-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
When you don't forgive others it is a burden. Not necessarily for them as some people just move on while you're still holding a grudge. So the burden is upon yourself, and yes Christ came to free burdens and such burdens were those of the Law. Rules and regulations. In this same sense, you preaching forgiveness for salvation is yet another burden you are trying to lay on the hearts of believers. Not everything Jesus said applies to you. Look at the context.
Yes, God provides supernatural love (agape) for people who could not forgive others no matter how hard they tried. But to say when they were angry they were condemned is to go contrary to the gift of no condemnation that the Word speaks of. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus." If someone wrongs you and you don't forgive them, it does not cost you your salvation. What does it cost you? Your own peace of mind. To be stress free. You want to know whether you forgive a person or not? If they were struggling, in need of food or water, would you help them? If in your heart you could see yourself putting away pride to help this person, then you know within yourself is the ability to forgive them, if it hasn't already taken place.
The only forgiveness, as it were, that saves is God's forgiveness through Christ if you will. Our sins taken away. If you holding a grudge can condemn you to hell, a lot of people would be in a need of a savior. Oh wait, we already have one. His name is Jesus Christ.
Yes, God provides supernatural love (agape) for people who could not forgive others no matter how hard they tried. But to say when they were angry they were condemned is to go contrary to the gift of no condemnation that the Word speaks of. "There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus." If someone wrongs you and you don't forgive them, it does not cost you your salvation. What does it cost you? Your own peace of mind. To be stress free. You want to know whether you forgive a person or not? If they were struggling, in need of food or water, would you help them? If in your heart you could see yourself putting away pride to help this person, then you know within yourself is the ability to forgive them, if it hasn't already taken place.
The only forgiveness, as it were, that saves is God's forgiveness through Christ if you will. Our sins taken away. If you holding a grudge can condemn you to hell, a lot of people would be in a need of a savior. Oh wait, we already have one. His name is Jesus Christ.
I am not speaking against forgiveness. For those 26 years that you were holding those feelings and not forgiving yourself, you were not condemned. Jesus still loved you and you were still a child of God the whole time, so long as you were a Christian, a believer in Christ. Forgiveness is important, I am not, I repeat, speaking against forgiveness.
What I am speaking against is you quoting Jesus who was raising the standard of the Law or bringing the standard to full light that unless you forgive others, you yourself won't be forgiven. That is Law, that is old covenant. That is not grace and that is not New Testament. It is a false doctrine to say that if we don't forgive others, God won't forgive us. The new way is that you have been, past tense, forgiven and therefore you should forgive others. To say that our salvation is dependent upon our forgiveness of others, is to make salvation dependent upon you instead of Jesus. It takes your eyes off of Jesus, your Savior, and makes you yourself the redeemer, the savior, and basically, the means by which you are saved. Want it worded out plainly? It is self-righteousness to hold to the belief that our forgiveness saves us.
What I am speaking against is you quoting Jesus who was raising the standard of the Law or bringing the standard to full light that unless you forgive others, you yourself won't be forgiven. That is Law, that is old covenant. That is not grace and that is not New Testament. It is a false doctrine to say that if we don't forgive others, God won't forgive us. The new way is that you have been, past tense, forgiven and therefore you should forgive others. To say that our salvation is dependent upon our forgiveness of others, is to make salvation dependent upon you instead of Jesus. It takes your eyes off of Jesus, your Savior, and makes you yourself the redeemer, the savior, and basically, the means by which you are saved. Want it worded out plainly? It is self-righteousness to hold to the belief that our forgiveness saves us.
My first reply was to the OP as a solution to their problem. It did not address the issue of them forgiving their father, but what it did do, hopefully, was break free the condemnation that is being thrown upon him by false doctrine. It is important because it goes beyond this one issue of forgiveness he has. If he is ever wronged again or slandered, and he holds resentment towards such people, his life will feel as if he is in and then out of salvation continuously. It is a burden that no man in Christ should bear, especially considering the Gospel.
It turned into a debate because Apostol2013 is perpetuating the belief of the OP which is a burden upon him. The OP came here for relief, and if you show him by scripture that the doctrine that is oppressing him is not biblical, he will be relieved.
It turned into a debate because Apostol2013 is perpetuating the belief of the OP which is a burden upon him. The OP came here for relief, and if you show him by scripture that the doctrine that is oppressing him is not biblical, he will be relieved.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (o. pneuma)
2 For the law of the Spirit (o. pneuma) of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. The key words who live after the spirit and not the flesh .
