After His Kind part 2

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Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#1
Written by Ray Ogle part 2

In Genesis 2:9, we see God plant
two special trees in the garden of
Eden and both trees bear fruit. It
is from our horticulture lesson that
we understand that the fruit bears
the seed from which the “nature”
of the tree grows. Here was Adam’s
test. Adam and Eve were given all
that they needed to survive as cre-
ated beings. God, in all His fairness
and wisdom, made man a free mor-
al agent with the ability to choose
as he wishes. What this test was to
reveal is what “kind” of “seed-spir-
it” man would be. Remember that
in Gen. 2:7 we see man has a body
and a living soul but no mention of
“spirit” yet. Man is supposed to be a
trinity in God’s image and likeness
(1 Thess. 5:23).

The tree of “life” and the tree of
“knowledge of good and evil” are
the two special trees God planted
and these trees are the very trees
yielding fruit that will determine
how mankind is complete. You
could actually call these trees the
“Tree of Life” and the “Tree of
Death.” And as we know from Gen.
3:6, Adam and Eve did eat from
the “tree of death” and Adam took
within himself (spiritually) the
seed of the fruit that was picked by
Eve from the tree of knowledge of
good and evil. As with every seed
so far, the seed will produce “after
his kind.” We see that instantly in
Gen. 3:7 their eyes were opened
and they knew they were naked. At
this point the seed has sprung life
and is beginning to grow in them
to become a tree yielding fruit and
seed “after his kind.” The result of
Adam’s choice gave birth to death
within spiritually, and the immedi-
ate result in their conscious think-
ing and feeling was guilt, shame,
and separation. These are the first
fruits of the death being manifest-
ed from the seed-spirit that was
birthed in Adam.

What is so very interesting is that
there is no further recorded history
of Adam‘s particular sin. There is
nothing in the bible about the fruits
of corruption, in detail, concern-
ing Adam. Only his disobedience
is paramount in scripture. Rather,
what God does have us to focus on
is the fruit yielding “after his kind”
according to the first spiritual seed.
The judgment that came after Ad-
am’s choice is seen in Gen. 3:14-24
where the woman must now tra-
vail in childbirth and man must till
(toil) the earth for food. God cursed
the ground (Gen. 3:17). Another
important point to think about is
that God first “formed” and made
man of uncursed earth. We will dis-
cuss uncursed earth later.

We now come to the place where
we begin to see roots and how they
form and grow spiritually. Gen. 4:1-
7 gives us the information of the
first two earthly sons born to Adam
and Eve. These two, Cain and Abel,
are the result of Adam’s seed sown,
“after his kind,” in the flesh, Cain
being the first born. The result of
Adam’s choice to eat of the “Tree of
Death” is also yielded in these same
verses.

At the “time of offering,” Gen. 4:3,
Cain offered up to the Lord of the
works of his hands, (probably fruit
and vegetables), and his offering
was not pleasing to the Lord. Abel,
on the other hand, offered of his
flocks of the firstlings (probably a
lamb), and his offering was pleas-
ing to the Lord. God offered Cain
an opportunity to correct the mat-
ter and if not, sin would lie at the
door and come into the picture and
yield fruit. Cain made the same
choice as his father and he became
jealous and felt separated because
of his choice. He then rose up
against Abel and the first murder
of the bible takes place and Cain
kills Abel, Gen. 4:7-9. From look-
ing at Adam’s choice to eat of the
forbidden fruit we see that this first
spiritual seed passed on to Cain has
now revived (Rom. 7:9), begun to
grow, take root, and yield fruit. The
spiritual offspring and fruit of this
choice of Adam was a murderer.
(See, John 8:44).

A very good scripture for un-
derstanding what had happened is
Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by
one man (Adam) sin entered into
the world, and death by sin; and
so death passed upon all men, for
that all have sinned.” As we already
know, God created and planted the
first seeds of the physical world we
know. But since believers know
God as Father, we also know a Fa-
ther must sow seed of His loins
(kind). Since God is a Spirit then
there must be a spiritual birthing
somewhere in order for there to
be a spiritual family of sons and
daughters. Genesis has been called
the “Book of beginnings,” but I like
to call it the “Book of seeds.”
'Continued'
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
2,697
380
83
#2
Adam knew Good and evil and became like God:

Gen 3:22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

But i have issues with this kind of literal thinking about Eden:

We are told God created vegetation on the 3rd day (Gen 1:11) and it was good, but in Gen 2:5, we are told no shrub had grown yet. We are also told God made a garden in the east which had every kind of tree. If nothing existed initially, and God made the garden with every kind of tree, can we say the garden was created by God?

