Amillennialism

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#41
I believe in option 1 ... That conforms with the Book of Revelation..
Don't you love Amillenialism? All the world wars, all the genocides, all the ISIS atrocities (to name a few choice items of major evils) have all happened while the Millennium has existed. And this does not bother anyone in this camp.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
3,194
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#42
Since Revelation is prophetic, and God and Christ know the end from the beginning, Jesus was fully aware of what would be revealed to John after His resurrection and for the book of Revelation. However, He would not disclose anything prematurely, so He did not mention the seals in the Olivet Discourse. Indeed it was only AFTER His resurrection and AFTER the aposltes received the Holy Spirit that He opened all the OT Scriptures to them. But even that would have been too early to speak about the future prophecies given to John.

In Luke 24:45-48 is this before he was slain?
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
2,855
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#43
Don't you love Amillenialism? All the world wars, all the genocides, all the ISIS atrocities (to name a few choice items of major evils) have all happened while the Millennium has existed. And this does not bother anyone in this camp.
Amillenialism was introduced as a doctrine that would support the rule of the Roman catholic church as the saints ruling the world with Jesus well since the time of the start of the church till the Day of judgement... The reformation freed a lot of people from the catholic church but sadly many of them took some of the doctrines of the catholic church along with them into their new denominations..
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
3,194
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#45
but not until after Revelation 5:9 correct if so you see the Revelation began to be given prior to Acts 1,2,3.ect.?
 
Aug 7, 2016
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#46
So if you want your name tag it would read "postmillenialist".

As Angela stated,i don't think a firm understanding or stance on eschatology is needed for salvation.

However from my research and rereading of the Bible countless times. Along with other factors. Anillennialism makes the most sense to me. However it's not one I will break fellowship with others over.....no only do that when they start making personal attacks and tell me how stupid I am,
My name tag believing that everything happend already would be called postmillenialist?

People look at me weirdly because they all like you is a hairy tick, at least some have on here have said once before anyway lol.

But yes you're right salvation resides in the Lord Jesus Christ alone by faith.

It doesn't matter how someone views the end times Sister Ariel. I agree with you 100%



God bless all of you.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
6,994
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#47
In light of what you say,,,in Revelation 5:9 did Jesus mention any of he things that were sealed in Matthew 24.Mark 13. Luke 21 ect.?
Hello iamsoandso,

None of seals, trumpets or bowls have yet begun. The first seal rider on the white horse, is a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse revealed in Rev.19:11-21, which is representing the Lord when He returns to the earth to end the age.

In the Olivet Discourse Matt.24:15, Jesus quotes Daniel saying "when you see the abomination spoken of by the prophet Daniel standing in the holy place" this marks the middle of the seven years specified in Dan.9:27, with Matt.24:30-31 representing the end of that seven years. Prior to Matt.24:15, is representing the first 3 1/2 years of the seven year period. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will take place within that seven year period, with the opening of the first seal representing the revealing of the antichrist. At the fourth seal, Death and Hades are given power over a fourth of the earth to kill a fourth of mankind, which based on today's population would be over 1.7 seven billion people. Needless to say, we have not seen any fatalities on this scale and that within the first 3 1/2 years.


Second Seal/Rider on the red horse (Peace taken from the earth)

Matt.24:7 - Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.

Rev.6:3 - Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other.

Third Seal/Rider on the Black Horse (Famine)

Matt.24:3 - There will be famines and earthquakes in various places

Rev.6:5-6 - Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds of wheat for a day’s wages, and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

The first seal has not yet been opened, but will be represented by that rider on the white horse which is symbolically representing the antichrist. Since the seals are also apart of God's wrath, and the church is not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, then the first seal could not have yet been opened, because it would mean that the church would currently being going through the time of God's wrath. But as you can see God's wrath hasn't even begun because there has been no fulfilment of it and that because the church is still here. God's wrath will not begin until after the church has been gathered.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
8,901
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#48
If it was only a question of a "different view", then we could say those are differences of opinion. When when LARGE SWATHES of Scripture are deliberately misinterpreted and/or ignored, that actually boils down to unbelief. God gave detailed covenants to Abraham (reiterated to Isaac and Jacob) as well as to David. Those covenants must either be taken as immutable or dismissed as non-binding. And the Amillennialists, Preterists and Replacement Theology proponents have done just that.
Not all prophecies must be viewed physically. Scripture must be taken spiritually.

Let's take the idea that the second coming of Christ ALREADY occurred in AD 70. If that were really true, then according to Bible revelation we should already be living in the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness". But when we look all around us, and go back through history until the first century, we see that that claim is TOTALLY ABSURD. For Christ to be literally ruling on earth and the enemies of Christ to be prospering on earth at the same time can only be classified as fantasy. Yet this is what is being taught by many today. They even say that "Paradise has been restored now".



