All that are given, All that believe

[Red33]

Jn 6: 37-40

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus made sure that we as believers would not get off or unbalanced in our understanding about God's elect as illustrated in this passage. Not only is the will of the Father that all those given to the Son should not be lost but that all those that believe upon the Son may have everlasting life. There are those given and those that believe and they both will be raised up at the last day. Our friends that would like to persuade us of Jesus Christ sacrifice and shed blood to only be limited for the elect and not also for those that would believe that are in the world are missing the goodness of God when Jesus Christ was sent by God as the bread of heaven to give His life for the world (Jn 6:33).

 

[Red33]

The grace of God is not partial because God will give grace to any heart that humbles itself no matter how much pride it has experienced (1Pt 5:5, Jm 4:6). Many believer's never put themselves in a place to be humble, so God has to ordain certain things in their life to humble them to give them grace. Jesus choose twelve disciples but He would never be able to impart His life of grace and truth unless they humbled themselves. He was not partial to the twelve but they followed Him and learned from Him, but when it came to the cross they all forsook Him. Later they humbled themselves and were restored in their fellowship with Him at the Sea of Tiberius (Jn 21).

Have you ever done something you were ashamed of and a friend came to see you and never said a word about it, but just loved you as a friend and gave you grace you did not deserve. A friend loves at all times and knows how important it is for the heart to receive grace and to walk in the love of God. God is no respecter of persons. He wasn't to the Jews as His elect and He won't be to you or I, but if we humble ourselves He will always give us grace, especially when we don't deserve it. Some never get grace because they never ask and they never ask because of pride that thinks it doesn't need it.

MY OPINION ONLY - Lucifer was found with iniquity in his heart because he became proud and didn't think that he needed God's throne ministry any longer. When God looked upon Lucifer's heart He found iniquity (Ez 28:15) and had to remove him from heaven because that iniquity infected 1/3 of the heavenly host of angelic beings. Pride enveloped in iniquity is a very powerful force of deception in the heart that ends up as an infectious evil leading many astray as it did in the garden with the woman and Adam.

 

[tribesman]

The grace of God is not partial because God will give grace to any heart that humbles itself no matter how much pride it has experienced (1Pt 5:5, Jm 4:6). Many believer's never put themselves in a place to be humble, so God has to ordain certain things in their life to humble them to give them grace. Jesus choose twelve disciples but He would never be able to impart His life of grace and truth unless they humbled themselves. He was not partial to the twelve but they followed Him and learned from Him, but when it came to the cross they all forsook Him. Later they humbled themselves and were restored in their fellowship with Him at the Sea of Tiberius (Jn 21).

Have you ever done something you were ashamed of and a friend came to see you and never said a word about it, but just loved you as a friend and gave you grace you did not deserve. A friend loves at all times and knows how important it is for the heart to receive grace and to walk in the love of God. God is no respecter of persons. He wasn't to the Jews as His elect and He won't be to you or I, but if we humble ourselves He will always give us grace, especially when we don't deserve it. Some never get grace because they never ask and they never ask because of pride that thinks it doesn't need it....

An unregenerate soul cannot possibly work up a humility that would earn God's salvific grace.

Unregenerate souls are all proud. Gal.5:23 says that humility (meekness, KJV) is a fruit of the Spirit, something which all regenerate souls, believers in Christ, have - regardless of if they do not feel like it themselves, or other men do not think they have it.

Nevertheless, believers are warned not to be overcome by evil and not to become entangled with worldliness. Of a sure, the tare among the wheat will be evident in this as they do not mind and heed these warnings. This because they are unregenerate.

 

[Forest]

Jn 6: 37-40

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus made sure that we as believers would not get off or unbalanced in our understanding about God's elect as illustrated in this passage. Not only is the will of the Father that all those given to the Son should not be lost but that all those that believe upon the Son may have everlasting life. There are those given and those that believe and they both will be raised up at the last day. Our friends that would like to persuade us of Jesus Christ sacrifice and shed blood to only be limited for the elect and not also for those that would believe that are in the world are missing the goodness of God when Jesus Christ was sent by God as the bread of heaven to give His life for the world (Jn 6:33).