Was the garden a creation after the first 7 days?
 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#3
Adam knew Good and evil and became like God:

Gen 3:22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

But i have issues with this kind of literal thinking about Eden:

We are told God created vegetation on the 3rd day (Gen 1:11) and it was good, but in Gen 2:5, we are told no shrub had grown yet. We are also told God made a garden in the east which had every kind of tree. If nothing existed initially, and God made the garden with every kind of tree, can we say the garden was created by God?

Was the garden a creation after the first 7 days?
Sure and I would agree to a point, but must always be taken literal where ever possible, that is most of scripture. I'm not a fan of spiritualizing everything as some would.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
2,697
380
83
#4
Sure and I would agree to a point, but must always be taken literal where ever possible, that is most of scripture. I'm not a fan of spiritualizing everything as some would.
I don't think you understand. According to Gen 1, plants were created on the 3rd day:

Gen 1:11Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

On the 3rd, every kind of plant was present on earth- agreed?

Gen 2:
5Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth a and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6but streams b came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7Then the Lord God formed a man c from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.9The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

If this is to be taken literally then we have a problem. In Gen 1, we have plants already all over earth but in Gen 2, there's no plants yet and man is put in a garden prepared by God in the east.
 

Bingo

Active member
Feb 9, 2019
345
186
43
#5
"Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit,
Overt, verbal, and conscious repudiation of the fact that God is at work
in Jesus Christ accomplishing his designs throught the power of the Holy Spirit,
Has this not perpexed both scholars ad ordinary Christians for centuries."

'Praise God'
 

Attachments

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#6
I don't think you understand. According to Gen 1, plants were created on the 3rd day:

Gen 1:11Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

On the 3rd, every kind of plant was present on earth- agreed?

Gen 2:
5Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth a and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6but streams b came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7Then the Lord God formed a man c from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

8Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.9The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

If this is to be taken literally then we have a problem. In Gen 1, we have plants already all over earth but in Gen 2, there's no plants yet and man is put in a garden prepared by God in the east.
I do understand, interprete as you will but I made a statement that I stand by
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
7,531
1,697
113
#8
Adam knew Good and evil and became like God:
That should be "became like the devil".

Had he become like God, God would have allowed him to remain in Eden. But just as Satan was cast out of Heaven, Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden.

The knowledge of good and evil was the knowledge of knowing the difference between obedience and disobedience. Adam an Eve became guilty, ashamed, and fearful after obtaining that so-called "knowledge".
 

TM19782017

Active member
Dec 15, 2018
142
95
28
#10
Written by Ray Ogle part 2

In Genesis 2:9, we see God plant
two special trees in the garden of
Eden and both trees bear fruit. It
is from our horticulture lesson that
we understand that the fruit bears
the seed from which the “nature”
of the tree grows. Here was Adam’s
test. Adam and Eve were given all
that they needed to survive as cre-
ated beings. God, in all His fairness
and wisdom, made man a free mor-
al agent with the ability to choose
as he wishes. What this test was to
reveal is what “kind” of “seed-spir-
it” man would be. Remember that
in Gen. 2:7 we see man has a body
and a living soul but no mention of
“spirit” yet. Man is supposed to be a
trinity in God’s image and likeness
(1 Thess. 5:23).

The tree of “life” and the tree of
“knowledge of good and evil” are
the two special trees God planted
and these trees are the very trees
yielding fruit that will determine
how mankind is complete. You
could actually call these trees the
“Tree of Life” and the “Tree of
Death.” And as we know from Gen.
3:6, Adam and Eve did eat from
the “tree of death” and Adam took
within himself (spiritually) the
seed of the fruit that was picked by
Eve from the tree of knowledge of
good and evil. As with every seed
so far, the seed will produce “after
his kind.” We see that instantly in
Gen. 3:7 their eyes were opened
and they knew they were naked. At
this point the seed has sprung life
and is beginning to grow in them
to become a tree yielding fruit and
seed “after his kind.” The result of
Adam’s choice gave birth to death
within spiritually, and the immedi-
ate result in their conscious think-
ing and feeling was guilt, shame,
and separation. These are the first
fruits of the death being manifest-
ed from the seed-spirit that was
birthed in Adam.

