will be with Christ. Amen.

So after the
1260 days ( the being caught up) there is 75 days left.
After the 1290 days, when false prophet attacks Israel, there is 45 days left which brings us to the 1335 day. Christs coming.

Blessed is he
who makes it to the 1335 day ( Daniel 12:12) they are the remnant of
the millennium that are talked about in Zechariah 14.
The only christians who will be alive at Christ's coming will be the 144,000 (the sealed ones) God's very elect. The rest of the christians are persecuted. They will be raised.
That is how I
understand 1 Thessalonians 4:17. So if you find another answer that
fits with the Bible I would love to hear it.
[/QUOTE]God bless you sister. You are really searching here and getting into the hard stuff. I hope I made sense. You really got me opening up my bible here! Thankyou.
 

Shilo

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,974
102
63
#11
Thanks for the information Journey it is nice to be able to have a discussion on this with out being attacked. You are right I did the time wrong at first but so did you. 3 1/2 years in the Bible is based on the hebrew calender of 30 day to a month. That makes both the 42 months and the 3 1/2 years the same it does not change from 1260 for the witnesses and then 1290 for the antichrist. You can see it better if you take some paper and draw a line a cross the top for the 1335 days.
In the bible the LORD said he does nothing without telling his prophets first ( Amos 3:7). The next line would be the 2 witnesses at the start of the 1335 days for the 3 1/2 years or 1260 days.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. so Daniel 11:31 Shows the anti Christ is already in power and doing war before his 3 1/2 years start (1260 days). So 3/ 1/2 years is 1260 days we know that from when he enters the temple there is 1290 days left. So that means there is 30 days on the end for the exodus.
Draw a line and leave the 30 days on the end for the exodus and you can see that that there is an over lap of time from when the 2 witnesses are raptured up to heaven(45 days). Like moses 40 days with GOD on the Mountain.

God's people are going through the tribulation and this is how. Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried.

5th Seal
Rev 6;9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held.

This is a hebrew idiom, This is saints in Israel but martydom will reach all parts of the world.

The anti christ does not build his own temple. 2thess 2:4 He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God this is the start of the 1260 days for antichrist.

For I, the LORD, do not change . . . Mal. 3:6 so that means if 3 1/2 years is 1260days in one place in his word it is the same in all his word.

Rev 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of fire. So they are put in the lake of fire on day 1305. When the LORD comes back with his saints.This is Zachariah 14:5 you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with him.

We also know there are only 2 ressurections. The 2 witnesses are ressureected so if God's people do not go with them then there will be 3 ressuretions and that is not in line with the word.

1 thess 4:16-1716 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. There is a rapture or a being caught up. Everything the LORD does as a purpose we have to take all that is said about it.


Rev 19:7-8 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his bride hath made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

In the Jewish wedding the bridegroom comes as a theif in the night to his brides house and calls for her and waits outside for her to come. Then she is taken to his house.

I do not know how many christians will be alive at Christ's coming I do belive it will be a small number. The 144,000 Sealed ones of God could be all there is because the persecution is so great. This only list the natural line of Israel. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and he seems to say there will be some of them left. 1Thess 4:17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. There is a rapture or a being caught up. Everything the LORD does as a purpose we have to take all that is said about it.

In Revelation 11 we are also told about 7,000 people that should take our mind back to Elijah and the other 7000 who did not bend the knee to baal.
One of the 2 witnesses will come in the Spirit of Elijah. Elijah was raptured in 2 Kings 2.

1 kings 19:18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel--all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and all whose mouths have not kissed him.

Romans 11:3 -5
3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me, too.”[a]
4 And do you remember God’s reply? He said, “No, I have 7,000 others who have never bowed down to Baal!”[b]5 It is the same today, for a few of the people of Israel[c] have remained faithful because of God’s grace—his undeserved kindness in choosing them.

Not even God's people will know how many of them are left. They most likely will feel like Elijah who felt he was all alone.

