Another Question about Jesus

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SeekingJC

Guest
#1
#1
Many Christians believe that Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and God are all a part of one God. So my question is this: Why in scripture does Jesus call out and refer to his Father as if He was separate from Jesus multiple times. He also makes reference to things that only His Father knows but Jesus does not. Is there a rational explanation for it? I'm looking for something based in scripture not speculation please. Thanks!
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#2
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#2
For our benefit. How can a finite man comprehend an infinite God? Even with the Holy Spirit it is difficult to see how God could set aside His glory and take a body like unto mortal man. But then God is God and we are not. How does God Who is eternal operate in time? How does God descend to our level? One way is to reveal no more about Himself than we can understand.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
J

jerusalem

Guest
#3
#3
you just gave it
 
S

SeekingJC

Guest
#4
#4
Huh??? For our benefit makes no sense. And the "for reasons our finite minds can't understand" frankly seems like a cop out. That phrase can explain away everything and anything someone doesn't know the answer to. Don't you ever question things like this? I have a naturally inquisitive mind and pretty decent attention to detail which God gave me to use I suspect.

Let me rephrase the question I think Jesus claimed to be God can someone share some verses I'm not sure where they are that actually may clear it up for me now that I think about it.

Thanks
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#5
Aug 28, 2012
19,215
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#5
Rational explanation? No i am afraid not, some spiritual things are just not possible for the rational or any mind to comprehend. But just because we cannot understand it does not make it unreal or not true. This is why it takes faith, we trust God because we ourselves can only understand so much.
 
P

Powemm

Guest
#6
#6
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

Jesus is the word of God..
 
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Powemm

Guest
#7
#7
the Holy Spirit is the communication between God and Jesus who lives in Us ..
 
J

jinx

Guest
#8
#8
The HOLY SPIRIT is the SPIRIT of GOD. GOD is a SPIRIT (john 4:24) and GOD is also HOLY, thus-- HOLY SPIRIT.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#9
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
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#9
John 1:1-5,14
[SUP]1[/SUP]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 
M

Michael50

Banned
#10
May 24, 2013
682
10
0
#10
SeekingJC said:
Huh??? For our benefit makes no sense. And the "for reasons our finite minds can't understand" frankly seems like a cop out. That phrase can explain away everything and anything someone doesn't know the answer to. Don't you ever question things like this? I have a naturally inquisitive mind and pretty decent attention to detail which God gave me to use I suspect.

Let me rephrase the question I think Jesus claimed to be God can someone share some verses I'm not sure where they are that actually may clear it up for me now that I think about it.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Here:

Exodus 3:14 "I AM" is the Name of God.

John 8:58 Jesus declared He was the self-existent One-the "I AM" , that He existed before Abraham.

Luke 5:20-24 Jesus forgave sin. Only God can do that.

Hebrews 1:5-9 The Father addresses the Son as God.

Isaiah 9:6 Jesus is everlasting and eternal

Micah 5:2 Christ's goings forth have been from everlasting.

Phil 2:5-12 Jesus volutarily gives up His Divine priviledge to become our Savior.

Matthew 1:23 Immanuel "God is with us."

John 17:5,24 Jesus existed with the Father before the foundation of this world.

Hope that helps.
 
follower2

follower2

Banned
#11
May 5, 2013
161
0
0
#11
Ah man, I just read it the other day and now I cant find it, why do I bother reading?
He is talking to Nicodemus, and he tells him that HE IS God.

but I also just found this.
[SUP]John: 14:[/SUP][SUP]11 [/SUP]Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the sake of the [very] works themselves. [If you cannot trust Me, at least let these works that I do in My Father’s name convince you.]
 
P

Powemm

Guest
#12
#12
Have you had this discussion with God one on one? asking the Holy spirit to bring you understanding in this ?
I would like to encourage you in doing so if not .. I will also pray for you in this with a confidence God will reveal His knowledge to you as "He wishes" you to come to know it ..
Blessing to you in this :)
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#13
Nov 24, 2012
30,708
3,650
113
#13
SeekingJC said:
Many Christians believe that Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and God are all a part of one God. So my question is this: Why in scripture does Jesus call out and refer to his Father as if He was separate from Jesus multiple times. He also makes reference to things that only His Father knows but Jesus does not. Is there a rational explanation for it? I'm looking for something based in scripture not speculation please. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Let me just say your question reveals a lack of basics.
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not part of God, each are fully God.
There's lot's about God we don't know but that much we do.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#14
#14
ANOTHER Trinity thread........how many are there now, I've lost count!
 
