Agony in the garden

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pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#1
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#1
Do you ever wonder at what Jesus went through when He was praying in the garden before He was betrayed and took the cross.
I have been lately, mostly because of a few things that are spoken to in this scripture.
First, that He went to the garden to pray.
I have found comfort that Jesus, who is the son of God, always prayed.
Second, that Jesus felt great agony and sorrow.
Agony over what was to come.
I have wondered about this sorrow, was it for the suffering He would go through?
Or was it the sorrow of the gift being given, that many would refuse.
I often consider this amazing and loving gift given, this gift that brings so much to us, and Jesus knowing the value and love of this gift, and yet seeing there will still be those that refuse it.
Third and the most telling for me, was that Jesus asked if this cup could pass, yet said, not my will but yours Father.
I have found it interesting that Jesus spoke to setting His will aside for God's will, as this speaks to the truth about man's will vs God's will.
Interesting that will is so spoken to in this scripture.
Although one might say we who are called, know that we cannot live by our will, but must set aside our will for God's will.

What matters the most though, is that Jesus accepted the task He was called to do.
Even though left alone by the apostles, in agony over what was to come.
God's love was fullfilled for us in Jesus, and all given to us by His sacrifice.

Please share your thoughts on the agony in the garden.

God bless :)
pickles
 
RickyZ

RickyZ

Senior Member
#2
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#2
Jesus went to the garden
And fell down on His knees

Jesus prayed in the garden
Of Gethsemane

Not My will but Yours, be done
Father not My will but Yours, be done

Jesus went to the mountain
To bleed for you and me
(Hmm-mmm)

Jesus died on the mountain
Called Calvary
(Calvary)

Why have You fors-aken Me
My God, why have You forsaken Me
Forsaken Me

And Jesus rose on the third day
Triumphant over sin

And Jesus spoke on the third day
To Mary Magdalene
(Oh Mary)

Woman why are y-ou, crying
(Woman why are you, crying)
He said woman why are you, crying
Yeah

Hallelujah, our Savior is alive (halleluj-ah)
Hallelujah, He is alive (halleluj-ah)
Hallelujah, our Savior is alive

Jesus entered the heavens
Christ alone be praised
(H-all-el-uj-ah)

Jesus entered the heavens
Christ alone be praised

I will be with you, always
(I will be with y-ou)
Beloved I will be with you, always

Hallelujah, our Savior is alive (halleluj-ah)
Hallelujah, He is alive (hallelujah)
Hallelujah, He’s coming back for us (halleluj-ah)
Hallelujah, victorious

Lord of heaven and Earth
Lord of all creation
Lord of heaven and Earth

Jesus went to the garden
And fell down on His knees

-City on a Hill

Jesus Went To The Garden by Derri Daugherty;Paul Colman;Dan Haseltine;Sara Gro | Song | Free Music, Listen Now
 
Cobus

Cobus

Banned
#3
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
27
0
#3
Pickles let us go and spend that time with Jesus and SEE what happened there. Let us go through it step by step so that we not get lost on what transpired there. It is VERY important...

Jesus knew He was going to die and what we should not forget was that Jesus asked His three most loyal disciples to jin Him to PRAY and WATCH with him. Jesus started by telling the other disciples to sit there where they were and HE will go and pray YONDER. Then HE TOOK PETER, JAMES AND JOHN with him and only THEN BEGAN TO BE SORROWFUL AND VERY HEAVY..

Now let us look at Jesus and what followed. He went to go and pray the Bible says He began to be sorrowful and very heavy... And Jesus said to them... My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. Jesus was God, we know that, but He was God in the flesh, so the soul part was as human as we are human, and that was the part that had teh emotions, not the FAITH OR CONVICTIONS... MY SOUL He said.. The soul is in the blood, and the blood would soon be shed, UNTO DEATH.... Jesus knew His blood will soon be shed for the sacrifice of
ALL SIN... God said without bloodshed there is NO FORGIVENESS!