What is so very interesting is that
there is no further recorded history
of Adam‘s particular sin. There is
nothing in the bible about the fruits
of corruption, in detail, concern-
ing Adam. Only his disobedience
is paramount in scripture. Rather,
what God does have us to focus on
is the fruit yielding “after his kind”
according to the first spiritual seed.
The judgment that came after Ad-
am’s choice is seen in Gen. 3:14-24
where the woman must now tra-
vail in childbirth and man must till
(toil) the earth for food. God cursed
the ground (Gen. 3:17). Another
important point to think about is
that God first “formed” and made
man of uncursed earth. We will dis-
cuss uncursed earth later.

We now come to the place where
we begin to see roots and how they
form and grow spiritually. Gen. 4:1-
7 gives us the information of the
first two earthly sons born to Adam
and Eve. These two, Cain and Abel,
are the result of Adam’s seed sown,
“after his kind,” in the flesh, Cain
being the first born. The result of
Adam’s choice to eat of the “Tree of
Death” is also yielded in these same
verses.

At the “time of offering,” Gen. 4:3,
Cain offered up to the Lord of the
works of his hands, (probably fruit
and vegetables), and his offering
was not pleasing to the Lord. Abel,
on the other hand, offered of his
flocks of the firstlings (probably a
lamb), and his offering was pleas-
ing to the Lord. God offered Cain
an opportunity to correct the mat-
ter and if not, sin would lie at the
door and come into the picture and
yield fruit. Cain made the same
choice as his father and he became
jealous and felt separated because
of his choice. He then rose up
against Abel and the first murder
of the bible takes place and Cain
kills Abel, Gen. 4:7-9. From look-
ing at Adam’s choice to eat of the
forbidden fruit we see that this first
spiritual seed passed on to Cain has
now revived (Rom. 7:9), begun to
grow, take root, and yield fruit. The
spiritual offspring and fruit of this
choice of Adam was a murderer.
(See, John 8:44).

A very good scripture for un-
derstanding what had happened is
Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by
one man (Adam) sin entered into
the world, and death by sin; and
so death passed upon all men, for
that all have sinned.” As we already
know, God created and planted the
first seeds of the physical world we
know. But since believers know
God as Father, we also know a Fa-
ther must sow seed of His loins
(kind). Since God is a Spirit then
there must be a spiritual birthing
somewhere in order for there to
be a spiritual family of sons and
daughters. Genesis has been called
the “Book of beginnings,” but I like
to call it the “Book of seeds.”
'Continued'

As I can see, you study Genesis a lot just like I do....

Some points and things that stick out to me are:


#1 After they ate, try and hear God asking the woman in a calm voice instead of like, "WHAT IS THIS THAT YOU HAVE DONE?"
#2 After they explain their reason for doing so, God speaks to the serpent and says, "Because YOU have done this", implying, the serpent was responsible....The judgement was the serpent being cursed ABOVE all livestock and wild animals....Is being above those things and cursed really a bad thing? Cursed below seemed to be the judgement on the woman. Her husband would rule over her.
#3 When addressing the man and the women after they ate, he spoke to the serpent, the woman and, Adam.....Not the man.
Where the man got the name Adam is ambiguous. Where the woman got the name Eve is clear.
#4 What is the first thing that the man actually KNEW? That he was naked. Internal shame defined the meaning and knowledge of the word naked.
#5 Who or what was the serpent? Where did that word even come from? I can only assume that since the man named every beast of the field, that word came from him.
 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#12
As I can see, you study Genesis a lot just like I do....

Some points and things that stick out to me are:


#1 After they ate, try and hear God asking the woman in a calm voice instead of like, "WHAT IS THIS THAT YOU HAVE DONE?"
#2 After they explain their reason for doing so, God speaks to the serpent and says, "Because YOU have done this", implying, the serpent was responsible....The judgement was the serpent being cursed ABOVE all livestock and wild animals....Is being above those things and cursed really a bad thing? Cursed below seemed to be the judgement on the woman. Her husband would rule over her.
#3 When addressing the man and the women after they ate, he spoke to the serpent, the woman and, Adam.....Not the man.
Where the man got the name Adam is ambiguous. Where the woman got the name Eve is clear.
#4 What is the first thing that the man actually KNEW? That he was naked. Internal shame defined the meaning and knowledge of the word naked.
#5 Who or what was the serpent? Where did that word even come from? I can only assume that since the man named every beast of the field, that word came from him.
Thank you, to me Genesis has a lot to offer, there has been so much speculation on the book people have no clue what to think. You come along talking about a simple seed, which the bible is full of, and you think you would have taken the golden calf away, amazing. Wow more concern is placed on format than on how thread reads, blows me away.
I have done all the formatting, punctuating, and so on. What a thread has to say either is praised or mocked its all the same, not wasting time on the frivolous.
 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#13
That should be "became like the devil".