Rev11:11-14
11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

So there is a ressurection here and we know there are only 2 ressurections.

A tenth is the Tithing or the LORD's portion.

7000 thousand takes you to the faith to the LORD did not bend the knee.. Because all the numbers are zeros we look at the number 7 and that is the number of completion. God has taken his faithful portion.

After this there is still one more woe for the people left on the earth.


 
Jul 30, 2010
882
4
0
#12
Thanks for the information Journey it is nice to be able to have a discussion on this with out being attacked. You are right I did the time wrong at first but so did you. 3 1/2 years in the Bible is based on the hebrew calender of 30 day to a month. That makes both the 42 months and the 3 1/2 years the same it does not change from 1260 for the witnesses and then 1290 for the antichrist. You can see it better if you take some paper and draw a line a cross the top for the 1335 days.
In the bible the LORD said he does nothing without telling his prophets first ( Amos 3:7). The next line would be the 2 witnesses at the start of the 1335 days for the 3 1/2 years or 1260 days.
Thank you Shilo. I will definately have a look into this and get back to you.
 
P

peterT

Guest
#13
I see some people agreeing and disagreeing on regards to the rapture, let's take a look.

Luke 17
. 34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

I have seen people depict it as a physical rapture, from here it looks like a rapture of the soul to me. (your body is not good enough to be raptured into heaven)

Houses have roofs, if it is a phyisical rapture you would slap right on your roof.

34I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left.

The night being talked about is the night the Son of Man will be revealed according to Luke 17.

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

Could a reason for people turning away from the faith be because they expected a rapture?

13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.


17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

When Jesus comes he will raise the dead in Christ and people still alive will be rapture with the dead in Christ, this is what the verse above is saying.

Anyone got anything to add or oppose?
You make that sound so much like a post-tribulation coming.

And it sounds just like matt24.

Matt24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in
heaven:

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#14
There will be a resurrection of the saints,where the saints will go to be with Jesus,where they will have their works judged,and receive their glorified body,and then come back with Jesus who will fight the world,and put down the kingdom of man and rule over one sixth of the world that He fought against for 1000 years.

Zechariah 14

1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.


God is going to allow the nations of the world to come together and attack Israel,then God will fight the world and put them down,and save Israel,which is the battle of armageddon.



4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.



God will come with His saints when He fights the world,so God would of had to resurrect them first for the saints to be with God when He comes to fight the world.


6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.



Jesus will then rule the world and the world will recognize no other God but Jesus.All false gods will not be recognized.
 
P

peterT

Guest
#15
Thanks for the information Journey it is nice to be able to have a discussion on this with out being attacked. You are right I did the time wrong at first but so did you. 3 1/2 years in the Bible is based on the hebrew calender of 30 day to a month. That makes both the 42 months and the 3 1/2 years the same it does not change from 1260 for the witnesses and then 1290 for the antichrist. You can see it better if you take some paper and draw a line a cross the top for the 1335 days.
In the bible the LORD said he does nothing without telling his prophets first ( Amos 3:7). The next line would be the 2 witnesses at the start of the 1335 days for the 3 1/2 years or 1260 days.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. so Daniel 11:31 Shows the anti Christ is already in power and doing war before his 3 1/2 years start (1260 days). So 3/ 1/2 years is 1260 days we know that from when he enters the temple there is 1290 days left. So that means there is 30 days on the end for the exodus.
Draw a line and leave the 30 days on the end for the exodus and you can see that that there is an over lap of time from when the 2 witnesses are raptured up to heaven(45 days). Like moses 40 days with GOD on the Mountain.

God's people are going through the tribulation and this is how. Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried.

5th Seal
Rev 6;9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held.
This is a hebrew idiom, This is saints in Israel but martydom will reach all parts of the world.

The anti christ does not build his own temple. 2thess 2:4 He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God this is the start of the 1260 days for antichrist.