So Jesus went a little further than this three as well... and there He started to pray. Now we have to see something you might have missed... In John 17 it says Jesus LIFTED HIS EYES TO HEAVEN AND SAID... AND HERE IN MATTHEW 26 THE BIBLE SAYS HE FELL ON HIS FACE AND PRAYED, SAYING....

I get this idea this was the one and only REQUEST Jesus asked Father... All the other’s he was only saying, not asking or praying. Remember that HE DID SPEAK GOD’S WORDS NOT HIS OWN....Why would God ask HIMSELF for something? So there is something a bit deeper here, and if we understand this we will understand salvation....

Jesus did not want to skip the cross and the blood-shedding, for that He was prepared for even before the earth was made.... But He was hoping and ASKING that this WAITING to be arrested would now pass. That they would now come and take Him.... It is a Godly NATURE to get bad things behind as quick as possible. We do the same EVERY TIME WE ARE SORROWFUL AND VERY HEAVY... we ask.... GOD LET THIS PASS US, PLEASE.... Jesus just called it a cup.

Ricky touched the Truth here. Jesus had to become me and you on the cross.... He had to die in my place and BECOME ME!!!! That is why He had to say.... ELI ELI LAMA SABACHTANI.... My God, My God why have thou forsaken me!.... It was Jesus asking God that, because WE HAVE FORSAKEN GOD WITH OUR SIN.... God had to let Jesus die to buy us free. But this is where people stop with the Truth but not GOD!... He says YOU ARE BOUGHT WITH A HIGH PRICE.. DO NOT BECOME SERVANTS OF MEN!!!!

AH!!!! If we are not to be servants of men then we should be servants of WHOM? Who should we be servants too? I suppose the MASTER that bought us... And that is how the CUP WILL PASS ME BY! Look what happens when Jesus returns after this first prayer... Jesus finds them ASLEEP!!! Then He said to Peter, Peter that was a Satan not long ago by saying Jesus will not go through the process and Jesus said.... GET BEHIND ME SATAN... So this same Peter now hears Jesus ask him... What? Could you not watch with me one hour? Now Pickles comes the LESSON..... Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeediswilling, but the fleshisweak.He left and again prayed the same prayer, untill the hour was there, but He left them alseep and then when he woke them He said…. Behold the hour is at hand…… Now the cup that had to pass…. Jesus was sorrowful for JUDAS ISCARIOT… untill the END He still hoped that Judas would REPENT! That is just how GRACE and LOVE of God works. Even when He died He said … FORGIVE THEM THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.

Judas failed, Simon Peter failed, ALL FAILED, but God restored some to be VICTORIOUS... Judas was not one of them.... He did not turn to God. God did not baptize Him with the Spirit that is NOT WEAK. Judas had a unwilling spirit in his weak flesh. Not Peter, he had a willing spirit in weak flesh. That is the difference... willing spirits go to GOD, unwilling does not! Willing spirits BEATS THE WEAK FLESH, unwiling does not. The flesh beats the unwilling spirit to NOT DO GOD'S WILL. Only the willing spirits FOLLOW the Holy Spirit to God. Unwilling spirits DO NOT FOLLOW GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT. SELA! Period.

Where does the WILLING SPIRIT comes from? That we can discuss another time.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#4
#4
For me; Christ was set on what He was here to do. When I hear people say that He was asking for that time to pass from him, It does not seem right to me. Why? Because of passages like this one:

Luke 24:7 (KJV) Christ speaking
7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

It is recorded in the garden of Garden of Gethsemane passages that when he went to pray there, just before His capture. That He asked God that the cup would pass from Him as recorded in the English Bible.


Matthew 26:

36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.