2 For the law of the Spirit (o. pneuma) of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. The key words who live after the spirit and not the flesh .
Jesus also said:
“If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.” (Mt 5:29-30)
But you don't see any congregations doing this, nor should they because we have the new covenant of grace!
PS: Not going to partake in this conversation any further, I already made me response to the OP. Hopefully, it is freeing for him.
“If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.” (Mt 5:29-30)
But you don't see any congregations doing this, nor should they because we have the new covenant of grace!
PS: Not going to partake in this conversation any further, I already made me response to the OP. Hopefully, it is freeing for him.
Last edited:
2
If we give our whole hearts to Jesus and love him with everything we have
this is not an issue.
there is a fatal sin and a non fatal sin
the fatal sin will kill you
it is doing something you know the Bible says not to do and doing it anyway. that will kill you, willful disobedience.
the non fatal sin is falling because of weakness
you know when you commit this kind of sin that you are trying to overcome it and are pleading with God to remove it from you, this sin is always forgiven and will gbe removed with prayer and faith
the ones who think it dont matter, I cant stop sinning anyway and dont pray for it will perish
this is the danger of once saved always saved, thinking you are going without a struggle and kep right on sinning without remosre or worry
yes in that case one has given up their eternal crown for sin bbecause they like to sin
these are the ones Jesus will say to
I dont know you you who kept on sinning without even a warfare against it.
3 The proof that we love God comes when we keep his commandments and they are not at all troublesome. 4 Every God-begotten person conquers the world's ways. The conquering power that brings the world to its knees is our faith. 5 The person who wins out over the world's ways is simply the one who believes Jesus is the Son of God. 6 Jesus - the Divine Christ! He experienced a life-giving birth and a death-killing death. Not only birth from the womb, but baptismal birth of his ministry and sacrificial death. And all the while the Spirit is confirming the truth, the reality of God's presence at Jesus' baptism and crucifixion, bringing those occasions alive for us.[(s15.7)] A triple testimony: 8 the Spirit, the Baptism, the Crucifixion. And the three in perfect agreement. 9 If we take human testimony at face value, how much more should we be reassured when God gives testimony as he does here, testifying concerning his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God inwardly confirms God's testimony. Whoever refuses to believe in effect calls God a liar, refusing to believe God's own testimony regarding his Son. 11 This is the testimony in essence: God gave us eternal life; the life is in his Son. 12 So, whoever has the Son, has life; whoever rejects the Son, rejects life. 13 My purpose in writing is simply this: that you who believe in God's Son will know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you have eternal life, the reality and not the illusion. 14And how bold and free we then become in his presence, freely asking according to his will, sure that he's listening. 15 And if we're confident that he's listening, we know that what we've asked for is as good as ours. 16 For instance, if we see a Christian believer sinning (clearly I'm not talking about those who make a practice of sin in a way that is "fatal," leading to eternal death), we ask for God's help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal. There is such a thing as a fatal sin, and I'm not urging you to pray about that. 17 Everything we do wrong is sin, but not all sin is fatal. 18 We know that none of the God-begotten makes a practice of sin - fatal sin. The God-begotten are also the God-protected. The Evil One can't lay a hand on them. 19 We know that we are held firm by God; it's only the people of the world who continue in the grip of the Evil One. 20 And we know that the Son of God came so we could recognize and understand the truth of God - what a gift! - and we are living in the Truth itself, in God's Son, Jesus Christ. This Jesus is both True God and Real Life. 21 Dear children, be on guard against all clever facsimiles.
T
Unconditional love is what it says: Love without condition, or exception. Not putting a requirement, prerequisite on the love we have for another. I think it should be easy to forgive someone who isn't sorry. Because while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. We have to remember that our forgiveness of someone doesn't justify them or us. An unrepentant sinner remains under condemnation, and we are not God, who would be perfectly justified in holding OUR SINS against us. The fact that He didn't is a true mark of His Grace. We're not God, we're not holy and righteous in that we can "lord" one's sin over them until they are truly sorry. The issue is that in an injustice committed against us, oftentimes we disregard the Grace we have been shown and implicitly think ourselves to be God. Our inability to forgive means that our sinful flesh is in control and it is 'all about us.'