For I, the LORD, do not change . . . Mal. 3:6 so that means if 3 1/2 years is 1260days in one place in his word it is the same in all his word.

Rev 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of fire. So they are put in the lake of fire on day 1305. When the LORD comes back with his saints.This is Zachariah 14:5 you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with him.

We also know there are only 2 ressurections. The 2 witnesses are ressureected so if God's people do not go with them then there will be 3 ressuretions and that is not in line with the word.

1 thess 4:16-1716 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. There is a rapture or a being caught up. Everything the LORD does as a purpose we have to take all that is said about it.


Rev 19:7-8 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his bride hath made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

In the Jewish wedding the bridegroom comes as a theif in the night to his brides house and calls for her and waits outside for her to come. Then she is taken to his house.

I do not know how many christians will be alive at Christ's coming I do belive it will be a small number. The 144,000 Sealed ones of God could be all there is because the persecution is so great. This only list the natural line of Israel. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and he seems to say there will be some of them left. 1Thess 4:17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. There is a rapture or a being caught up. Everything the LORD does as a purpose we have to take all that is said about it.

In Revelation 11 we are also told about 7,000 people that should take our mind back to Elijah and the other 7000 who did not bend the knee to baal.
One of the 2 witnesses will come in the Spirit of Elijah. Elijah was raptured in 2 Kings 2.

1 kings 19:18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel--all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and all whose mouths have not kissed him.

Romans 11:3 -5
3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me, too.”[a]
4 And do you remember God’s reply? He said, “No, I have 7,000 others who have never bowed down to Baal!”[b]5 It is the same today, for a few of the people of Israel[c] have remained faithful because of God’s grace—his undeserved kindness in choosing them.

Not even God's people will know how many of them are left. They most likely will feel like Elijah who felt he was all alone.

Rev11:11-14
11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

So there is a ressurection here and we know there are only 2 ressurections.

A tenth is the Tithing or the LORD's portion.

7000 thousand takes you to the faith to the LORD did not bend the knee.. Because all the numbers are zeros we look at the number 7 and that is the number of completion. God has taken his faithful portion.

After this there is still one more woe for the people left on the earth.
All the evidence shows Jesus coming at the 1260 days NOT the 1335 days.

It just happens that Jesus comes in the clouds.

It just happens that Jesus comes at the last trumpet.

It just happens that Jesus comes with the voice of the archangel..

It just happens that Jesus raze the dead first.

It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead. At 1260 days

It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither. At 1260 days

It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds At 1260 days

It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet At 1260 days.

It just happens that the woman fled into the wilderness from the face of the serpent.for 1260 days


Daniel 12:12 Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days

Who is left?

Blessed are they that are left and Not taken the mark of the beast
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#16
It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed from the dead. At 1260 days

It just happens that the two end time prophets hear a voce saying come up hither. At 1260 days

It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed in the clouds At 1260 days

It just happens that the two end time prophets are razed at the sound of the last trumpet At 1260 days.
Peter T, have you considered that the book of Revelation is in symbols and the 2 witnesses could also be symbolic?
 

Shilo

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,974
102
63
#17
Please Do Not take what I have said as the only Answer. This is just My thoughts this was a discussion about the rapture. I am not a preacher and the LORD has said many times in his word that after something has happened then you will know. So we learn the prophecy so when it does come about we can see it and grow our faith. Please know that this discussion did not talk about all the last day things that are to happen so it is incomplete. We also do not know at what point the 2 witnesses come into the last days we only know that they are going to help clear up a lot of wrong ideology and give understanding to the whole true chruch of GOD. I am sorry and did not mean for this to be taken as doctrine.

Thanks for the information Journey it is nice to be able to have a discussion on this with out being attacked. You are right I did the time wrong at first but so did you. 3 1/2 years in the Bible is based on the hebrew calender of 30 day to a month. That makes both the 42 months and the 3 1/2 years the same it does not change from 1260 for the witnesses and then 1290 for the antichrist. You can see it better if you take some paper and draw a line a cross the top for the 1335 days.
In the bible the LORD said he does nothing without telling his prophets first ( Amos 3:7). The next line would be the 2 witnesses at the start of the 1335 days for the 3 1/2 years or 1260 days.