What I'm saying is there is a deeper meaning to what Christ was asking for here. I think that, He was really asking for the cup of God's wrath to pass from the children. Not Christ. Because of this scripture I have to take into account:


Revelation 14:10 ( This is the cup I think He was really talking about )



10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#5
#5
Add this to my original post - Here is another place I remember :

Matthew 16 :

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
 
A

AgapeSpiritEyes

Guest
#6
#6
pickles said:
Do you ever wonder at what Jesus went through when He was praying in the garden before He was betrayed and took the cross.
I have been lately, mostly because of a few things that are spoken to in this scripture.
First, that He went to the garden to pray.
I have found comfort that Jesus, who is the son of God, always prayed.
Second, that Jesus felt great agony and sorrow.
Agony over what was to come.
I have wondered about this sorrow, was it for the suffering He would go through?
Or was it the sorrow of the gift being given, that many would refuse.
I often consider this amazing and loving gift given, this gift that brings so much to us, and Jesus knowing the value and love of this gift, and yet seeing there will still be those that refuse it.
Third and the most telling for me, was that Jesus asked if this cup could pass, yet said, not my will but yours Father.
I have found it interesting that Jesus spoke to setting His will aside for God's will, as this speaks to the truth about man's will vs God's will.
Interesting that will is so spoken to in this scripture.
Although one might say we who are called, know that we cannot live by our will, but must set aside our will for God's will.

What matters the most though, is that Jesus accepted the task He was called to do.
Even though left alone by the apostles, in agony over what was to come.
God's love was fullfilled for us in Jesus, and all given to us by His sacrifice.

Please share your thoughts on the agony in the garden.

God bless :)
pickles
Click to expand...
Thank you pickles for your thoughts on Jesus and theGarden, i have thought about this and discussed this with a close brother,there are many beliefs and after all the discussion and thought, it seems thatour Lord was carrying the experience of every possibility everything that Hehad not experienced: the cross the whipping post the mocking, the false trial, sufferingthe betrayal the loneliness along with satan coming with darkness neverexperienced, judas being a betraying chosen one that jeopardized Him going tothe cross (possible by lynching him in the garden), the cross on which that hewould not see or feel or hear the Father as he had all His life plus untoldoppression of demons and finally death, But in the Garden angels strengthenedHim to be filled and empowered with the Joy set before Him that being to bringand introduce those of Faith in His work and atonement so as to present us toour Father that is the Lord's Joy and strength that overcame all of the garden,whipped, His legs and arms pulled out of socket, nailed to the cross naked, oursin our death His death our torture (our hell) our grave and His grave for Himself and forus.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#7
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#7
Also when Jesus said Eli Eli Lama Sabacthani, I think He was showing us the exact opposite of what these words mean.

Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Isn't it a little strange that hardly anyone acknowledges that the Lord Jesus is reciting the 22nd Psalm while on the Cross!!!???!!

The Lord was showing us that God hasn't forsaken us and that He never will. His Love poured out to us by His Sacrifice on the Cross...

That one blows my mind. What an awesome thing. To be nailed to a cross and STILL be teaching those around Him.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#8
#8
I love the rose:cool:
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#10
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#10
Cobus said:
Pickles let us go and spend that time with Jesus and SEE what happened there. Let us go through it step by step so that we not get lost on what transpired there. It is VERY important...

Jesus knew He was going to die and what we should not forget was that Jesus asked His three most loyal disciples to jin Him to PRAY and WATCH with him. Jesus started by telling the other disciples to sit there where they were and HE will go and pray YONDER. Then HE TOOK PETER, JAMES AND JOHN with him and only THEN BEGAN TO BE SORROWFUL AND VERY HEAVY..

Now let us look at Jesus and what followed. He went to go and pray the Bible says He began to be sorrowful and very heavy... And Jesus said to them... My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. Jesus was God, we know that, but He was God in the flesh, so the soul part was as human as we are human, and that was the part that had teh emotions, not the FAITH OR CONVICTIONS... MY SOUL He said.. The soul is in the blood, and the blood would soon be shed, UNTO DEATH.... Jesus knew His blood will soon be shed for the sacrifice of
ALL SIN... God said without bloodshed there is NO FORGIVENESS!

So Jesus went a little further than this three as well... and there He started to pray. Now we have to see something you might have missed... In John 17 it says Jesus LIFTED HIS EYES TO HEAVEN AND SAID... AND HERE IN MATTHEW 26 THE BIBLE SAYS HE FELL ON HIS FACE AND PRAYED, SAYING....

