Am I the only one?

[NayborBear]

Re 17:8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

".........when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."


Sometimes, when reading the Bible, especially, when concerning "prophecy", I'll come across a verse, or part of it, and, "stay up all night" (cliche), trying to correctly "interpret" (rightly divide) it.

Methinks, concerning this verse, "Beast"(?), doesn't HAVE to necessarily refer to some form animal. It may, also refer to some (sort of a) "contraption"(mechanical, and/or technological).....Which is the "line of thought", I used to "rightly divide", the remainder of this "explanation" (prophecy).

(That "WAS").....a "picture", came to mind. As in an "image" in the photo, "WAS" there, Yet, "IS NOT " (NOW), Yet, when viewing the photo image: "YET IS"!..........(and, this is only 1)

So many other "who, whats, wheres, and whens" come to mind, that it "boggles" my mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eyx42b96_Hs

 

[Blain]

Your translation of the bible may be the issue, when reading and studying bible prophecy you need to read a version that is easy to understand what translation are you using?

 

[Willie-T]

There was imminent danger from both the Jews and the Romans when John wrote that letter to seven ancient churches. It was deliberately written in a form of coded language that would be easily and clearly understood by the members of those churches who were living in that day. It was not written to us here in the 21st Century, and it cannot be interpreted by applying our thinking today.

Think of the song. "Bye, Bye, Miss American Pie" today.
[video=youtube;uAsV5-Hv-7U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAsV5-Hv-7U[/video]

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here is the mystery. Some were alive once before the law, and because of sin they died, but were then made alive again in Christ by the resurrection from the dead, and shall live forever more. But some who once had a name that they lived, died, and were not, this was because they had revived the first old man image and body of sin; these shall go into destruction.

 

[NayborBear]

Your translation of the bible may be the issue, when reading and studying bible prophecy you need to read a version that is easy to understand what translation are you using?

Am using a KJV Bible, known as the "Companion Bible". The authorized version of the 1611, with the structures and critical, explanatory, and suggestive notes (wide margined), and with 198 appendices.

It also goes very well with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (hard covered) of the Bible.

Tis 1 of those instances, when a thought, or verse "GRABS" holt of ya, and won't let ya continue UNTIL, ya git it "figured out". And, "that" was what I "figured out", from that verse, and was wondering if I was/am the only one who "figured it out" (sees), that way.

 

[NayborBear]

There was imminent danger from both the Jews and the Romans when John wrote that letter to seven ancient churches. It was deliberately written in a form of coded language that would be easily and clearly understood by the members of those churches who were living in that day. It was not written to us here in the 21st Century, and it cannot be interpreted by applying our thinking today.

Think of the song. "Bye, Bye, Miss American Pie" today.
[video=youtube;uAsV5-Hv-7U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAsV5-Hv-7U[/video]

I don't "get it".

 

[oldthennew]

what's important is that you are being LED to study the Holy Word of God,
this should tell you a lot....especially about yourself.....

you say that you are not 'sure' about your standing in Christ?

when anyone has a standing, calling, conversion, there is no DOUBT about what has happened....

and yes, God does and loves to 'boggle-our-minds'.......
when the Holy Spirit indwells us, we start on a brand-new journey that will blow anyone's mind.....

our first taste of our Creator and Saviour brings us to our knees and we find out what the meaning
of humility, thankfulness, and most of all, Holy intervention and Devine Love mean.....

my wife and I pray that your heart remains steadfast and that you seek your Father with all of your heart....

 

[NayborBear]

In my understanding of history, Willie-T, it has also come to mind, that, "As much as things, seem to change, the more, they stay the same".

 

[Willie-T]

I don't "get it".

Don't get what? The fact that John wrote in coded language to keep people from being killed out of retaliation for the letter..... or the association of something being "coded" for just a specific audience to understand it.... or is it the song that you don't get? I'll admit you might be a little young to fully know the people, times, and places and incidents he was singing about, but you should remember some of them.

