The sanctification process is taking on the image of Christ. Taking on His character. God's law is a reflection of His character which is why the law brings us to Christ Gal 3:24 and perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7. God wrote His law in our hearts Heb 8:10 because God does not want us to sin and its where sin begins Mat 5:19-30 and in doing so- when we rely on our own rules/traditions over obeying His commandments are hearts are far from Him Mat 15:3-14. Jesus wants us close and to be overcomers 1 Corinthians 15:57 and to seek Him and His righteousness Mat 6:33 which reconciles us through faith Rev 22:14
All Of Israel, Or Just A Remnant?
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Just curious, as you go by "The_old_guy"do you mind telling me how old you are? Most of my friends and relatives have gone to receive their inheritance of heaven. I will be 90 this coming January.
I Romans 9:27, to my understanding, Israel does not reference the whole nation of Israel, but it refers to Jacob whom God changed his name to be called Israel (Gen 32:28) which I call "spiritual Israel" (God's elect) Rom 11:26, And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob/Israel.
Isiah 10:21, The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God. Zeph 3:11-13, In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me, for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
I will also leave in the midst of the an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord. The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth, for they shall feed and lay down, and none shall make them afraid.
Matt 22:14, For many are called, but few are chosen. Many are called, (Israel/Jacob that did not have a wedding garment (a knowledge of the truth [Rom 10:1-3}) But few are chosen (The remnant, who trust in the Lord {Zeph 3:13} ).
All of Israel/Jacob worship God, but have not the knowledge of the truth (Rom 10:1-3).
Saved, according to Strong's concordance, means delivered. The saved in Rom 9:27 means that the remnant are delivered from their ignorance of the truth.
There is a one time only deliverance eternally, and that took place on the cross for all that the Father gave his Son (John 6:37-39),(Eph 1:5) but those that are born again (Jacob/Israel and the remnant) experience many deliverance's as hey sojourn here on earth. These salvation's (deliverance's) are accomplished by the good works of those who are already born again.
If a person applies all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures to eternal deliverance, the scriptures will tend to teach eternal salvation is accomplished by works.
Sorry that my post was so long, but there are many more scriptures that harmonize with this theory.
I Romans 9:27, to my understanding, Israel does not reference the whole nation of Israel, but it refers to Jacob whom God changed his name to be called Israel (Gen 32:28) which I call "spiritual Israel" (God's elect) Rom 11:26, And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob/Israel.
Isiah 10:21, The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God. Zeph 3:11-13, In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me, for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.
I will also leave in the midst of the an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord. The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth, for they shall feed and lay down, and none shall make them afraid.
Matt 22:14, For many are called, but few are chosen. Many are called, (Israel/Jacob that did not have a wedding garment (a knowledge of the truth [Rom 10:1-3}) But few are chosen (The remnant, who trust in the Lord {Zeph 3:13} ).
All of Israel/Jacob worship God, but have not the knowledge of the truth (Rom 10:1-3).
Saved, according to Strong's concordance, means delivered. The saved in Rom 9:27 means that the remnant are delivered from their ignorance of the truth.
There is a one time only deliverance eternally, and that took place on the cross for all that the Father gave his Son (John 6:37-39),(Eph 1:5) but those that are born again (Jacob/Israel and the remnant) experience many deliverance's as hey sojourn here on earth. These salvation's (deliverance's) are accomplished by the good works of those who are already born again.
If a person applies all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures to eternal deliverance, the scriptures will tend to teach eternal salvation is accomplished by works.
Sorry that my post was so long, but there are many more scriptures that harmonize with this theory.