What is the Preterist View? | International Preterist Association

They even have an International Preterist Association to promote these absurdities. Just like the Flat Earth Society!
Amilleniallism is not preterism.

Amillenialism is a view that we are in the millenium now, 1000 years is a symbol of a perfect timing/span.

Second coming will occur after all predestined people will be saved. So its not about the second coming in 70 AD.
 
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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
6,994
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#49
But yes you're right salvation resides in the Lord Jesus Christ alone by faith.
Having faith in Jesus Christ also means believing in His word, and that is something that you are not doing, but are preaching a different gospel. As I said, if all we need to know is Jesus Christ crucified, buried and resurrected, then let's just make it a one page book, because the rest of what is written doesn't matter according to your thinking?

He made promises to the church, specifically that he was going to the Father's house in heaven to prepare places for us:

"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am.

Below are the details of the church being gathered:

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

Paul referred to the appearing of the Lord and our being gathered to Him as demonstrated below:

"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men. It instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives in the present age, as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."


We're not awaiting the appearing of the antichrist and the wrath of God, but the appearing of our Lord and our being gathered to Him.

It does matter, because what you are teachings is false. You blatantly ignore the clear teaching of scripture when presented in order to contend with those teachings. You say you believe in the Lord, but you reject his word for the teachings of preterism.


You teach that all end-time events have already place and that the resurrection has already taken place and that Christ has already returned. Because of this, you are guilty of the following:


"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll."

The book or Revelation is about the future, leading all the way up to the eternal state, with the majority focusing on the time of God's wrath, which hasn't taken place yet, and which you teach has already happened. This could be considered adding to or taking away from the prophesies in the book of Revelation.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
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#50
Found this article after searching for the Word "chilism"

Just skimmed it but I found his observation of the three main eschatology positions to be accurate so will most likely read in more depth when God grants me time.

Why I Believe Eschatology the Way I Do

. These variations will determine what kind of a Pre-millennialist, Post-millennialist, or Amillennialist that a person is.

In spite of all the differences in these three views, there are also some important similarities that each view holds in common. These similarities are as follows:
1. Each view accepts all scripture as the inspired word of God; therefore, each professes their view to be based upon Biblical teachings.
2. Each view teaches that there will be a future, visible, and bodily return of Christ.
3. Each view believes that Jesus Christ is the promised Son of God, that He is God, and that He died as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
4. Each view holds that every human being will at some time receive a resurrected body which will live eternally in either Heaven or Hell.
5. Each view holds that the difference in belief comes from the lack of ability to interpret the Bible properly rather than from a lack of loyalty to the Bible.
6. Each view acknowledges that the other views are held by able conservative and evangelical scholars.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
849
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#51
I'm of the thought that non of these positions (Pre trib/ post trib/ mid trib) is true. There will be no mass rapture. Rapture is individualistic and it has been happening since 2000 years ago (End times). A bad accident, some are injured some die but a few or one person escapes- to me this is rapture because we see the great tribulation as described in Revelation 6 are not some peculiar events. They are normal events and people will just blend in without knowing they are in the great tribulation. The deaths through wars (sword), famines (natural disasters), pestilences (diseases), world beasts (animals/ machinery). The great tribulation is just a way of harvesting but it's the times that make it dangerous (End times).

The return of Jesus is also not a physical event IMO, He returns as the kingdom of God which comes not with physical signs but grows as men are being added one at a time.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
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#52
Quotes from some of the articles I posted earlier......

the Hebrew word “olam,” translated “everlasting,” is equivalent to the Greek phrase “eis ton aiona,” which literally means “unto the age” and is an undefined period, meaning “throughout the age” to which it refers.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
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#53
When a doctrine is based upon the idea that the kingdom that God promised has not yet been established, but God’s Word plainly teaches that it has, we need go no farther to show that the doctrine is false. Mark 9:1 says, “And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power.” Since it is evident that none of them are still living, the kingdom has come with power.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
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#54
Galatians 3: 16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds ," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
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#55
I reread the first article and must say I disagree that the Abrahamic covenant wasn't eternal and forever. I believe it is forever fulfilled in Christ for the promise was not made to many seeds but One seed, Christ Jesus.

I know some people will disagree but it doesn't change what scripture says.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
5,590
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#56
If what you are asking is whether there is a correspondence between the Olivet Discourse and the seven seals of Revelation, I would say that for the first five seals there is clearly a correspondence. Which means that the events and prophecies of seals 1 to 5 began to be fulfilled from the first century and have continued being fulfilled even to this date. The severity and frequency of earthquakes is a good example -- "...and earthquakes, in divers places..." (Mt 24:7).