Let me see if I am understanding what you are saying. Verse 39 are those that he gave to Christ and they are not believers. Verse 40 are those that believe on him and have everlasting life. So there are two different groups of people that Christ died for, those given and those that believe. Is this right? So you are saying that you don't have to believe to get saved?

 

[Red33]

Let me see if I am understanding what you are saying. Verse 39 are those that he gave to Christ and they are not believers. Verse 40 are those that believe on him and have everlasting life. So there are two different groups of people that Christ died for, those given and those that believe. Is this right? So you are saying that you don't have to believe to get saved?

If this is how you think and the conclusions you have come to concerning what was said, then there is something very wrong with your premise and the understanding that you have in your heart. I don't know if that premise could ever be converted over to the truth that God's goodness leads sinful man to repentance, but all things are possible with God. Being crucified for the sins of the whole world was the premise for which God sent His Son so that whosoever would believe in Him would freely be given everlasting life and never perish. The elect are simply whosoever believes. The call to salvation goes out to all men for God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Perhaps if you would read (Ps 107) in the light of God's heart toward the children of men you might get a glimpse of how great God's goodness really is toward all sinful men and those that he has redeemed.

 

[Red33]

An unregenerate soul cannot possibly work up a humility that would earn God's salvific grace.

Unregenerate souls are all proud. Gal.5:23 says that humility (meekness, KJV) is a fruit of the Spirit, something which all regenerate souls, believers in Christ, have - regardless of if they do not feel like it themselves, or other men do not think they have it.

Nevertheless, believers are warned not to be overcome by evil and not to become entangled with worldliness. Of a sure, the tare among the wheat will be evident in this as they do not mind and heed these warnings. This because they are unregenerate.

There is an important premise that has to be understood concerning humility in the heart. When a person or an unregerated man exercises humility or humbles them self, it is always in response to some initiation by God through words, actions or circumstances. God stirs up the heart of the unregenerated man through the force of conviction that comes by the Holy Spirit. The measure of that conviction with be according to the measure of pride in the heart, more pride, more conviction. But, if that heart responds to God conviction, no matter what measure of pride exists, God will give an abundance of grace to that heart and God will turn from resisting that proud unregenrate man. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. No one is claiming that the unregerate man can somehow work up humility, but any man that is filled with pride can humble themselves when God stirs their heart through conviction and God will give them grace.

 

[tribesman]

There is an important premise that has to be understood concerning humility in the heart. When a person or an unregerated man exercises humility or humbles them self, it is always in response to some initiation by God through words, actions or circumstances. God stirs up the heart of the unregenerated man through the force of conviction that comes by the Holy Spirit. The measure of that conviction with be according to the measure of pride in the heart, more pride, more conviction. But, if that heart responds to God conviction, no matter what measure of pride exists, God will give an abundance of grace to that heart and God will turn from resisting that proud unregenrate man. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. No one is claiming that the unregerate man can somehow work up humility, but any man that is filled with pride can humble themselves when God stirs their heart through conviction and God will give them grace.

As i see it humility is only a fruit of the Spirit, that meaning a fruit of God's work, God's doing, for and in man. The call to humble oneself goes only to the regenerate, not to the unregenerate, and this call is not primarily about salvific grace, it is "more grace" i.e. to receive higher callings, higher offices and more temporal blessings.

Unregenerate souls may in a sense "humble themselves", but not in the sense of becoming thereby justified before God. There is a wide difference between the humility that is a fruit of the Spirit, wherein God has truly abased, or humbled, a wrecked sinner's soul and the "humility" that the natural man, the unrepentant sinner, may produce. We need to see this!

We need also to be very careful with the term pride here. Before God, no man, however much holy, can honestly swear themselves totally free from pride. And the man who commends himself, saying "I am humble" may very well already have shown great pride by doing so. Only Jesus could rightly commend Himself and His humble heart.