How did any cjrostian ever become born again lol they had to be born to exist …but how do they without faith become born “ again “ ?
were any of Jesus original disciples born again before he died and rose ? Faith originates fro. His word in the gospel we have to hear it first before belief is determined
“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:16-17
and one can have faith until they first hear the message of Jesus Christ and no one can be born again without faith
Gotta hear the truth in order to believe it hearing comes first belief next
were any of Jesus original disciples born again before he died and rose ? Faith originates fro. His word in the gospel we have to hear it first before belief is determined
“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Romans 10:16-17
and one can have faith until they first hear the message of Jesus Christ and no one can be born again without faith
Gotta hear the truth in order to believe it hearing comes first belief next
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I take it like it says that we are sanctified by the offering of Jesus body on our behalf
I think that “ sanctification “ is pro ably misunderstood as a process we work towards rather than what it plainly and clearly says in the holy scripture
airs kind of hard to read this in the Bible
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
Hebrews 10:10 KJV
and then have someone explain the rigorous process and works of “the sanctification process “
It’s a conflict and I’m always going to choose what’s plainly and clearly written because I’m a believer not a teacher or prophet or wise man but a believer of Jesus Christ .
where does the Bible explain “the sanctification process” ? given it’s a bibke discussion forum seems as if the scriptures sort of make it easy to understand we’re sanctified by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ flesh and blood
I don’t believe in add libbing or creating contrary doctrines to what’s there but rather accepting what’s there and learning
but it’s just my thought seems basic we’re sanctified once for all by the sacrifice of Jesus in our behalf we’re acceptable only because he is acceptable
I think that “ sanctification “ is pro ably misunderstood as a process we work towards rather than what it plainly and clearly says in the holy scripture
airs kind of hard to read this in the Bible
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
Hebrews 10:10 KJV
and then have someone explain the rigorous process and works of “the sanctification process “
It’s a conflict and I’m always going to choose what’s plainly and clearly written because I’m a believer not a teacher or prophet or wise man but a believer of Jesus Christ .
where does the Bible explain “the sanctification process” ? given it’s a bibke discussion forum seems as if the scriptures sort of make it easy to understand we’re sanctified by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ flesh and blood
I don’t believe in add libbing or creating contrary doctrines to what’s there but rather accepting what’s there and learning
but it’s just my thought seems basic we’re sanctified once for all by the sacrifice of Jesus in our behalf we’re acceptable only because he is acceptable
You could have this experience or similar to it.
As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.
As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.
We have to harmonize scripture. We are only sanctified by the Truth of God's Word John 17:17 and only God can sanctify us Eze 20:12. There is no sanctification in being disobedient to God and His law. It is what Jesus came to save us from Mat 1:21 Christ sanctified us by the offering of His body, but not everyone accepts this free gift, as they still want to cling to their old life and not die with Christ and became a new creature in Him. Thats the condemnation, not seeking and coming to the Truth of His Word, but staying in darkness (sin) John 3:18-20
Right. Hearing produces faith. I believe hearing is also given...Matthew 13:10-17.
Given this, I believe spiritual life, what is called converted in the above passage, is the result of the life of the Spirit indwelling the believer. I believe this affects the individual in every aspect...mind, heart, and will. I see this as what happened to the 3,000 who responded the day of Pentecost. I believe this is what happened that led to their response in Acts 2:37:
...when they heard this...their minds were affected...
...they were pricked in their hearts...their heart was circumcised...
...what shall we do...their wills were affected...
So it is my belief that the response to repent and be baptized...Acts 2:38...was born out of the work of God in those individuals.
I realize this isn't everyone's view but I believe it is the teaching of scripture.
Given this, I believe spiritual life, what is called converted in the above passage, is the result of the life of the Spirit indwelling the believer. I believe this affects the individual in every aspect...mind, heart, and will. I see this as what happened to the 3,000 who responded the day of Pentecost. I believe this is what happened that led to their response in Acts 2:37:
...when they heard this...their minds were affected...
...they were pricked in their hearts...their heart was circumcised...
...what shall we do...their wills were affected...
So it is my belief that the response to repent and be baptized...Acts 2:38...was born out of the work of God in those individuals.
I realize this isn't everyone's view but I believe it is the teaching of scripture.
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“Or do we need to die with Christ as well, which means die of our old ways and be reborn in Him. “
yeah that’s in Paul’s doctrine it’s just not about sanctification. Your talking about repentance and obedience that had nothing to do with being sanctified sanctification is something only God can do for us
“Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”
Jeremiah 1:5
Note sanctification isnt something we do for ourselves
“For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.”
1 Corinthians 7:14 KJV
“for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”
1 Timothy 4:5 KJV
God sanctifies himself as a man and us through telling us the truth of the gospel and inviting belief
“And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.”
