about the rich man

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:
and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The Father's hands has his spirit

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already,
they brake not his legs:

It says,

James 2:26... the body without the spirit is dead

And Jospeh of Arimathaea begged Pilate for the body of Jesus, and placed his body in a new tomb it speaks of his soul here

Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell;
neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 

[HisHolly]

Ab is called father by many. If it were in fact Judah why not talk like family? He said I have 5 brothers like Ab wouldn't have known. And again why leave out the others?

confused

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

You can google the Lazarus and rich man is Judah online that has been up for many years, you would probably get better info than the bite size stuff you will get on a forum, the arguments for and against

 

[WebersHome]

-

And, he was still on Earth, telling this parable, when supposedly Abraham
was already in Heaven. And didn't Jesus say no one had been to Heaven
when He walked around here preaching and teaching? How did Abraham
and Lazarus get there?

Abraham and Lazarus weren't in heaven.

Christ informed Mary Magdalene on the day of his resurrection that he had
not yet ascended to his Father (John 20:17) and that's because when Christ
expired on the cross, he went to a place that he labeled paradise (Luke
23:43). The particular paradise to which Christ went wasn't up, no, it was
down; viz: it was underground.

● Matt 12:40 . . Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of
the sea monster, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.

The sensible conclusion to draw from the available data is that Lazarus and
Abraham were in the self-same underground paradise to which Christ went
during the three days and nights between his death and resurrection.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

[pottersclay]

The old testament saints that died were seen walking through the streets of Jerusalem after the sudden earthquake on the day of the crucifixion. Jesus did not preach to the captives but freed the captives. The price was paid in full. Abrahams bosom was a holding place for old testament saints. Now this is a mystery to some but remember the Vail was ripped wide open after the death of our Lord in the temple. Jesus also said no man comes to the father but by me this also ment ot saints. Jesus the one and only redeemer. Imo Enoch, Elijah, and possibly Moses has not seen God the father yet. If they are to play a role in the end time prophecies and come back in the flesh then I would say no for scriptue tells us no man has seen God and lived. Remember Jesus was a ransom paying a debt he did not owe for us who owed a debt we could not pay. Hope this helps.....blessings

 

[God4me]

The event in question was Jesus telling a story.
Perhaps these two individuals did exist in history but there is absolutely no evidence for this.
What is clear is that what is related shares a clear pattern to the rest of the parables that Jesus shared.

We do have to be careful not to read into the word of God things that are not there (eisegesis).
Instead our goal should be exegesis - to get out the word of God that which is actually there, and no more.

Even if Lk 16: 19--26, was a parable, A "Parable", is a discourse that gives a Spiritual truth.
So It's a fact that the rich man is in Hell, [Sheol/ Hades]. and Lazarus was in Abraham's Bosom.

 

[God4me]

Guys, guys, guys, it is a parable about Israel and the Gentiles being surprised at how much different each of their fates turned out than they expected. There is no "Abraham's Bosom". This is the only place in the entire Bible it is even mentioned, and no one is ever said to be "carried" anywhere... we all go to the grave.

There are problems with your theory.
[1]A Parable is a discourse that gives a Spiritual truth, So Jesus wasn't deceiving us, and it wasn't about Israel and the
Gentiles, It was about two people in two different places.

[2]The Hebrew word for Hell, Is, "Sheol", and the Hebrew word for the grave, is, " Qeber". Two different Hebrew words, Two different places.
And the Greek word for Hell. Is "Hades", and the Greek word for the grave, is, "Mnemeion", Two different Greek words, Two different places.

Mankind is Spirit, Greek, "Pneuma", Soul, "Psuche" and body, "Soma", 1 Thess 5: 23.
The body of Jesus was in a tomb, "Mnemeion", Matt 27: 57--60, and His Spirit & soul was in Hell, Acts 2: 27: & v 31.

So, at death, only the body dies, The Spirit/soul live on, In the place that we chose in this life, Heaven or hell.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Here is one also

Romans 8:16 The Spirit (Pnuema) itself beareth witness with our spirit (Pnuema), that we are the children of God:

 

[God4me]

I said nothing, at all, about anyone wanting to put people in hell/hades. (Both terms, BTW, are just "the grave" in the Bible... and everyone who dies goes there.)

I asked why some people here want to place people who have simply died, AND HAVE NOT BEEN JUDGED OF ANYTHING YET, (as your own quote says) in a place of torment.