Had he become like God, God would have allowed him to remain in Eden. But just as Satan was cast out of Heaven, Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden.

The knowledge of good and evil was the knowledge of knowing the difference between obedience and disobedience. Adam an Eve became guilty, ashamed, and fearful after obtaining that so-called "knowledge".
Are you saying the devil is: guilty, ashamed, and fearful??
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
1,731
405
83
#14
After many years of studying the creation story, praying and fasting, I believe the Lord has taught me that the Book is allegorical mingled with facts. I have come to believe it is not exactly sin that separates us from God it is guilt. Even Paul has stated that if one goes against their conscience to them it is sin. The tree of knowledge of good and evil was not a real tree. A carnal lesson for carnal minds. Guilt is a product (produce, or fruit) of knowing right from wrong. Because guilt is what separates, forgiveness is what reunites. The blood sacrifices were a physical way to absolve sin. In actuality it was the belief that their sins were lifted that absolved guilt. This freed the conscience to again be able to hear God in prayer. Through the ultimate sacrifice of His Son, it is the faith that this is enough for absolution. This is also why we are instructed to forgive others, and why we leave our offering on the alter until we have made amends with our brother. It is a clear conscience that connects us to the Almighty so we may hear His voice and do His will.
 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#15
After many years of studying the creation story, praying and fasting, I believe the Lord has taught me that the Book is allegorical mingled with facts. I have come to believe it is not exactly sin that separates us from God it is guilt. Even Paul has stated that if one goes against their conscience to them it is sin. The tree of knowledge of good and evil was not a real tree. A carnal lesson for carnal minds. Guilt is a product (produce, or fruit) of knowing right from wrong. Because guilt is what separates, forgiveness is what reunites. The blood sacrifices were a physical way to absolve sin. In actuality it was the belief that their sins were lifted that absolved guilt. This freed the conscience to again be able to hear God in prayer. Through the ultimate sacrifice of His Son, it is the faith that this is enough for absolution. This is also why we are instructed to forgive others, and why we leave our offering on the alter until we have made amends with our brother. It is a clear conscience that connects us to the Almighty so we may hear His voice and do His will.
Your probably right but I would just read it like it is written. Nothing is hidden, we don't need to go off on allegorical treks through scripture to try an uncase the hidden. Major points are made that are very clear through out scripture such as the "seed."
Granted we need the HolySpirit to teach and reveal the things of God, but there is enough speculation in religion today
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
7,531
1,697
113
#16
Are you saying the devil is: guilty, ashamed, and fearful??
No, I am saying that instead of becoming like gods, they became like guilty criminals, while their disobedience meant that they had become like the devil.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
2,697
380
83
#18
Your probably right but I would just read it like it is written. Nothing is hidden, we don't need to go off on allegorical treks through scripture to try an uncase the hidden. Major points are made that are very clear through out scripture such as the "seed."
Granted we need the HolySpirit to teach and reveal the things of God, but there is enough speculation in religion today
If you believe everything literally, you don't need any further understanding. If you believe there was literal tree at the center of the garden, why do you need the Holy spirit to give you understanding that there was a tree at the center of the garden, is it not already written?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
2,697
380
83
#19
That should be "became like the devil".

Had he become like God, God would have allowed him to remain in Eden. But just as Satan was cast out of Heaven, Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden.

The knowledge of good and evil was the knowledge of knowing the difference between obedience and disobedience. Adam an Eve became guilty, ashamed, and fearful after obtaining that so-called "knowledge".
I think you need to write your own bible; it is God who says man became like God after knowing good and evil.
Does God know good and evil?
 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#20
Says anyone who knows how to copy and paste correctly, so that the text is displayed like other posts. Not a narrow column.
Feel free to start your own thread and knock yourself out