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. so Daniel 11:31 Shows the anti Christ is already in power and doing war before his 3 1/2 years start (1260 days). So 3/ 1/2 years is 1260 days we know that from when he enters the temple there is 1290 days left. So that means there is 30 days on the end for the exodus.
Draw a line and leave the 30 days on the end for the exodus and you can see that that there is an over lap of time from when the 2 witnesses are raptured up to heaven(45 days). Like moses 40 days with GOD on the Mountain.

God's people are going through the tribulation and this is how. Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried.

5th Seal
Rev 6;9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held.
This is a hebrew idiom, This is saints in Israel but martydom will reach all parts of the world.

The anti christ does not build his own temple. 2thess 2:4 He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God this is the start of the 1260 days for antichrist.

For I, the LORD, do not change . . . Mal. 3:6 so that means if 3 1/2 years is 1260days in one place in his word it is the same in all his word.

Rev 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of fire. So they are put in the lake of fire on day 1305. When the LORD comes back with his saints.This is Zachariah 14:5 you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with him.

We also know there are only 2 ressurections. The 2 witnesses are ressureected so if God's people do not go with them then there will be 3 ressuretions and that is not in line with the word.

1 thess 4:16-1716 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. There is a rapture or a being caught up. Everything the LORD does as a purpose we have to take all that is said about it.


Rev 19:7-8 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his bride hath made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

In the Jewish wedding the bridegroom comes as a theif in the night to his brides house and calls for her and waits outside for her to come. Then she is taken to his house.

I do not know how many christians will be alive at Christ's coming I do belive it will be a small number. The 144,000 Sealed ones of God could be all there is because the persecution is so great. This only list the natural line of Israel. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles and he seems to say there will be some of them left. 1Thess 4:17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. There is a rapture or a being caught up. Everything the LORD does as a purpose we have to take all that is said about it.

In Revelation 11 we are also told about 7,000 people that should take our mind back to Elijah and the other 7000 who did not bend the knee to baal.
One of the 2 witnesses will come in the Spirit of Elijah. Elijah was raptured in 2 Kings 2.

1 kings 19:18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel--all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and all whose mouths have not kissed him.

Romans 11:3 -5
3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me, too.”[a]
4 And do you remember God’s reply? He said, “No, I have 7,000 others who have never bowed down to Baal!”[b]5 It is the same today, for a few of the people of Israel[c] have remained faithful because of God’s grace—his undeserved kindness in choosing them.

Not even God's people will know how many of them are left. They most likely will feel like Elijah who felt he was all alone.

Rev11:11-14
11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

So there is a ressurection here and we know there are only 2 ressurections.

A tenth is the Tithing or the LORD's portion.

7000 thousand takes you to the faith to the LORD did not bend the knee.. Because all the numbers are zeros we look at the number 7 and that is the number of completion. God has taken his faithful portion.

After this there is still one more woe for the people left on the earth.
 
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
12
0
#18
There will be a resurrection of the saints,where the saints will go to be with Jesus,where they will have their works judged,and receive their glorified body,and then come back with Jesus who will fight the world,and put down the kingdom of man and rule over one sixth of the world that He fought against for 1000 years.

Zechariah 14

1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.


God is going to allow the nations of the world to come together and attack Israel,then God will fight the world and put them down,and save Israel,which is the battle of armageddon.



4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.



God will come with His saints when He fights the world,so God would of had to resurrect them first for the saints to be with God when He comes to fight the world.


6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.



Jesus will then rule the world and the world will recognize no other God but Jesus.All false gods will not be recognized.
Jewish fables.

Hollywood movie script.

Jesus aint coming back down to this old earth. Not in Zech 14 or anywhere else.