The whole point is that John never wrote that letter, which he asked to be read in many churches at that particular time in history, to people who might be living 2,000 years in the future. He wrote it to some living people, warning them of things we have taken all out of context, in order to make his book our modern-day crystal ball.

 

[Willie-T]

In my understanding of history, Willie-T, it has also come to mind, that, "As much as things, seem to change, the more, they stay the same".

Yes, there is, undoubtedly, a lot of that very intention in that book........ but that is not its initial, intentional message.

 

[oldthennew]

in the very beginning of REV..it plainly tells us what it is about....

REV.1:3. -
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things
which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

REV. 1:7.
Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him:
and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

this is a combination of the prophecies of Daniel and Zechariah, and, this is a continual Pattern
in the Book of Revelation....'a piece from here and a piece from there'.....
we have to be familiar with OT Prophecies to get the gist....

REV. 1:19, explains further...'Wright the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are,
and the things which shall be here-after'.... -clearly (3) spaces of time, 'past-present, and future'...
the introduction has the main 'clues' to the meaning...

wille, what you have said is 'partially correct', but does not give the 'whole picture' -

we both LOVE, AMERICAN PIE, it is such a good lesson in 'interpretation'.....it is amazing!!!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Re 17:8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

".........when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."


Sometimes, when reading the Bible, especially, when concerning "prophecy", I'll come across a verse, or part of it, and, "stay up all night" (cliche), trying to correctly "interpret" (rightly divide) it.

Methinks, concerning this verse, "Beast"(?), doesn't HAVE to necessarily refer to some form animal. It may, also refer to some (sort of a) "contraption"(mechanical, and/or technological).....Which is the "line of thought", I used to "rightly divide", the remainder of this "explanation" (prophecy).

(That "WAS").....a "picture", came to mind. As in an "image" in the photo, "WAS" there, Yet, "IS NOT " (NOW), Yet, when viewing the photo image: "YET IS"!..........(and, this is only 1)

So many other "who, whats, wheres, and whens" come to mind, that it "boggles" my mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eyx42b96_Hs

Hello NayBorBear,

Regarding the scripture above, to get an understanding of the true meaning of "the beast" that is being spoken of, we must cross reference related scriptures in order to find out what or who it/he is. The book of Daniel is what I call a sister book to Revelation and that because many of the same references regarding end-time events and the beast that are found in Revelation are also be found in the book of Daniel.

For example, in Dan.7, Daniel sees a vision of four beasts, which are identified as four kingdoms, Babylon as the bear, Medo-Persia as the lion, Greece as the Leopard and Rome as the terrifying beast with the iron teeth. The beast in the scripture that you provided, is a revival of that fourth kingdom of iron, which represents Rome, also described as that ten-toed kingdom made of iron and partly baked clay found in Dan.2:31-45, which is soon to come. The beast not only represents a kingdom, but also the king who will rule over it, which is that beast referred to in Revelation. As I said, by cross-referencing scripture, we can arrive at these conclusions. That being said, the beast that you referenced from Rev.17, is identified at the sounding of the fifth trumpet as can be seen in the following scripture:

"They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer)." (Rev.9:11)

In the scripture that you posted above, the beast is said to come up out of the Abyss. Here at the fifth trumpet, an angel will come down out of heaven and open the Abyss letting out those demonic beings to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with stings like that of a scorpion. Then the verse states that those demonic beings have a king over them, who is referred to as "the angel of the Abyss." This is the same "beast" that is being referenced in the scripture that you provided from Rev.17, which is also referred to as coming up out the Abyss.

This is also the same beast who, after he is let out of the Abyss, kills the two witnesses referred to in Rev.11:7-11. He is the same beast who is given authority over the great tribulation saints to make war against them and to conquer them for forty-two months, which is that last 3 1/2 years of that last seven years mentioned in Dan.7:25 and Rev.13:5-8. And finally, he is that same beast ,who after Christ returns to the earth to end the age, is captured along with the false prophet, where both are thrown alive into the lake of fire, which would demonstrate that they are living beings and which is also the meaning regarding the beast "going to his destruction."

