Against Calvinism: God (Jesus) did not know...

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Dec 28, 2016
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#41
God may have elected us, but he did not cause us to into Salvation.
Did God persuade those dried up bones in Ezekiel 37 to come to life, or did He raise them up all by Himself?

Did the Christ persuade Lazarus to come out of his tomb or did He call him out by His effectual calling?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#42
It is partly that but more importantly Reformed Theology teaches that God in His sovereignty has DECREED that some men will go to Heaven and others will go to Hell, and NOT because He foreknew who would obey the Gospel and who would not.

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
(Romans 9:19-22)

what if He did decree who He will have mercy on and who He will not?
you are the one to answer back to Him, and tell Him He is unjust?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#43
Did God persuade those dried up bones in Ezekiel 37 to come to life, or did He raise them up all by Himself?

Did the Christ persuade Lazarus to come out of his tomb or did He call him out by His effectual calling?
perhaps only the dead, dry bones that chose to receive life rose up, but Ezekiel didn't think it necessary to add that detail, assuming it would be obvious to the thoughtful reader :)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#44
I can see two possibilities. Jesus had no God-power at this point in time or Jesus did have God-power, but did not use his God-power at this time. Either way we can definitely say that Jesus did not use God-power to know the "day or the hour."


His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems,
and He has a name written that no one knows but Himself.

(Revelation 19:12)

does God know this name or not?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#45
perhaps only the dead, dry bones that chose to receive life rose up, but Ezekiel didn't think it necessary to add that detail, assuming it would be obvious to the thoughtful reader :)
In their view, it seems like the only thing God does is call them. However, in reality, He not only calls them, but seeks them at the same time. "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”[Luke 19:10]
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#46
God may have elected us, but he did not cause us to into Salvation.
He did it all. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 refutes how you wish the Gospel and God to be. Guess what? It won't work. Either accept the Biblical account, or keep writing your own narrative.

The point is I can literally man handle God...
No, but you can certainly mangle his Word and blaspheme.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#47
First of all, you sound arrogant.
Says the one who can man-handle God. What a puny little god you have in your mind.

Maybe you got a point in the over-power thing. If Jesus didn't put up a "fight" with his full God-power, then its not an overpowering... it's him allowing himself for those things to happen.
So you've finally learned something? Have you read your Bible through? Or not? Or do you ever read it? What helps have yo studied? What works do you read? Are you one of those who only needs yourself and a bible showing why you're in such error?

First of all, I think there's intuitive problems with God determining people to God to heaven and hell. There's moral tensions...
Only in your arrogant Romans 9:20 mind.

and I believe blind faith among Calvinists to ignore that moral intention. That's unGodly... not necessarily faithful. I believe this state is described best in the following:

1 Timothy 4:2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.
Yes, more misapplied Scripture meant only to malign others.

Our consciousnesses can possibly be seared. I've met Calvinists that struggle with their own conscious... understanding what a worthless and evil God Calvinism seems to make God... struggling with their conscious to accept what they really think is a good interpretation.
You're calling God evil here simply by way of you're not liking the God of Scripture. Then you throw in a false story about some alleged Calvinist's somewhere.

What you are really doing is saying if the God of Reformed theology is actually the God of Scripture (and he most definitely is) that he is "a worthless and evil God."

Therefore we've gotten to the bottom line of how you feel about the God of Scripture. I just wanted to set the record straight and properly apply your false accusation to yourself, not to those you wished to apply it to.

We have a God Romans 2:14-15 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, 15 since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them

God gave everyone the law in our hearts and a conscious (perhaps these two are the same). Either way, if there's moral tension, it needs to be resolved, not dismissed naively.
So, God putting the Law in person's hearts does what exactly? Don't romanticize the text. It isn't speaking as if they are then good, or saved, or love God. In fact the conclusion is the exact opposite.

But you're in way over your head. You haven't read your Bible lately, right? Or through, ever, correct? Is this why you just ad lib things, toss in a verse pretending to make a point, and write your own narrative as if all truth of Scripture were dependent on your weak thought processes?

I personally believe God does not need humans to be glorified... like Calvinists do.
Straw man. You mean man glorified, like you man-handling God?

You're theology ain't. It's a train wreck of philosophy and guff. Calvinism in no way glorifies man, anti-Cals do which you've proven throughout this thread. You have it completely backwards.