John 17:19 KJV
I think simply sanctification is misunderstood as “ perfected obedience “ it isn’t at all it is God setting someone apart specifically for his purposes for a specific task or reward or job or service or even inheritance
it doesn’t mean a sinner is now beyond temptation and sin it’s something God does for us through Christ
This is still true however
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
and this
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
and also this bit this doesn’t have anything to do with sanctification but judgement
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
Philippians 2:12-13 KJV
No one’s advocating sin just saying sanctification isn’t accomplished by the believer through efforts and works ect this doesn’t mean we’re already saved because we were sanctified but that now we have no excuse left
yeah that’s in Paul’s doctrine it’s just not about sanctification. Your talking about repentance and obedience that had nothing to do with being sanctified sanctification is something only God can do for us
“Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.”
Jeremiah 1:5
Note sanctification isnt something we do for ourselves
“For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.”
1 Corinthians 7:14 KJV
“for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”
1 Timothy 4:5 KJV
God sanctifies himself as a man and us through telling us the truth of the gospel and inviting belief
“And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.”
John 17:19 KJV
I think simply sanctification is misunderstood as “ perfected obedience “ it isn’t at all it is God setting someone apart specifically for his purposes for a specific task or reward or job or service or even inheritance
it doesn’t mean a sinner is now beyond temptation and sin it’s something God does for us through Christ
This is still true however
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
2 Corinthians 5:10-11 KJV
and this
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
and also this bit this doesn’t have anything to do with sanctification but judgement
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
Philippians 2:12-13 KJV
No one’s advocating sin just saying sanctification isn’t accomplished by the believer through efforts and works ect this doesn’t mean we’re already saved because we were sanctified but that now we have no excuse left
We are only sanctified by the Truth of God's Word
Um ….yeah right but not if we reject what his word says though
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. ( that’s the truth of Gods word )
but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, And in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.”
Hebrews 10:10, 12, 14-18 KJV
I think your mixing up sanctification with eternal judgement
Um ….yeah right but not if we reject what his word says though
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. ( that’s the truth of Gods word )
but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, And in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.”
Hebrews 10:10, 12, 14-18 KJV
I think your mixing up sanctification with eternal judgement
I truly believe these words are fact. And I agree some might not agree but it doesn't matter because it is your own understanding. And this is your conviction. I say this because you have presented these same thoughts to me before. I like how we are all different in our understanding. It would be boring if we all had the same understanding.
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“Given this, I believe spiritual life, what is called converted in the above passage, is the result of the life of the Spirit indwelling the believer. “
right people who have no Holy Spirit need to hear the gospel and receive him
thats what being born again means . No one could be saved if they didnt need to be born again
brother your views are always respected by me , always enjoy hearing your take
everyone is already lost and condemned because we’ve all sinned
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
Romans 5:12 KJV
see everyone is in the same sinking boat some aren’t already saved they are all doomed we are all doomed to the first death
It’s why we have to be born again because we condemned ourselves through the flesh but God is working to save us through the spirit
everyone is on the same boat facing the same eternal death God wants to save us from death so he has offered a new beginning.
everyone can be born again by the same process but some will beer and believe other will hear and reject that’s what will determine the outcome
that’s just my own thought however anyone can be born again not everyone will be and it won’t be because God failed them or favored others but that be accepted his offer of the gospel and one didn’t
right people who have no Holy Spirit need to hear the gospel and receive him
thats what being born again means . No one could be saved if they didnt need to be born again
brother your views are always respected by me , always enjoy hearing your take
everyone is already lost and condemned because we’ve all sinned
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
Romans 5:12 KJV
see everyone is in the same sinking boat some aren’t already saved they are all doomed we are all doomed to the first death
It’s why we have to be born again because we condemned ourselves through the flesh but God is working to save us through the spirit
everyone is on the same boat facing the same eternal death God wants to save us from death so he has offered a new beginning.
everyone can be born again by the same process but some will beer and believe other will hear and reject that’s what will determine the outcome
that’s just my own thought however anyone can be born again not everyone will be and it won’t be because God failed them or favored others but that be accepted his offer of the gospel and one didn’t
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