The beast that comes up out of the Abyss, is the one who will control the antichrist, also referred to as the man of lawlessness and is the one who will proclaim himself to be God or anything that is called God. The second beast, the false prophet, will be the one who will be performing those miracles, signs and wonders in order to authenticate the claim of the first beast as being God (2 Thes.2:9-12, Rev.13:13-14)

In conclusion, cross-referencing scripture and examining the context, is the best way to find out the answer to any Biblical concern, as the word of God is the source of all truth. That being said, I would stick with scripture and avoid the myriad of books, videos, web-sites or hearsay. And if you do consult those things, if they don't agree with scripture, then they should be thrown out as false teachings.

The Beast who:

Once was: He once was out in the world

Now is not: He is currently not in the world, but is in the Abyss

And yet will come: He is in the Abyss and will be coming back out of it

 

[Willie-T]

in the very beginning of REV..it plainly tells us what it is about....

REV.1:3. -
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things
which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

REV. 1:7.
Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him:
and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

this is a combination of the prophecies of Daniel and Zechariah, and, this is a continual Pattern
in the Book of Revelation....'a piece from here and a piece from there'.....
we have to be familiar with OT Prophecies to get the gist....

REV. 1:19, explains further...'Wright the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are,
and the things which shall be here-after'.... -clearly (3) spaces of time, 'past-present, and future'...
the introduction has the main 'clues' to the meaning...

wille, what you have said is 'partially correct', but does not give the 'whole picture' -

we both LOVE, AMERICAN PIE, it is such a good lesson in 'interpretation'.....it is amazing!!!

Yet we still jump funky and say things such as, Jesus didn't mean for the audience to whom He was speaking to understand "soon" and "this generation" as pertaining to them.... but, instead, to assume this meant 50+ generations from that date. (matt 24)

 

[NayborBear]

Rev. 12:1-9, methinks, tells of a "previous time"(earth age), while the remaining chapter, tells of this "current time" (earth age). Not so sure concerning "Heaven-Ages", though.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Think opposite of the True image....

Revelation 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; ...."


".........when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

 

[oldthennew]

willie,

there is a scripture that says, 'I speak to them in parables that they might not understand'...
another words, they DON'T HAVE EARS TO HEAR, which is a 'common trait'...

all these things were done for 'our example'....
all scripture is profitable'.....

we can't pick-and-choose how a certain set of scriptures apply to US TODAY, we have to
take the 'whole council of God on an Eternal Basis'....this is the way that He thinks.....
He thinks on an Eternal Basis, and not the WE TEND to THINK in our TIME.....

 

[Willie-T]

willie,

there is a scripture that says, 'I speak to them in parables that they might not understand'...
another words, they DON'T HAVE EARS TO HEAR, which is a 'common trait'...

all these things were done for 'our example'....
all scripture is profitable'.....

we can't pick-and-choose how a certain set of scriptures apply to US TODAY, we have to
take the 'whole council of God on an Eternal Basis'....this is the way that He thinks.....
He thinks on an Eternal Basis, and not the WE TEND to THINK in our TIME.....

Yep. Pretty much just what I have been saying.

 

[NayborBear]

what's important is that you are being LED to study the Holy Word of God,
this should tell you a lot....especially about yourself.....

you say that you are not 'sure' about your standing in Christ?

when anyone has a standing, calling, conversion, there is no DOUBT about what has happened....

and yes, God does and loves to 'boggle-our-minds'.......
when the Holy Spirit indwells us, we start on a brand-new journey that will blow anyone's mind.....

our first taste of our Creator and Saviour brings us to our knees and we find out what the meaning
of humility, thankfulness, and most of all, Holy intervention and Devine Love mean.....

my wife and I pray that your heart remains steadfast and that you seek your Father with all of your heart....

(here is a post I wrote a coupla days ago......so yes, when one is CONVICTED? It is "an EVENT", one NEVER forgots!)
And He PROVES it, to me, Every Moment of Every Day.