[1]Hell is wrongly rendered, "The grave", as the OT word for Hell, is Sheol, and the OT word for the grave is, Qeber.
The NT word for hell. is Hades, and the NT word for the grave, is, Mnemeion, So hell and the grave are two different places.

[2]God knows who receives Jesus and who reject Him Those who receive Jesus as Lord and saviour, go to heave, and those who reject Jesus, goes to hell.

 

[Ahwatukee]

There are problems with your theory.
[1]A Parable is a discourse that gives a Spiritual truth, So Jesus wasn't deceiving us, and it wasn't about Israel and the
Gentiles, It was about two people in two different places.

[2]The Hebrew word for Hell, Is, "Sheol", and the Hebrew word for the grave, is, " Qeber". Two different Hebrew words, Two different places.
And the Greek word for Hell. Is "Hades", and the Greek word for the grave, is, "Mnemeion", Two different Greek words, Two different places.

Mankind is Spirit, Greek, "Pneuma", Soul, "Psuche" and body, "Soma", 1 Thess 5: 23.
The body of Jesus was in a tomb, "Mnemeion", Matt 27: 57--60, and His Spirit & soul was in Hell, Acts 2: 27: & v 31.

So, at death, only the body dies, The Spirit/soul live on, In the place that we chose in this life, Heaven or hell.

You are right on target God4me. Parables normally contain symbolism representing the literal. There is no symbolism within the event of the rich man and Lazarus, but the mention of literal people Abraham, Lazarus, the rich man, Moses, the prophets, as well as the literal location of Hades/Sheol. IMHO neither Sheol nor Hades should ever be used to refer to the grave or tomb. The use of Qeber/Mnemeion vs. Sheol/Hades makes a distinction between the grave/tomb and the place of the departed spirits after death.

 

[God4me]

You are right on target God4me. Parables normally contain symbolism representing the literal. There is no symbolism within the event of the rich man and Lazarus, but the mention of literal people Abraham, Lazarus, the rich man, Moses, the prophets, as well as the literal location of Hades/Sheol. IMHO neither Sheol nor Hades should ever be used to refer to the grave or tomb. The use of Qeber/Mnemeion vs. Sheol/Hades makes a distinction between the grave/tomb and the place of the departed spirits after death.

You are right.
And Bible Scholars say when Jesus mentions a "Certain" man, He was referring to a real man having a real experience.

 

[fredoheaven]

Who here can find the Rich Man's sins? Name just one. For that matter, how were he and Lazarus different that Lazarus would be chosen to go to Heaven, and not the rich Man?

Save yourself the trouble. You cannot find a thing at all.

No need to trouble yourself of the rich man's sins. What the bible says is "for all have sinned" that matters...not really Lazarus has been chosen to Heaven but goes to Paradise.

 

[Willie-T]

You are right.
And Bible Scholars say when Jesus mentions a "Certain" man, He was referring to a real man having a real experience.

You guys have got to quit embarrassing yourselves. This begins the very same chapter we are discussing. (it's just a different PARABLE)

Luke 16King James Version (KJV)

16 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.

3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.

4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.

 

[Willie-T]

I guess next someone is going to say that this guy was supposedly in Hell because he was rich... because Jesus said a rich person would have a hard time getting into Heaven.

 

[Utah]

The event in question was Jesus telling a story.
Perhaps these two individuals did exist in history but there is absolutely no evidence for this.

The evidence is Jesus' words. Jesus doesn't say, the Kingdom of Heaven is like . . .

Jesus says, there was a man named Lazarus . . . factual . . . IMO.

 

[Utah]

I would be curious to why some think it is not a parable. What would the lesson teach? I would suggest the account in Luke is a parable. Parables hide the spiritual meaning from one while the Spirit of Christ that dwells in the other reveals the true.

What's more convincing, a parable or factual truth?

 

[Utah]

I can answer most anything, if you are able to formulate relative questions.

What are tonight's winning Lotto numbers?

 

[Willie-T]

What's more convincing, a parable or factual truth?

That's probable the worldly reasoning that works so hard to say this is a factual story. I'm surprised all the rest of Jesus' parables aren't also claimed to be true stories.

 

[Utah]

No. For a long time on here, you have attempted to hide behind a flurry of disconnected verbosity.

Great! Now I have to go look up the meaning of disconnected verbosity.

Actually, that sounds like a cool username.

 

[Utah]

That's probable the worldly reasoning that works so hard to say this is a factual story. I'm surprised all the rest of Jesus' parables aren't also claimed to be true stories.

Willie, I've read your first sentence five times and can't make it out. Sorry bro.