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SeekingJC

Guest
#15
#15
Thank you all. I just want to clarify I don't doubt for a second Jesus' divinity I just was looking for clarification. Love you guys thanks for the assist. He's been working some wonders in my life that are beyond words. I just have questions that I know need to be ironed out :). Blain I'm glad your okay was praying for you and the people in your area. Hattie sorry I mistyped a bit I know they are all fully God. Just was trying to figure out why God would basically say "God why have you forsaken me?" Which is really saying God why have you forsaken God right? That's where my confusion is.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
#17
#17
SeekingJC said:
423 give or take but read its not really about the trinity....
Click to expand...
423 give or take...lol......actually it is about The Trinity. You have to understand that it is somewhat a mystery and so many discussions on the subject are proof. I was confused about it is well, just believe what Scripture says:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(Jesus), and the Word(Jesus)was with God, and the Word(Jesus)was God.
Joh 1:2 He(Jesus)was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him(Jesus), and without Him(Jesus)nothing was made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word(Jesus)became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.


Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me(Jesus)together with Yourself, with the glory which I(Jesus)had with You before the world was.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
although they are one, does not mean they are one being, I like to think of The Trinity as like fire, for fire to be fire there has to be Fuel, Oxygen and Heat, one does not operate without the other.
 
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Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#18
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,947
113
#18
notuptome said:
For our benefit. How can a finite man comprehend an infinite God? Even with the Holy Spirit it is difficult to see how God could set aside His glory and take a body like unto mortal man. But then God is God and we are not. How does God Who is eternal operate in time? How does God descend to our level? One way is to reveal no more about Himself than we can understand.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
Roger, I read your puzzlement about time. Here is something I read in a theology book that really seemed to make the picture a lot clearer.

"God is eternal. He is faithfully present throughout time. The experience of faith means we ought not to conceive of God's eternality as timeless impassibility, but omnipresent with regard to time. God is present in all time, and therefore, all time is present to God.

Our human experience of the temporal sequence provides insight into how we may understand God's relationship to time. Time is divided into three aspects - past, present and future. We have a limited sense of time - some sense of the past and present. The past is limited to memory and the future through anticipation or hope. We only know what lies in the present. Therefore we live in the present.

However, the present is a continually moving point, which appears to travel with us through the temporal sequence. This vanishing present forms a bridge between the past we remember and the future we anticipate.

One important difference sets God's knowing apart from ours. Our immediate knowledge is finite. It is limited by both the finite "present" and by our finite capability to draw even events transpiring in our present into our perception.

God's cognition or knowledge, in contrast, is infinite. He is immediately and simultaneously knowing or cognizant of all events as themselves -whether in the past, the present or the future. In this sense, God is eternal with respect to creaturely time.

As a result of this difference, we ought to view our cognition in the light of God's. Through our "present" we participate in a finite manner in what for God is perfect and complete knowledge of the whole of the temporal reality."

Hope that wasn't too long winded and makes sense. By the way, I learned about the "temporal reality" on Star Trek. LOL
 
B

Bistabuster

Guest
#19
#19
SeekingJC said:
Huh??? For our benefit makes no sense. And the "for reasons our finite minds can't understand" frankly seems like a cop out. That phrase can explain away everything and anything someone doesn't know the answer to. Don't you ever question things like this? I have a naturally inquisitive mind and pretty decent attention to detail which God gave me to use I suspect.

Let me rephrase the question I think Jesus claimed to be God can someone share some verses I'm not sure where they are that actually may clear it up for me now that I think about it.

Thanks
Click to expand...
How about this one. Jesus: The First and the Last - YouTube
 
S

Skinski7

Banned
#20
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#20
SeekingJC said:
Many Christians believe that Jesus, The Holy Spirit, and God are all a part of one God. So my question is this: Why in scripture does Jesus call out and refer to his Father as if He was separate from Jesus multiple times. He also makes reference to things that only His Father knows but Jesus does not. Is there a rational explanation for it? I'm looking for something based in scripture not speculation please. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Jesus is the image of God manifest to us. God is spirit and thus cannot be seen whilst the Word is the expression of God to His Creation.

I picture it like sunlight is to the sun.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Jesus is "begotten" and "not made" which means He springs forth out of God as opposed to being a creation of God.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh.


When the Word became flesh He was subservient to the Spirit of God and thus all He did was by the Spirit. Jesus served the Father whom is Spirit. He LEARNED obedience in order to be as one of us.

Jesus was only subservient to the Father when in human form.
 
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