I had a devoted Christian Mother, and an extremely physically abusive father. I left home at 17 and never really returned until I was in my late thirties. I maintained a close relationship with my mother after she and my father divorced, but until my father got cancer, I would visit him for an hour a year. We had a wonderful afternoon about six months before he passed away. I know that you are hurting, and that you have been deeply scarred. I know that Jesus saved me when I was fourteen. I had many struggles with finding the strength to forgive him. I prayed to God to forgive him, but never had peace. God keep telling me to forgive my father, but I kept depending on my own strength because I really didn't want too. It took me over twenty years to realize that I could. A scripture that I had taught my children and many youth kept coming to mind. "I can do all things through Christ." The hurt disappeared. As I said earlier. I know that you have been deeply hurt and bear many scars. Please put them in the hand of your Savior. He will help you through. No you are not lost, and yes you do have the power to forgive. It will not be easy, but it will be worth it.
JESUS says,
"When you start plowing, do not look back."
"Let the dead bury the dead."
If i look at my father's sins then i miss out looking at mine, day by day opposing CHRIST and failing HIM, and unmerited favor is for all and have been proclaimed to all to turn back to GOD first until now, by HIS will.
You are highly favored and looked upon in Heaven even today of you hurt. i in humble and humility lower than you, encourage you that it is your past. You have buried that old person and now you are new, learning the New Covenant, in order to thrust forward, by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT to excel.
What is reacting in all of us is 'self', that is selfish feelings and desires that sin wants to take opportunity on once again and leave us dead, according to the epistle of James written in the New Testament.
Please forgive me if i have offended you, dearly beloved. Forgiving him sincerely and moving on, you will have a great reward in Heaven.
If you are until now unable, then please consult with JESUS, our Great High Priest in Heaven, even to be unable to forgive, so that HE can sympathize you in all your weaknesses and find help.
"When you start plowing, do not look back."
"Let the dead bury the dead."
If i look at my father's sins then i miss out looking at mine, day by day opposing CHRIST and failing HIM, and unmerited favor is for all and have been proclaimed to all to turn back to GOD first until now, by HIS will.
You are highly favored and looked upon in Heaven even today of you hurt. i in humble and humility lower than you, encourage you that it is your past. You have buried that old person and now you are new, learning the New Covenant, in order to thrust forward, by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT to excel.
What is reacting in all of us is 'self', that is selfish feelings and desires that sin wants to take opportunity on once again and leave us dead, according to the epistle of James written in the New Testament.
Please forgive me if i have offended you, dearly beloved. Forgiving him sincerely and moving on, you will have a great reward in Heaven.
If you are until now unable, then please consult with JESUS, our Great High Priest in Heaven, even to be unable to forgive, so that HE can sympathize you in all your weaknesses and find help.
Nonsense... I quoted 3 verses, its exactly what the word says. How did I twist Luke 17:3? If you think God forgives everyone unconditionally, then your blinded by the new age progressive mind-set that's being taught in many churches today. Sins are not automatically forgiven for unrepentant sinners, which is why the Baptist and Christ encouraged people to repent. Show me (biblically) where either said "Don't repent, your sins are forgiven". Let me ask you, if sins are automatically forgiven, then what in the world is anyone's incentive not to sin?
P
Dan58 Just for the record Forgiveness is for us as much as it is for them we are told to forgive. Jesus said to forgive he placed emphasis on forgiveness of sin either by ourselves or sins against us. When Jesus said it is finished on the cross he meant that it was finished. We are not designed in and of ourselves to walk in such forgiveness a lot of the time for we are natural beings and the natural inclination is to get even. BUT In Christ all things are possible even forgiveness of others as we are told to do. Several scriptures as points of reference speak to forgiveness as healing. I get the if he repent stuff but what if he doesn't repent are we still not to forgive? No that is not what scripture fully teaches we are to forgive in spite of the repentance of others. That releases us from walking in unforgiveness! This is only nonsense to you if your senses are dull See references
Ephesians 4:32 - And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Mark 11:25 - And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Luke 17:3-4 - Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Colossians 3:13 - Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye.
Luke 6:37 - Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Matthew 6:14 - For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
1 Peter 3:9 - Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
James 5:16 - Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew 6:12 - And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Luke 23:34 - Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Matthew 18:21-35 - Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Philippians 4:8 - Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.
Matthew 18:15-20 - Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
2 Chronicles 7:14 - If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Matthew 18:21 - Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jeremiah 31:34 - And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Ephesians 4:32 - And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Mark 11:25 - And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Luke 17:3-4 - Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Colossians 3:13 - Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye.
Luke 6:37 - Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Matthew 6:14 - For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
1 Peter 3:9 - Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
James 5:16 - Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew 6:12 - And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Luke 23:34 - Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Matthew 18:21-35 - Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Philippians 4:8 - Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.
Matthew 18:15-20 - Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
2 Chronicles 7:14 - If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Matthew 18:21 - Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jeremiah 31:34 - And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.