I get this idea this was the one and only REQUEST Jesus asked Father... All the other’s he was only saying, not asking or praying. Remember that HE DID SPEAK GOD’S WORDS NOT HIS OWN....Why would God ask HIMSELF for something? So there is something a bit deeper here, and if we understand this we will understand salvation....

Jesus did not want to skip the cross and the blood-shedding, for that He was prepared for even before the earth was made.... But He was hoping and ASKING that this WAITING to be arrested would now pass. That they would now come and take Him.... It is a Godly NATURE to get bad things behind as quick as possible. We do the same EVERY TIME WE ARE SORROWFUL AND VERY HEAVY... we ask.... GOD LET THIS PASS US, PLEASE.... Jesus just called it a cup.

Ricky touched the Truth here. Jesus had to become me and you on the cross.... He had to die in my place and BECOME ME!!!! That is why He had to say.... ELI ELI LAMA SABACHTANI.... My God, My God why have thou forsaken me!.... It was Jesus asking God that, because WE HAVE FORSAKEN GOD WITH OUR SIN.... God had to let Jesus die to buy us free. But this is where people stop with the Truth but not GOD!... He says YOU ARE BOUGHT WITH A HIGH PRICE.. DO NOT BECOME SERVANTS OF MEN!!!!

AH!!!! If we are not to be servants of men then we should be servants of WHOM? Who should we be servants too? I suppose the MASTER that bought us... And that is how the CUP WILL PASS ME BY! Look what happens when Jesus returns after this first prayer... Jesus finds them ASLEEP!!! Then He said to Peter, Peter that was a Satan not long ago by saying Jesus will not go through the process and Jesus said.... GET BEHIND ME SATAN... So this same Peter now hears Jesus ask him... What? Could you not watch with me one hour? Now Pickles comes the LESSON..... Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeediswilling, but the fleshisweak.He left and again prayed the same prayer, untill the hour was there, but He left them alseep and then when he woke them He said…. Behold the hour is at hand…… Now the cup that had to pass…. Jesus was sorrowful for JUDAS ISCARIOT… untill the END He still hoped that Judas would REPENT! That is just how GRACE and LOVE of God works. Even when He died He said … FORGIVE THEM THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.

Judas failed, Simon Peter failed, ALL FAILED, but God restored some to be VICTORIOUS... Judas was not one of them.... He did not turn to God. God did not baptize Him with the Spirit that is NOT WEAK. Judas had a unwilling spirit in his weak flesh. Not Peter, he had a willing spirit in weak flesh. That is the difference... willing spirits go to GOD, unwilling does not! Willing spirits BEATS THE WEAK FLESH, unwiling does not. The flesh beats the unwilling spirit to NOT DO GOD'S WILL. Only the willing spirits FOLLOW the Holy Spirit to God. Unwilling spirits DO NOT FOLLOW GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT. SELA! Period.

Where does the WILLING SPIRIT comes from? That we can discuss another time.
Click to expand...
Many good words here, I consider them also, alot. :)
Although I still see Jesus as asking for the cup to pass, not because He wanted it to, but because He was also flesh, and He had to show that He overcame flesh for us as well.
Jesus was saying, when He said not my will but yours to God Our Father, that flesh must be set aside, and ones will is set aside as well, for God's will, trusting all to Him!

For Jesus said, "fear not, for I have overcome the world!" :)

Thankyou for your thoughts cobus :), for yes, there is much to learn from Jesus and His time in the garden.
It does bring one to wonder and consider that Jesus said, there is no greater gift, than to lay down ones life for another.

God bless
pickles
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#11
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#11
nathan3 said:
For me; Christ was set on what He was here to do. When I hear people say that He was asking for that time to pass from him, It does not seem right to me. Why? Because of passages like this one:

Luke 24:7 (KJV) Christ speaking
7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

It is recorded in the garden of Garden of Gethsemane passages that when he went to pray there, just before His capture. That He asked God that the cup would pass from Him as recorded in the English Bible.