However, pride is not only a root sin, but a tricky vice too as it really has some virtue in it. People might say that they are proud for what they or their children has accomplished or proud to be american etc. Some will even say that they are proud to be a member of a certain church or to be a christian! Yes, few things are as sensitive as the issue of pride, what people love and rejoice in they will eventually have pride in. Many sincere and devout yet deceived souls are very proud about their heresies.

Here much discernment is needed. To discern if someone is really into humbling their selves or if they have at the least tasted the humility that comes with regeneration, we must look at a number of markers and not only mere behavior or apparence. Let's look at the attitude towards God's word, at what is believed and taught. And if we have to boast and feel "proud" about anything, let that only and alone be in the cross of Christ.

 

[Red33]

There have been scores of men and women, especially unregenerate men, over time, who were living in wicked pride in their evil heart of unbelief when they heard the gospel and God brought conviction into their heart so that they would have to face the reality of truth about their condition before a holy God. They resisted this message over and over until one day they finally humbled them self and God stopped resisting them and gave them grace, saving them and cleansing them despite their pride and evil heart of unbelief. God is the one that turned them but they had to respond through the humility of faith to what God was doing in drawing them to Himself. They could have continued to resist through pride and God would have never been able to save them or give them grace.

Many people sit in a local church week after week and live in the religious pride of their own understanding of doctrine through the flesh and this is humanism and God rejects their worship. God continues to resist them because of this religious pride that knows men after the flesh and not after the blood of Christ, who ridicule and despise in their heart those men that God has raised up for the church to preach and teach and those that follow their teaching. They speak evil of the leadership and of things they don't understand and criticize what is being taught to sway others away from it. Religious pride is the greatest infectious evil of the church and spreads the fastest because it has an appearance of godliness. These corrupters God will deal with, but we are to keep our eye on Christ and the prize of God's calling.

 

[tribesman]

There have been scores of men and women, especially unregenerate men, over time, who were living in wicked pride in their evil heart of unbelief when they heard the gospel and God brought conviction into their heart so that they would have to face the reality of truth about their condition before a holy God. They resisted this message over and over until one day they finally humbled them self and God stopped resisting them and gave them grace, saving them and cleansing them despite their pride and evil heart of unbelief. God is the one that turned them but they had to respond through the humility of faith to what God was doing in drawing them to Himself. They could have continued to resist through pride and God would have never been able to save them or give them grace.

Many people sit in a local church week after week and live in the religious pride of their own understanding of doctrine through the flesh and this is humanism and God rejects their worship. God continues to resist them because of this religious pride that knows men after the flesh and not after the blood of Christ, who ridicule and despise in their heart those men that God has raised up for the church to preach and teach and those that follow their teaching. They speak evil of the leadership and of things they don't understand and criticize what is being taught to sway others away from it. Religious pride is the greatest infectious evil of the church and spreads the fastest because it has an appearance of godliness. These corrupters God will deal with, but we are to keep our eye on Christ and the prize of God's calling.

I believe that when a soul positively responds to God's calling then he is already regenerate. As a result/fruit of regeneration he will repent and believe. I do not believe that a naturall/unregenerate man either can nor wants to or desire to do this, at any time. Neither can natural/unregenerate man prepare to rightly receive God's grace.

For those that are regenerate the call to receive "more grace", not necessarily meaning salvific grace, which they already have, can indeed be received more or less poorly. But this is another issue. Salvific grace is received in the new birth, which is the result of God working conviction and illuminating that soul of sin, righteousness and judgment. This humility is a fruit of the Spirit and as such can never be worked up by a natural/unregenate man.

We have in Mary, the mother of Christ, an example of a humble woman who received great grace from God to bear the Savior of the world in her womb. But, of course, she already had salvific grace and was righteous.

Many unregenerate souls sit around in various churches and sects, many of them are even professing christians and some of them would even be far more "committed" than most of us. Yet their worship and labor are rejected. Why? Because they are not regenerate. In that state they remain in their sins, inclusive of the root sin of pride.