I was baptized at 13, and , a few years after that, walked away from the "church". That was a "few" years ago, and went into the "world", in a very PO'd state of mind.
Fast forward to some 20 years er so after that, after having heard a voice (in me head), from time to time, asking: "Are ya ready yet?", and, having either answered: "no?....not yet (having too much fun).", er sometimes not answering at all.....I was asked a question concerning my parents. Afterwards, going back to church, and not finding anymore answers to questions I had then I did when I was 15 years younger, I was sitting in my lazyboy one day after work, when, I can call it only a CONVICTION came upon me, and a voice (in me head) that said as it grabbed me by the short-hairs of my neck) " You've TRIED your way......NOW. YER GOING TO DO IT "MY"WAY!"....I YELLED: "YER GONNA HAFTA DRAG ME KICKING AND FIGHTING AND CLAWING, EVERY STEP OF THE WAY!!" The voice (in me head) smiled (well...I "sensed" it was smiling,anyways), and said: "GOOD!!!........Cuz THAT'S the way "I" likes 'em." T'wasn't long afterwards, I sent in to Moody's Bible Institute, for a "home school" course. As I was doing that first lesson, diagramming a book of the Bible (just happened(?) to be the book of Jonah),This voice (in me head), asked me: " You want "them" to teach you, or ya want "ME" to teach ya?"
That was some 30 years ago, er thereabouts.........

 

[oldthennew]

if you are to be believed, then this scripture would apply to you,

'for to be 'carnally minded' is death, but to be Spiritually Minded is Life and Peace'....

and again, 'I know nothing but Christ crucified'.....

you seem to be speaking out of both side of your mouth, sweet water and salt,
you seem to be un-grounded and searching for the ROCK.....

 

[Ahwatukee]

Yet we still jump funky and say things such as, Jesus didn't mean for the audience to whom He was speaking to understand "soon" and "this generation" as pertaining to them.... but, instead, to assume this meant 50+ generations from that date. (matt 24)

Hi Willie,

That is because when studying the scriptures, the reference to "Soon" does not have a date attached to it and by looking at the rest of the scriptures regarding the end, the idea is "immanency," that is, that his return is always about to happen, always looming, always on the horizon. As an example of this, many of the OT prophets said that the "Day of the Lord" was near or coming soon, yet 3500 years later, it is an event that is still to be fulfilled.

Regarding "this generation" anyone who implies that Jesus was referring to the generation from which he was speaking, needs to go back and take English 101 over again. For prior to Jesus saying "this generation" he tells of all the signs that must take place leading up to his return. Then he says, when you see the trees blossoming you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all off these signs taking place, then you know that the end is near, even at the door. Therefore, "this generation" would have to be the one where those signs begin to appear. By interpreting that Jesus was speaking of his generation where those signs would occur, it then takes the focus off the need to watch for the signs by forcing them into the generation from which Christ was speaking from. It is the signs that he spoke of as the way of knowing the end was near and not the forcing of those signs into his generation. If I was a person who heard Jesus say this, I wouldn't need to watch for signs and that because Jesus just told me that it would happen in the very generation the was living in and therefore, I would just wait for the generation to end.

Furthermore regarding those signs, none of them have yet been fulfilled. Those who believe that Jesus was stating that those signs would take place in his generation have to force them as being fulfilled. Regarding this, there is no biblical or historical record of that ruler making a seven year covenant and setting up the abomination in the temple from the time that Jesus spoke it till the destruction of the temple, which means that there has been no fulfillment. You also don't have any fulfillment of the other judgments of wrath associated during the time when the abomination is set up, like the sun being darkened and the moon not giving its light and the stars falling from heaven to earth, which take place some time after the abomination is set up. Not only that, but the revealing of the antichrist is directly related to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom, which takes place seven years after that ruler makes his covenant with many. The Amils and the preterists get around this fact by claiming that Jesus has already come, that everything was fulfilled at the destruction of the temple and that we are now living in the millennial period. Those who hold to this teaching have no idea of the magnitude of wrath and utter destruction that will be coming upon this earth once the church has been removed and that man of lawlessness is revealed.