Matthew 26:

36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.


What I'm saying is there is a deeper meaning to what Christ was asking for here. I think that, He was really asking for the cup of God's wrath to pass from the children. Not Christ. Because of this scripture I have to take into account:


Revelation 14:10 ( This is the cup I think He was really talking about )



10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Click to expand...
I like what you have spoken to about the cup passing.
Ive read the psalm as well, but had not considered it in this way as to Jesus saying let this cup pass.
Im going to read this more, as it trully does open ones eyes to more. :)

Thankyou and God bless
pickles
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#12
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#12
Grandpa said:
Also when Jesus said Eli Eli Lama Sabacthani, I think He was showing us the exact opposite of what these words mean.

Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Isn't it a little strange that hardly anyone acknowledges that the Lord Jesus is reciting the 22nd Psalm while on the Cross!!!???!!

The Lord was showing us that God hasn't forsaken us and that He never will. His Love poured out to us by His Sacrifice on the Cross...

That one blows my mind. What an awesome thing. To be nailed to a cross and STILL be teaching those around Him.
Click to expand...
I always likedthe psalm connection as well.
Yes, I agree that everything Jesus did was to teach us, but also to show us that He overcame all for us, so that in Him, we can overcome as well. :)
Lately I have come to know even more in Jesus, that even the worst life brings, or others do to me, has no power over me, as long as I keep my eyes on Jesus.
For all glory is the Lord's!!!!

God bless
pickles
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#13
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#13
cfultz3 said:
Far beneath the bitter snow lies a seed that, with the sun's help, grows into the rose. i like that song too.
Click to expand...
Ive never heard the song, its just roses have always held a special place in my love for God, and His love for me.

God bless
pickles
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#15
#15
Jesus was not asking not to die. He was praying that the cup, (Body) be acceptable as a sin offering.
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#16
#16
JLHillsSr said:
Jesus was not asking not to die. He was praying that the cup, (Body) be acceptable as a sin offering.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree with you there. I don't think that's an accurate interpretation.
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#17
#17
Donkeyfish07 said:
I have to disagree with you there. I don't think that's an accurate interpretation.
Click to expand...
Then why does he say to the Father:
Mar 15:34 KJV - And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#18
#18
JLHillsSr said:
Then why does he say to the Father:
Mar 15:34 KJV - And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Click to expand...
That's not really related to him asking for the cup to pass from him, but nevertheless your will be done interpretation I was disagreeing with......but to answer, that's a direct reference to Psalm 22. He was referring to an old prophecy about himself that was in the process of being fulfilled :).

Why i disagreed originally is because asking for the cup to pass from him.....he knew he was going to suffer and that it was going to be hard...but still yet, he said nevertheless your will be done, not mine. I think he's obviously referring to what he's about to go through, I don't understand how it can be interpreted to mean that he hopes is body is acceptable...he already knew that it was.
 
J

JLHillsSr

Guest
#19
#19
Donkeyfish07 said:
That's not really related to him asking for the cup to pass from him, but nevertheless your will be done interpretation I was disagreeing with......but to answer, that's a direct reference to Psalm 22. He was referring to an old prophecy about himself that was in the process of being fulfilled :).

Why i disagreed originally is because asking for the cup to pass from him.....he knew he was going to suffer and that it was going to be hard...but still yet, he said nevertheless your will be done, not mine. I think he's obviously referring to what he's about to go through, I don't understand how it can be interpreted to mean that he hopes is body is acceptable...he already knew that it was.
Click to expand...
There is accualy two prayers going on here.

Here it is asked that the cup be passed:
Mat 26:38 KJV - Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
Mat 26:39 KJV - And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].
Mat 26:40 KJV - And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Mat 26:41 KJV - Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.

Now it is asked that the cup not be passed:
Mat 26:42 KJV - He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
 
D

Donkeyfish07

Guest
#20
#20
The whole point of that was that he was submitting to God's will, not his own. He's meaning the same thing in both instances.
 
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