Many Futurists believe the at the seals will be opened only after the Antichrist appears, but we can clearly see correspondence until the 6th seal. The 6th and 7th seal are yet future.
I would offer I think we should be very careful on how we hear God aright. Change the meaning of one word it is enough to change the author of Scriptures intent. We are commanded not to do so. (Deuteronomy 4:3)

Big difference between the three different words “signs“, wonders” and “miracles”. The context surrounding them helps give us the meaning that is sometimes hid.

The only place they are found in a common verse is Hebrews 2:4, and yet they are found individually in many places in the New Testament and the Old as a sign for the rebellious who will not get under prophecy, the one source of the faith of God. .
The antichrists were already here as those who denied Christ has come in the flesh, it marked the beginning of the last days as the unknown amount of time signified by the word thousand in that parable found in Revelation 20

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Christ had already said to those who opposed him that it’s an evil generation (natural man )that seek after a signs and wonders gospel that the last sign as a wonder or source of faith of future prophecy had already been given and fulfilled in the appearing of Christ..

It was sign of observance he was not speaking of something men are to seek after. He was saying things will go like normal and then the end would come. a reflection of the time of Noah things going on as since the beginning, the hearts of men as a false source of faith were evil constantly. Big difference between sign for observing and signs as wonders that men seek after.Like day and night.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.



Next we look at the term "wonders" (teras). Here is "something strange, caus*ing the beholder to marvel" (Vine). In the New Testament this word is always in the plural, and is used almost exclusively in connection with "signs." In "wonders," the supernatural act itself is looked upon as something that startles and produces amazement. The "wonder" itself is the center of attention, "and not" necessarily that to which it points. Herein is the fun*damental difference between a "sign" and a "wonder." The thought conveyed by this word is often blended with the idea of "to marvel," from the verb thaumazo. This is the word Paul used in Galatians 1:6 in speaking of his amazement at the rapid departure of the Galatians from the gospel. Teras "denotes terrible ap*pearances which elicit fright and horror, and which contradict the ordered unity of nature" (Dictionary of New Testa*ment Theology, Brown, p. 633).


2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the "working of Satan" with all power and signs and "lying wonders",

I would offer no where in the scriptures will you find the commandment to seek after a sign as a wonder .or you will find a lying one. the kind the Holy Spirit sends a strong delusion so ar person can keep on seeking after the things seen or walking by sight. There is nothing positive in seeking after a signs and wonders gospel

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.


Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:


Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
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#57
Nehemiah6, you are confusing Judah with Israel. The Babylonian captivity was Judah only. The nation that today calls itself Israel has no right to that name, and they should know it. The last time it was used properly was in 722 BC, before Assyria carried the 10 Northern tribes away captive. I guess they figured the name was up for grabs (Satan's idea, I'm sure). God knows where they are even if they don't know themselves. He always separates Judah from Israel in prophecy.

You are totally right about God dealing with physical Israel differently than the spiritual Israel (the Church of Christ). Do not look at Judah occupying the mid-east as Israel's return. Go back and look at all the prophecy: being sure to separate Judah from Israel. :rolleyes:

John 8


39They answered him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them,
“If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did,40but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did.41You are doing the works your father did.”

They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”

42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.43Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.44You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.45But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.46Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?47Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”
*****

how can people promote supporting a nation that denies that JESUS is their Messiah?

JESUS tells us what HE thought of those who denied the truth He spoke in His time. He told them that NEITHER GOD NOR Abraham were their True father.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
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#58
not sure if i agree or understand your usage of the word 'parable" garee. could you define it?

I would have used the words symbolic, or hidden spiritual knowledge in reference to Revelation. Never heard to it as referred to as a "parable" before.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
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#59
Not all prophecies must be viewed physically. Scripture must be taken spiritually.



Amilleniallism is not preterism.

Amillenialism is a view that we are in the millenium now, 1000 years is a symbol of a perfect timing/span.

Second coming will occur after all predestined people will be saved. So its not about the second coming in 70 AD.

a loving person would learn what someone believes before speaking, but folks would rather be clanging cymbals.

for the record Amillenialist still await the second coming of Christ and His establishment of the NEW Heaven and NEW Earth and the resurrection of saints where we will be given NEW bodies. ..... so a lot of what is posted just sounds like clanging cymbals to me.

will go back to reading the thread now.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
4,885
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#60



John 8


39They answered him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them,
“If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did,40but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did.41You are doing the works your father did.”

They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.”

42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.43Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word.44You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.45But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.46Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?47Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”
*****

how can people promote supporting a nation that denies that JESUS is their Messiah?

JESUS tells us what HE thought of those who denied the truth He spoke in His time. He told them that NEITHER GOD NOR Abraham were their True father.
It NEVER works out well for those people and Nations the Lord uses to judge the Jews and Israel. Paul goes into great detail in saying God is not done with Israel, and warns gentile believers not think of themselves as all that and a bag of chips.

25 [FONT=&quot]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, LEST YOU SHOULD BE WISE IN YOUR OWN OPINION, that blindness in part has happened to Israel ​UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.[/FONT]