You need in a bad way to get some good godly men who believe in the God of Scripture to help you and to lead you away from your error and into truth. There is much gall and bitterness in your words and depiction of God and even toward his servants you show the same disdain.

I say this in deep concern for your soul. Get teachers and pastors to pray for you and help you. Pray and ask God for mercy. This all should be done in repentance, humility, much teaching for you to grasp truth, and in much prayer. You're on an unsustainable path. I feel sorry for you, perhaps God will deliver you! Your thoughts upon the God of Scripture are terrifying and remarkable to behold. Not one ounce of fear! :(
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#48
In their view, it seems like the only thing God does is call them. However, in reality, He not only calls them, but seeks them at the same time. "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”[Luke 19:10]
Is not the whole world lost?
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#49
God may have elected us, but he did not cause us to into Salvation. He persuaded us into salvation. That's why there is conversations between God and man in the bible

There's a fundamental point. The point is I can literally man handle God... That's possible. That's scriptural true. This fundamental truth shows that if I can resist God on this level and God allows it. Then like I asked, what else does God NOT use his power for? That question was meant to open people up that God can allow himself to be resisted in regards to salvation.
This may be the scariest post you've ever written.

You can "literally man handle God?" And you think Calvinists are arrogant?

And, no. I did get your original point. This was never about God. It was about you're against Calvinism.

I think this post is against Calvinism in that Calvinism has an emphasis on God's power such as knowing the future.
I really don't have anything against people who aren't into TULIP. I don't think someone who thinks he can "literally man handle God" is even remotely Christian, nor has any concept of who God is!

God made man from dust, and yet you think you are so powerful you can manhandle God? I don't think the Sanhedrin was that arrogant.

On the good news side, at least now that people get you're promoting manhandling God, not too many people will listen to your teachings anymore.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#50
Calmador says - Calvinism refuted in several verses:

Psalm 115:3
... he (God) does whatever pleases him.
Sounds like good calvinism to me,

Ezekiel 33:11 ... I (God) take no pleasure in the death of the wicked,...

The root word for pleasure in both verses is chaphets. God does not determine the death of the wicked.
--
Then who does? lol But He takes no pleasure in it,

Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
this says nothing about Calvinism. You refutation isn't very strong lol
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#52
This shows you know nothing about who God is nor who man is.
Calmador explained it as putting Christ on the cross. Jesus allowed Himself to be manhandled, because of Who He is, and because of who man is.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#53
No one was placed in Christ before the foundation of the world...
Oh but the elect were; Ephesian 1:4.

But you're not elect, by your own admission, yet only the elect are saved. Very interesting and unbiblical position you hold to. The other interesting thing, as you know, is you claim to be spoken of in Ephesians 2:3, but deny you're in Ephesians 1:4. You jump context and dismiss Bible doctrine when you don't like it.

Maybe you think you can jump the gate into the fold? John 10:1? Or something?

Oh, and as a reminder? Those spoken of in Ephesians 2:3 are only those spoken of on Ephesians 1:4. No one got to skip one part of God's plan and enter in where they desire.

May I ask how long you've been writing your own gospel narrative?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#54
Calmador explained it as putting Christ on the cross. Jesus allowed Himself to be manhandled, because of Who He is, and because of who man is.
And you believed his spin. Not surprising.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#55
Is not the whole world lost?
===================================================

NO, John 146, else none of us would have any HOPE': but yes, this present world is lost,
but definitely not the ones whom our Father has called...
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#56
"The HS acts as a human spirit." Eternally-Gratefull
"The point is I can literally man handle God." Calmador
"No one was placed in Christ before the foundation of the world..."John146

The late Dr. RC Sproul said it best when he said...

 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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#57
My thought? My thought is why do you do this? It doesn't seem to glorify God. More like using him as your hammer to smoosh those who you don't like.

God is powerful, and he's not your weapon. So your use of time is ineffective, useless, and questionable.

Since you asked for my thoughts.
Amen and thank you Depleted
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#58
My thought? My thought is why do you do this? It doesn't seem to glorify God. More like using him as your hammer to smoosh those who you don't like.

God is powerful, and he's not your weapon. So your use of time is ineffective, useless, and questionable.

Since you asked for my thoughts.